The HARD TRUTH about EVs

[Lambeau]

It's surprising that passivation is not a part of the manufacturing process on those SST body panels. It's not hard, you can use vinegar if you need to.

Depends on the SS series and mfr doesn’t it?

My experience with passivation is series, and mfrs within the same series, can make a huge difference in the appearance after passivation.

One can have a satin appearance, the other is dark/smutty.

Both met free-iron spec IIRC.

Wonder what Delorian used?

 

[Weather Man]

The Green Insanity close to sparking some serious shit.

Exxon warns Europe must cut climate-related regulatory burden - FT​

Feb. 20, 2024 11:36 AM ETExxon Mobil Corporation (XOM) StockBy: Carl Surran, SA News Editor10 Comments

jetcityimage/iStock Editorial via Getty Images
Exxon Mobil (NYSE:XOM) warned it could withhold billions of dollars in climate-related investments in Europe unless the European Union cuts environmental red tape which the company blames for the "deindustrialization of the European economy," Financial Times reported Tuesday.
Exxon Mobil (XOM) executive Karen McKee told FT the company had set aside $20B for decarbonization projects during 2022-27 but likely would prioritize "other parts of the world" because of increasing frustration at the regulatory burden linked to getting projects off the ground in Europe.
The EU's ambitious climate-related regulations had a "very adverse impact" on businesses and had resulted in "slow and tortuous" procedures for permitting and accessing finance, McKee said in the interview.
"Recent developments in Europe have not instilled confidence in long-term predictable policies," McKee said.
The comments came as European leaders including French President macron and more than 70 industry executives meet in Antwerp in an attempt to pressure the EU to rethink industrial policy and support businesses struggling with implementing the bloc's Green Deal climate law that commits to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.

 

[andymarkv]

While I had rust on my rear axle as well I wouldnt say cars are automatically "disposable" up here due to rust. Just gotta take care of your own shit is all, I buy the gallon bucket and am good for a few years between my DD Raptor and wifes DD sedan.

I hear ya! I'm using Fluid Film now, but used Krown for years previously.
And as careful as I am...I always find a spot I missed and things get crusty quick.

Kind of funny...it seems a lot of the Cybertruck bitching is overly observant owners finally noticing "rail dust", which has been on all their other cars, they just never noticed.
Can you clay bar bare metal with a surface finish like stainless?

 

[Weather Man]

I hear ya! I'm using Fluid Film now, but used Krown for years previously.
And as careful as I am...I always find a spot I missed and things get crusty quick.

Kind of funny...it seems a lot of the Cybertruck bitching is overly observant owners finally noticing "rail dust", which has been on all their other cars, they just never noticed.
Can you clay bar bare metal with a surface finish like stainless?

I don't think its rail dust. Tesla advising truck owners to buff until gone.

Tesla claims to be using its own 30X alloy for the Cybertruck and most 30X grades do rust to varying degrees.

 

[Fat Boss]

Depends on the SS series and mfr doesn’t it?

My experience with passivation is series, and mfrs within the same series, can make a huge difference in the appearance after passivation.

One can have a satin appearance, the other is dark/smutty.

Both met free-iron spec IIRC.

Wonder what Delorian used?

I think it does depend on series. It's surprising that this many years after the DeLorean Tesla doesn't have it right out of the gates.

 

[Weather Man]

I think it does depend on series. It's surprising that this many years after the DeLorean Tesla doesn't have it right out of the gates.

There's a reason nobody followed after Delorean.

 

[Fat Boss]

There's a reason nobody followed after Delorean.

I thought the main reason is the gutless engine? My boss has a low mile DeLorean that he drives to work sometimes. It's a dog. His R8 V10+ is much more fun to ride in.

 

[Weather Man]

I thought the main reason is the gutless engine? My boss has a low mile DeLorean that he drives to work sometimes. It's a dog. His R8 V10+ is much more fun to ride in.

I think stainless proved to be a expensive nightmare to work with.

 

[Fat Boss]

I think stainless proved to be a expensive nightmare to work with.

It's not surprising. When I was a machinist it was a nightmare. We made a part out of 3/4" water jet cut plate that got 3D machined for about 11 hours then it was my job to sand it with the air sander for about 6 hours. We made 30 of them. There were about 170 quarter inch holes drilled and reamed in it as well.

 

[Klaus]

It's not surprising. When I was a machinist it was a nightmare. We made a part out of 3/4" water jet cut plate that got 3D machined for about 11 hours then it was my job to sand it with the air sander for about 6 hours. We made 30 of them. There were about 170 quarter inch holes drilled and reamed in it as well.

Who would think that members of the IRA would struggle with a complicated manufacturing process.

 

[Weather Man]

It's not surprising. When I was a machinist it was a nightmare. We made a part out of 3/4" water jet cut plate that got 3D machined for about 11 hours then it was my job to sand it with the air sander for about 6 hours. We made 30 of them. There were about 170 quarter inch holes drilled and reamed in it as well.

I remembered this comment from Elon. Based on consumer feedback, they have failed so far.

