The JLT vs. Stock Airbox with AED tune results and discussion thread

[MikeLTDLX]

Ok, as I stated in the previous thread, it was not my night. I don't know what was up, but I could not get my act together. Bad shifts, bad launches, big time tire sway, poorly prepped track...whatever you can name, it happened. :shrug:

However, I knew that everyone was waiting on these results, so I kept plugging. I made 6 passes total. The first pass I launched, grabbed second too fast (grind), then missed third! Wonderful. I also lifted when I missed third and just threw in the towel. I lost that slip.

The second pass was going ok, until I had really bad tire sway...so I had to lift and pedal. I barely got into 4th.

Here is that pass:

Third pass was ok, but the 60 foot sucked.

Fourth pass and I had issues finding 4th (that was a first for me and it was certainly a WTF moment):

At this point I was frustrated enough to consider leaving. It was just not happening. However, I put on the JLT. I figured I could do no worse, and maybe I would get my night redeemed.

After installing the JLT, and a total of 46 minutes after the last pass, I made my first JLT run. The run was clean. 60 foot was 1.8 and the pass netted a 12.18 @ 112.93:

As it was late, and I was beat and had my 14 year old with me...and an hour and a half drive ahead of us, I went back around and got in line...where I sat for probably 25 minutes. 32 minutes later, I made my last pass. It was clean and the pass net me a 12.043 @ 114.74. Here is the slip:

Here is the video:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wwNarRd_70"]2012 Mustang GT 5.0 last run from No Problem Raceway, 3/7/12 - YouTube[/nomedia]



Ok, so this is where we sit. My best pass with the box is a 12.58 with a 112.98. That was a clean pass, with a weak 60 foot of 2.0. Corrected down it is 12.486 @ 113.84 a the DA was 827.

Best pass with the JLT was a 12.04 @ 114.74, corrected down it is 11.971 @ 115.384 with a 1.743 60 foot. This was my best pass ever, if you accepted corrected values.

The tune. I had 1 degree of global timing removed from both tunes (93 tune) because we had picked up some timing retard with the JLT on Tuesday. Shaun thought maybe it was hearing some knock, or there was "ghost knock". This did the trick as from what I have seen from the logs, commanded timing was followed and the knocks added enough to bring it back up to where it was supposed to be.

I sent Shaun the datalogs and he will be reviewing them today. I can take some screen shots if I can figure out how so people can see the runs.

One thing I noticed, I need a shift light. I was shifting past where I wanted to do. I did manage to pull 6400 and change on the big end, with my 3.31 and 26 inch tire combo. However, I do not think the 26 inch tire is optimum. I may try some tubes because apparently they will "stiffen" up the tires, and right now I have too much sway and had to run the pressures at 17 psi cold.

I said this in the other post, and I will say it here. I feel confident that the JLT made a difference. The car felt better, pulled harder out of the hole and just felt better throughout the pass. Shaun and I worked hard on the tune, and there was no issue with the tune not delivering. If anyone didn't deliver, it was me.

I will be out again and there will be a stage 2 of this test. The JLT is on my car, and will stay. I informed Jay that I will purchase the JLT as agreed. This was not a free part, and I have absolutely no vested interest in this part working.

Take it for what it is.

Mike

 

[99cobraUgotbit]

If thats your best time, then what you so upset about? I would be happy of I ran a 12 flat. But it is frustrating to waist a 1/4 pass and screw up cause I feel the same way. I see how mad you were with your first slip cause it looks wadded up lol

 

[Shaun@AED]

Logs are clean.
Same ignition, cam timing, shift points, A/F, and time between gears with the following exceptions:

1. Stock CAI 12.5 and 12.6 runs bogged off the line, JLT runs spun.
2. 12.5 Stock CAI run overspun 1st gear by 200rpm.
3. Stock CAI 12.6 run missed 4th and took .5 seconds to get back into the throttle, looks like that was after the 1/8th.

My critique of all runs.... Avg shift time (out of the throttle) is .35-.4 seconds per gear. That's 1-1.2 seconds of coasting time on every run. Seat time is needed.

