The HARD TRUTH about EVs

[Matts00GT]

LOL I love that you use the tax credit to justify your purchase while at the same time dismissing the government subsidies when I used it to explain what keeps EVs barely viable. LOL.

Man you should run for office.

It's an incentive.

Your argument is that's the only reason they're viable. But many vehicles/owners do not qualify for the credit yet the cars are still on the road.

Therefore, your argument is null and stupid.

 

[Tezz500]

It's an incentive.

Your argument is that's the only reason they're viable. But many vehicles/owners do not qualify for the credit yet the cars are still on the road.

Therefore, your argument is null and stupid.

That’s so weird considering you bought yours based on a government subsidy.

 

[Tezz500]

We having fun kids?

I’m enjoying this yes.

 

[Tezz500]

LMMFAO imagine paying 65K for this Shitbox!

 

[SSSSSSSSSSSSVT]

Efficiency is simply output divided by input. In the case of EV motors, it's the conversion of electrical energy into kinetic energy.

As a simple consumer, I don't necessarily care how the product is derived as I'm not an activist for either side.

I pay $0.13 a kw and I paid ~52k for the car minus the tax credit resulting in $44.5k. This effectively cuts my fuel costs to about 33% while also giving me a car that goes 0-60 in 3.1s, has brembro brakes on all four corners, requires almost no maintenance, and adds the convenience of never having to stop at gas stations.

I'm not going to go down the rabbit holes of precious metal mining, 'green energy' production, carbon emissions, etc...

Those mines are going to stay open whether or not I buy an EV as the metals are used in everything from your catalytic converter to your cell phone. The dems are going to continue to push windmills and solar regardless of the vehicle I drive (while somehow also completely ignoring the actual viable power source- Nuclear.) And foreign countries like China and India don't give two shits about carbon emissions.

I evaluated the car for what it is. Not what someone tells me it 'should be' or what it 'should represent'.

Matts; you are not factoring in the cost of the initial energy investment at the time of purchase (battery). You pay $25,000.00 for the electrical energy in the battery when you purchase the car PLUS the cost of the vehicle. Then you pay per kw after UNTIL the battery fails then you are forced to pay another $25,000.00+ inflation for the privilege to use the EV again. When you factor in these costs you are not saving 33% - The reality is you are spending much more money on an EV vehicle over a ICE vehicle. There is zero cost savings in EV's, only added costs for these vehicles, ie charging stations, fast charging costs, battery replacements etc. Until we are honest with actual costs of EV ownership it will be a huge deception for people holding the bag on failed batteries in the future. In the future if a used EV vehicle needs a new battery it will be essentially worthless.

 

[SSSSSSSSSSSSVT]

This is for Chris and Matts; do you have your flower on display for your fancy pony?

 

[Lambeau]

It's an incentive.

Your argument is that's the only reason they're viable. But many vehicles/owners do not qualify for the credit yet the cars are still on the road.

Therefore, your argument is null and stupid.

Matts00GT, now you've dug a hole you cannot get out of. Bragging about your continuing education and its funding has not helped your argument.

 

[Rb0891]

Once someone comes up with a new flux capacitor this shit is going to be lit.

 

[Klaus]

Efficiency is simply output divided by input. In the case of EV motors, it's the conversion of electrical energy into kinetic energy.

A more accurate measure is the KW of output divided by the KW required to charge the battery. The Tesla S requires 114kw to charge. You will get 98kw before the battery is empty so the efficiency level is ~85%. This is less than an ICE motor.

But the point is moot. No one is actually buying a $50k car because of fuel efficiency. Very few people are buying any car at any price for fuel efficiency.

I pay $0.13 a kw and I paid ~52k for the car minus the tax credit resulting in $44.5k. This effectively cuts my fuel costs to about 33%

How much was the charger and supporting changes to your electrical system?

the convenience of never having to stop at gas stations.

EVs may be great for a 2nd or 3rd car. It is not a car that you can take on a road trip. It is "convenient" so long as you have a back up car that is ICE.

So your EV purchase is subsidized explicitly by tax incentives but it is also subsidized implicitly by the ICE vehicle that you also own.

