Those with Boss IM and 90mm TB Come In

[VETTEHUNTER]

Those you guys running this combo….. What are your impressions. Im about to pull the trigger on the BBK 90mm and have been researching all day and am getting mostly one-sided results (for the better), but there are still a few that say that the TB is a waste of money. I wanna be sure the $500 bucks will get me SOMETHING.

I realize that the TB will do nothing when it comes to peak gains…I'm concerned with low-mid range power (area where we sacrifice going with a Boss) …I saw a dyno sheet where a guy picked up a consistent 15-20 in the midrange.

I didn't notice much loss of torque, if any, in the mid-range when I installed the Boss, but I attribute that to my 3.73's.

At this point, it either the TB or a set of Pypes LT's….. Headers are the wiser choice from a power standpoint, but I think the 2 mods (90mm TB and LT's) would compliment each other in the long run…Unfortunately its one or the other for right now.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks :beer:

Mike

 

[Dizzyscure1]

op:

 

[lovebread]

I guess I can chime in with my 84.5/302 manifold combo. The accufab TB reacts so fast that any choppyness during street/parking lot crawling is due to me not being used to a heavy clutch. Never tried the stock TB with my setup so I don't have much to compare it to, but I figured it would help down the line with FI.

 

[4VFTW]

LT's > TB

 

[VETTEHUNTER]

LT's > TB

Lol….Thats an easy one. I know they are a much better bang for the buck…Not arguing that. I guess what I'm really asking here is…if I was able to do both, would the 90mm benefit me with the Boss IM?

 

[Blazer707@TBR]

I personally liked the accufab TB, it felt smoother and SOTP felt better. I can not say for sure if it helped any but the feeling was better.

 

[achamb7]

I have the 90 mm with a Boss IM. Having some issues with the computer pulling timing, so I sent my datalogs along with a mod list to Shaun at AED. He suggested I check the car with the stock TB to see if the BBK was the issue. Although this did not affect the timing being pulled, the car drives MUCH better than it did before. Throttle response is improved, and drivability is better. IMO, you should spend $550 elsewhere, like on LT's, as another poster already stated.

 

[Grabber2012]

Well I didn't see this in your mod list but I'd buy a 1-piece driveshaft with the money,probably gain more power from it than a TB, less of a headache than headers!

 

[Dizzyscure1]

Why the hell did FRPP make a 90mm TB and the IMs opening isn't 90mm if I'm correct. Why are these companies making TBs for the coyote/road runner and making it difficult for tuners to tune them or maybe not giving them whatever is need to make it simpler to tune? I mean I've been told something to tune of no FILE for the FRPP 90mm TB what's that mean, like no base tune for the tuner to fine tune?? If the CJ setups are gaining all this hp so say because of the larger TB then it would lead me to think that a 85-90mm would do something similar for us Boss fellas!? Idk, lots of questions on the whole TB subject, sorry if I get ur thread off topic or down a whole other path.

 

[VETTEHUNTER]

Why the hell did FRPP make a 90mm TB and the IMs opening isn't 90mm if I'm correct. Why are these companies making TBs for the coyote/road runner and making it difficult for tuners to tune them or maybe not giving them whatever is need to make it simpler to tune? I mean I've been told something to tune of no FILE for the FRPP 90mm TB what's that mean, like no base tune for the tuner to fine tune?? If the CJ setups are gaining all this hp so say because of the larger TB then it would lead me to think that a 85-90mm would do something similar for us Boss fellas!? Idk, lots of questions on the whole TB subject, sorry if I get ur thread off topic or down a whole other path.

Well that was my exact thinking. The CJ has showed us that these motors can use the air that the CJ is able to provide via the wide-mouth inlet and 4-5" CAI's….. If you were to attempt to apply the same logic to the Boss, seems the only way to do it would by using the largest TB available (90mm), and the widest bore CAI possible to feed it…..It seems the problem is, the Boss is restricted by its 84mm inlet…..Putting a 90mm TB on an 84mm inlet limits its potential.
Of course the first thing that comes to mind to combat this issue is to open up the Boss inlet by porting it….problem is, the lack of material present in the area where it would need to ported….Looks like we may be SOL.

 

[VETTEHUNTER]

Thanks for all the input so far guys.

 

[SCalla1384]

Well that was my exact thinking. The CJ has showed us that these motors can use the air that the CJ is able to provide via the wide-mouth inlet and 4-5" CAI's….. If you were to attempt to apply the same logic to the Boss, seems the only way to do it would by using the largest TB available (90mm), and the widest bore CAI possible to feed it…..It seems the problem is, the Boss is restricted by its 84mm inlet…..Putting a 90mm TB on an 84mm inlet limits its potential.
Of course the first thing that comes to mind to combat this issue is to open up the Boss inlet by porting it….problem is, the lack of material present in the area where it would need to ported….Looks like we may be SOL.

I was planning on doing something very similar. I really wanted to make a max effort setup boss intake. I understand the CJ makes more hp. But most people are going from an untouched boss intake, stock throttle body and an off the shelf JLT (worst intake because how bad it necks down at the throttle body) or airaid etc... Going to a smoothed runner CJ, big monoblade and a massive 5" intake. Really not an apples to apples comparison.

I had smoothed out the runners on my boss intake. I dynod 419rwhp. Added a lightened steel flywheel and smoothed runners on boss intake and made 430rwhp. Then I would get a random misfire code (from swapping the clutch) Shaun @ AED told me I HAVE to get a neutral profile relearn. Even though it took me 4 times before finding a dealer that wasn't full of morons, one was able to so it.