"Due to the nature of Cybertruck, which is made of bright metal with mostly straight edges, any dimensional variation shows up like a sore thumb.

All parts for this vehicle, whether internal or from suppliers, need to be designed and built to sub 10 micron accuracy.

That means all part dimensions need to be to the third decimal place in millimeters and tolerances need be specified in single digit microns. If LEGO and soda cans, which are very low cost, can do this, so can we.

Precision predicates perfectionism.

Elon"

 

[Fat Boss]

I'm calling BS on that strategy. There's 25.4 microns in a thousandth of an inch. His statement is saying parts will be made to tolerances of +/- a half a thou. Anyone in engineering or manufacturing knows what happens to cost when you go +/- 1 thou on the print. Cutting that tolerance in half gets very expensive. Soda cans are extremely simple propositions compared to build to print stamped, machined, and molded components.

I spent 8 years as a manufacturing engineer who often moonlighted as a Dfx engineer and if I saw tolerances anywhere near that on a print for just about anything I'd be saying, "yeah, nah." For reference, in our industry we design and make machines that make computer chips with sub-micron capability and our flatness and parallel call outs on a 12 inch part just about never go tighter than 2 thou. A human hair is about 3 thou, or about 75 microns.

 

[Weather Man]

I'm calling BS on that strategy. There's 25.4 microns in a thousandth of an inch. His statement is saying parts will be made to tolerances of +/- a half a thou. Anyone in engineering or manufacturing knows what happens to cost when you go +/- 1 thou on the print. Cutting that tolerance in half gets very expensive. Soda cans are extremely simple propositions compared to build to print stamped, machined, and molded components.

I spent 8 years as a manufacturing engineer who often moonlighted as a Dfx engineer and if I saw tolerances anywhere near that on a print for just about anything I'd be saying, "yeah, nah." For reference, in our industry we design and make machines that make computer chips with sub-micron capability and our flatness and parallel call outs on a 12 inch part just about never go tighter than 2 thou. A human hair is about 3 thou, or about 75 microns.

And that's why the cybertruck looks crooked to many customers.

 

[Weather Man]

Please ignore the cloud of death dispensing EV scooter, nothing to see! Move along!

 

[B7BlownSnake]

I'm calling BS on that strategy. There's 25.4 microns in a thousandth of an inch. His statement is saying parts will be made to tolerances of +/- a half a thou. Anyone in engineering or manufacturing knows what happens to cost when you go +/- 1 thou on the print. Cutting that tolerance in half gets very expensive. Soda cans are extremely simple propositions compared to build to print stamped, machined, and molded components.

I spent 8 years as a manufacturing engineer who often moonlighted as a Dfx engineer and if I saw tolerances anywhere near that on a print for just about anything I'd be saying, "yeah, nah." For reference, in our industry we design and make machines that make computer chips with sub-micron capability and our flatness and parallel call outs on a 12 inch part just about never go tighter than 2 thou. A human hair is about 3 thou, or about 75 microns.

I'm an engineer at a medical device company, and some of my "peers" think +/- half thou is totally normal and doable for any machine or stamping shop. I mean if you can do it in Creo, it obviously works in real life.

 

[kaz109]

I know firsthand what it’s like bringing the new product to the market and how many times it Has to be put out before it’s excepted by the public but this is crazy.

This Ford dealership is semi-close to me and in the search I just typed in new Mach E on lot…look at the total!!!!

 

[Weather Man]

I know firsthand what it’s like bringing the new product to the market and how many times it Has to be put out before it’s excepted by the public but this is crazy.

This Ford dealership is semi-close to me and in the search I just typed in new Mach E on lot…look at the total!!!!
View attachment 1830074

212 new Mustang Mach-E within 100 miles of me and I've never seen one on the road other than the local Ford courtesy transport one.

 

[kaz109]

212 new Mustang Mach-E within 100 miles of me and I've never seen one on the road other than the local Ford courtesy transport one.

Well there’s the difference in our location I guess…. I see them everywhere and I mean EVERYWHERE …. Same with Tesla Model 3 and model Y but then again I’m pretty close to the hub ( Tech capital)

 

[Weather Man]

Well there’s the difference in our location I guess…. I see them everywhere and I mean EVERYWHERE …. Same with Tesla Model 3 and model Y but then again I’m pretty close to the hub ( Tech capital)

Tesla still a rare bird here. Although, true story, I watched a trooper scatter traffic on I-494 bumper pushing a dead Tesla to the shoulder on my way to pick up my new M4. Had a good laugh.

 

[kaz109]

Tesla still a rare bird here. Although, true story, I watched a trooper scatter traffic on I-494 bumper pushing a dead Tesla to the shoulder on my way to pick up my new M4. Had a good laugh.

Yea don’t have that problem here, weather is fine so no charging issues and at any given time waiting for your signal light to change you will see on avg about 20 Teslas… no exaggeration.

The Mach E situation is different because of the core buyers ford is going after. Ford needs to rebrand it and I believe the numbers will be better.