 

[MikeLTDLX]

If thats your best time, then what you so upset about? I would be happy of I ran a 12 flat. But it is frustrating to waist a 1/4 pass and screw up cause I feel the same way. I see how mad you were with your first slip cause it looks wadded up lol

My best pass is an 11.97, which I did with the box a couple of weeks ago in good air. My corrected time with this 12 flat pass is better. Of course, that is bench racing stuff. LOL.

Mike

 

[AluminatorSnake]

Glad you feel that the intake works. There are always going to be nay-sayers for this car and CAI combo.

Shaun, do you feel the intake works as well?

 

[five.slow]

Logs are clean.
Same ignition, cam timing, shift points, A/F, and time between gears with the following exceptions:

1. Stock CAI 12.5 and 12.6 runs bogged off the line, JLT runs spun.
2. 12.5 Stock CAI run overspun 1st gear by 200rpm.
3. Stock CAI 12.6 run missed 4th and took .5 seconds to get back into the throttle, looks like that was after the 1/8th.

My critique of all runs.... Avg shift time (out of the throttle) is .35-.4 seconds per gear. That's 1-1.2 seconds of coasting time on every run. Seat time is needed.

lol sorry mike shaun just called you a crap driver... j/k lol

dude your car is moving out good job.

 

[TheCPE]

This is my analysis, some might find it useful others might not, either way I like crunching numbers and wanted to know the results for my own sake:

The data set is inconclusive, that happens. When you have lots of variables and this type of uncontrollable environment keeping them in check can be tough.

Thanks again for the effort however, don’t want to take anything away from the time and effort you put into this test.

Despite not having a data set to average and then do calculations on, I’ll use the two bests you mention that were both clean runs one with the JLT and one with the stock box.

Quick analysis just looking at the 60 foot, 1/8 et and mph and 1/4 et and mph in my opinion shows that that majority of the difference in the JLT and stock box runs was the 60 foot difference. At the 60 foot point you already had nearly 3/10s advantage with the JLT due to the much better launch. The benefits from that launch didn’t stop at the 60 foot mark however; most of the .541 difference was due to the 60 foot.

The time difference at the 1/8 mark was .469 and only another .07 improvement was made once you passed the 1/8 mark until you finished .541 quicker at the 1/4. The longer the run the less and less the good launch helped, hence the diminishing returns in the last half of the track. So looking at the two slips you cut .469 off your 1/8 time and then only another .07 off from 1/8 to 1/4. You would expect to see the larger portion of the gains from a hp increase in the first half of the track but not at a 7:1.

Because of the launch the last 1/8 will be more indicative of any power gains, so taking the trap and et at the 1/8 and 1/4 marks and using some change in kinetic energy equations the improvements amounts to a 5-7hp increase.

This is inconclusive however since there isn’t enough of a data set to be certain that these are representative results that after multiple runs could be repeated.

More testing would be great, and I’d still like to test with my GPS box, doubt that will happen though.

Thanks again for your effort!

 

[Tucker]

Great job with the testing Mike and tuning Shaun.

Thanks
Jay

 

[MikeLTDLX]

lol sorry mike shaun just called you a crap driver... j/k lol

dude your car is moving out good job.

I slowed down my shifts intentionally for three reasons:

1. The shock of the shifts was upsetting the tires. I almost crossed the line twice last night and the sway basically had me scared shitless. I really do not like the way these tires are performing;

2. Early on I was missing shifts, shifts I never miss...like 3rd to 4th. I figured I would rather have a clean pass with shifts that I did not miss, and not fear the wall, than blow shifts and wreck the car. I can powershift this car all day if I want. What I don't want to do is crash;

3. I have to rely on this car to make me to work, and to haul around my kids. While internet glory is sweet, taking the bus because I wasted the tranny sucks ass.

I can shift this car plenty fast:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhbOlSRlWBY&list=UUECPEzGAKEB4O9G3T-ImoFA&index=30&feature=plcp"]2012 Mustang GT 5.0 in-car with Roush axle back - YouTube[/nomedia]


Mike

 

[me32]

Looking at the time slips every run was within user error. There was no clear way to say the Cai help or not..its easier to get better at driving as the night goes on with no other changes. I had a bad driving night my self started doing 12.3s at 123mph but the end of the night I was back feeling good running 11.1 at 128mph with no changes to the car. I would like to see a more consistent runs. I hope these logs will.help shaun.