I had sent Shaun logs of my dyno pull after the flywheel/smoothed runners. He sent me a tune with adjusted MAF curve and added 1 degree of timing.

So with the neutral relearn and new tune I dynod again and made 450rwhp. I loaded the old tune that I used when I made 430rwhp and made 445rwhp. Shaun said he too lost 15-20rwhp (or gained) after having a neutral profile relearn done.

ANYWAYS, so the boss picks up big with smoothed runners. I wanted to open the intake side up. Plan was to open it up as much as possible. Using a micrometer it looks like it can open to about 85-86mm. Wanted to do that, with a 90mm throttle body and a custom 4.5" cold air intake. Velocity/speed will help flow. Not all about just matching the TB to the inlet and cold air intake to the TB.

Shaun told me 90mm TB are a mofo to tune with and have drivability issues. So I said **** it then. Worth opening up the intake as much as possible, running an accufab 84.5mm TB and a 4.5" intake. But, 4.5" is about 115mm. Really, it's just way to oversize for only an 84.5mm throttle body. The airaid from what Shaun said at no point is smaller then 90mm.

I still do plan on opening up the inlet side of the boss intake and dynoing. Then adding a accufab 84.5mm throttle body and dynoing again to compare that vs stock TB. Would a 4.5" intake be worth it on that setup? Most likely not. I'd like to test it to find out, but I'm confident that Shaun knows what he's doing lol. So I'll most likely skip out on the 4.5" intake and just run the airaid.

 

[SCalla1384]

Btw this is going from boss intake to smoothed runners, lightened steel clutch, neutral profile relearn, and tune (old tune with that setup was 445rwhp) so gains were actually more like 25rwhp on same tune

This 430rwhp (smoothed runners) then getting a neutral profile relearn and the tune , again tune was worth 5rwhp

Looking at those pulls they look VERY similar. I don't think it was a dyno glitch because EJR dynod the same that day as he did a couple months ago. And a catback only GT made 378rwhp same day. So maybe the random misfire was actually causing the car to lose power somewhere where the logs couldn't show it?

So you can tell just smoothing and barely opening up the ports on the boss intake helps well. My buddy EJR gained 12rwhp with a aluminum flywheel. Mine is 7lbs heavier. So I'd say at most the flywheel was worth 10rwhp. Smoothed runners was most likely worth upwards of 15rwhp.

 

[Grabber2012]

Damn 12rwhp from just an aluminum flywheel?! Nice #s btw when you say smooth the runners is there casting ribs or flash running down the runners?

 

[SCalla1384]

Yah that's what he picked up. Maybe he can chime in. His clutch assembly dropped 12lbs with alum flywheel. Mine with lightened steel flywheel (same clutch) was 7lbs heavier.

This is how the finished ports look before polish

Reduced the injector boss as much as I felt comfortable with. Corner triangular pieces were fully taken out. And opened up the port just a tiny bit. Really not much at all. More so just smoothed it out

 

[Grabber2012]

Yah that's what he picked up. Maybe he can chime in. His clutch assembly dropped 12lbs with alum flywheel. Mine with lightened steel flywheel (same clutch) was 7lbs heavier.

This is how the finished ports look before polish

Reduced the injector boss as much as I felt comfortable with. Corner triangular pieces were fully taken out. And opened up the port just a tiny bit. Really not much at all. More so just smoothed it out

Ok thanks for the pic I've heard most of the flow is removing material around the injector boss. Btw how much of a difference was it when you put in the aluminum driveshaft?

 

[SCalla1384]

Yeah, that and getting the runners as smooth as possible. Drew (01bluesnake) does excellent port work. I almost had him do it, but I figured I'd try it out. My gains were great, but Drew gets them to look smoother haha.

And so you mean rwhp wise or ass dyno wise? I never did a before/after Dyno. It felt alittle snappier. But I can't tell a difference between picking up 5 or 25rwhp. I think most of it is mental. Car feels fast on a cold day vs a hot day. So it's hard to tell "oh it feels 20whp faster" lol

 

[Grabber2012]

Yeah not really worried so much about power from the driveshaft, more feel as far as the motor revving easier and taking the unneeded stress off the motor from the 2-piece factory monster.

 

[VETTEHUNTER]

I still do plan on opening up the inlet side of the boss intake and dynoing. Then adding a accufab 84.5mm throttle body and dynoing again to compare that vs stock TB. Would a 4.5" intake be worth it on that setup? Most likely not. I'd like to test it to find out, but I'm confident that Shaun knows what he's doing lol. So I'll most likely skip out on the 4.5" intake and just run the airaid.

So you're saying you are confident you can open up the inlet a couple mm without sacrificing integrity….I'll have to pull my TB off and get another look, but I thought for sure there wasn't much material there that could be removed without it weakening the inlet.

 

[VETTEHUNTER]

Yah that's what he picked up. Maybe he can chime in. His clutch assembly dropped 12lbs with alum flywheel. Mine with lightened steel flywheel (same clutch) was 7lbs heavier.

This is how the finished ports look before polish

Reduced the injector boss as much as I felt comfortable with. Corner triangular pieces were fully taken out. And opened up the port just a tiny bit. Really not much at all. More so just smoothed it out

What kind of bit did you use to remove the material?…..and what did you use to clean them up?

Thanks for the great posts….. I guess I just can't stop from thinking that if there was power potential in opening/cleaning the runners, why would't Ford have done it on the CJ…… I have read a lot of threads where too much porting on the Boss hurts performance.