 

[Impetuous]

I can clearly see that the gains were due to the 60 ft drop. Anybody that knows about drag racing will tell you the same thing. Shaun mentioned that it bogged while on the stock cai and thats sometimes is worse than spinning the tires. Thats my view here, so the results don't look very conclusive IMHO. Once the car gets similar traction on both configurations then we will see a clearer picture.

Mike your efforts are greatly appreciated like I stated previously.

 

[JerryC]

Thanks for the effort.

IMHO this needs to be done on auto car with good tires to eliminate variables such as clutch slippage at launch, shift speed and traction issues both at launch and at shifts.

 

[mastwolf]

I'd be willing to do some unbiased testing.

I have an auto car.
I have a local track 30min away.
I have the ability to test with stock tune and with more aggressive tune (with only changes being for maf)
I also have a dyno to use. (I already have data from a bone stock 2011 Auto Car)

I'd just need an intake to do it with.


Chris

 

[SILV03MustangGT]

Just so everyone knows the deal was mike was going to buy the intake if he gained. im pretty sure he bought the intake. as far as testing yes there needs to be some more runs done. either way, im glad Shaun tunes my car and that mikey is putting in all the effort with the intake.

 

[xxbmxlsxx]

it might not have been the tires but that you got out of the groove. the sway your describing sounds alot like that to me. just a thought

 

[MikeLTDLX]

Just so everyone knows the deal was mike was going to buy the intake if he gained. im pretty sure he bought the intake. as far as testing yes there needs to be some more runs done. either way, im glad Shaun tunes my car and that mikey is putting in all the effort with the intake.

I did buy the intake. I felt it was beneficial. If you take the times at face value, I gained 4 tenths and almost 2 mph. Had the 60 foot times been identical, that would have been the case. I know better than that. I know the results prove nothing. But, here is something I also know. The car feels better, stronger to me with the JLT. I also enjoy the sound. Shaun has a tune that works and there is hard proof that I went no slower than before. So, I like the way it feels, I like the way it sounds, it is at least equally as quick. It is a win/win part. I hope soon to have a more conclusive result as well. I do agree that an auto would be 100% better. I am no Ronnie Sox, and I have only made 15 passes with this car, 12 on slicks. Still learning this beast.

it might not have been the tires but that you got out of the groove. the sway your describing sounds alot like that to me. just a thought

It has happened to me at two tracks. It is the old "ice skating" feeling. To get rid of it, I have to air up the tires. That means less hook.

Mike

 

[01bluesnake]

It has happened to me at two tracks. It is the old "ice skating" feeling. To get rid of it, I have to air up the tires. That means less hook.

Mike

The bigger problem is mixing a radial front tire with a bias slick out back. Has a tendency to allow the back to want to walk around and had caused many people to crash. You never want to mix radial bias combo although people do.

 

[tt54l32v]

I did buy the intake. I felt it was beneficial. If you take the times at face value, I gained 4 tenths and almost 2 mph. Had the 60 foot times been identical, that would have been the case. I know better than that. I know the results prove nothing. But, here is something I also know. The car feels better, stronger to me with the JLT. I also enjoy the sound. Shaun has a tune that works and there is hard proof that I went no slower than before. So, I like the way it feels, I like the way it sounds, it is at least equally as quick. It is a win/win part. I hope soon to have a more conclusive result as well. I do agree that an auto would be 100% better. I am no Ronnie Sox, and I have only made 15 passes with this car, 12 on slicks. Still learning this beast.



It has happened to me at two tracks. It is the old "ice skating" feeling. To get rid of it, I have to air up the tires. That means less hook.

Mike

Didnt you say the wind was blowing pretty hard. Might have been your sway right there. Plus it would prob help to do some bias ply front runners.

 

[MikeLTDLX]

Didnt you say the wind was blowing pretty hard. Might have been your sway right there. Plus it would prob help to do some bias ply front runners.

Yeah, there was like a 15 mph cross-wind blowing diagonally over the track. I am sure it did not help, but the sway has been here on two tracks.

Mike

 

[Z25OH]

awesome results...thanks for all your efforts mike and shaun



cliff notes: CAI works, always have, ..prob always will....ecu tunning in this motor is the speed bump!