 

[Matts00GT]

Matts; you are not factoring in the cost of the initial energy investment at the time of purchase (battery). You pay $25,000.00 for the electrical energy in the battery when you purchase the car PLUS the cost of the vehicle. Then you pay per kw after UNTIL the battery fails then you are forced to pay another $25,000.00+ inflation for the privilege to use the EV again. When you factor in these costs you are not saving 33% - The reality is you are spending much more money on an EV vehicle over a ICE vehicle. There is zero cost savings in EV's, only added costs for these vehicles, ie charging stations, fast charging costs, battery replacements etc. Until we are honest with actual costs of EV ownership it will be a huge deception for people holding the bag on failed batteries in the future. In the future if a used EV vehicle needs a new battery it will be essentially worthless.

That's not how much a replacement battery pack costs nor is replacing the battery pack a real concern. There are a multitude of Teslas with 150k+ miles. The estimated life is 300-500k miles.

How much does it cost to replace a GT500 motor and transmission? A hellcat? An M3/m4?

A more accurate measure is the KW of output divided by the KW required to charge the battery. The Tesla S requires 114kw to charge. You will get 98kw before the battery is empty so the efficiency level is ~85%. This is less than an ICE motor.

But the point is moot. No one is actually buying a $50k car because of fuel efficiency. Very few people are buying any car at any price for fuel efficiency.



How much was the charger and supporting changes to your electrical system?



EVs may be great for a 2nd or 3rd car. It is not a car that you can take on a road trip. It is "convenient" so long as you have a back up car that is ICE.

So your EV purchase is subsidized explicitly by tax incentives but it is also subsidized implicitly by the ICE vehicle that you also own.

The mobile charger is $250 with tax/shipping and it costs roughly $90 to install a nema 14-50 outlet next to my panel. The wall connector (hardwire option) is 450 but costs less in materials to install as you do not need the outlet/box/faceplate. Yes, thats DIYing the install.

The efficiency of an ICE is roughly 40%. The rest is lost to heat and friction throughout the combustion cycle. And you're right, I didn't buy it for fuel efficiency--it's simply an added bonus.

An ICE car is better for a road trip due to the number of refueling options and time it takes to refuel vs charging. No argument there.

However, plenty of people have done road trips in Teslas. It'd be a much harder journey with vehicles that do not have access to Tesla's supercharger system.

But even on a 500 mile road trip, I'd have to stop once to recharge. Anything over that and I'm likely flying anyways.

 

[Weather Man]

That's not how much a replacement battery pack costs nor is replacing the battery pack a real concern. There are a multitude of Teslas with 150k+ miles. The estimated life is 300-500k miles.

How much does it cost to replace a GT500 motor and transmission? A hellcat? An M3/m4?



The mobile charger is $250 with tax/shipping and it costs roughly $90 to install a nema 14-50 outlet next to my panel. The wall connector (hardwire option) is 450 but costs less in materials to install as you do not need the outlet/box/faceplate. Yes, thats DIYing the install.

The efficiency of an ICE is roughly 40%. The rest is lost to heat and friction throughout the combustion cycle. And you're right, I didn't buy it for fuel efficiency--it's simply an added bonus.

An ICE car is better for a road trip due to the number of refueling options and time it takes to refuel vs charging. No argument there.

However, plenty of people have done road trips in Teslas. It'd be a much harder journey with vehicles that do not have access to Tesla's supercharger system.

But even on a 500 mile road trip, I'd have to stop once to recharge. Anything over that and I'm likely flying anyways.

Most houses built in the USA have 100 amp service. Just to install a 40 amp charger will mean upgrading to a 200 amp service, if allowed. Many people will just slap it in there anyway and many will burn down as a result. None of this would matter if EV's weren't being mandated.

That 300-500k number is straight off of the worship of Elon website of choice. Looking at the quality as new issues, LOL.

 

[Tezz500]

That's not how much a replacement battery pack costs nor is replacing the battery pack a real concern. There are a multitude of Teslas with 150k+ miles. The estimated life is 300-500k miles.

How much does it cost to replace a GT500 motor and transmission? A hellcat? An M3/m4?



The mobile charger is $250 with tax/shipping and it costs roughly $90 to install a nema 14-50 outlet next to my panel. The wall connector (hardwire option) is 450 but costs less in materials to install as you do not need the outlet/box/faceplate. Yes, thats DIYing the install.

The efficiency of an ICE is roughly 40%. The rest is lost to heat and friction throughout the combustion cycle. And you're right, I didn't buy it for fuel efficiency--it's simply an added bonus.

An ICE car is better for a road trip due to the number of refueling options and time it takes to refuel vs charging. No argument there.

However, plenty of people have done road trips in Teslas. It'd be a much harder journey with vehicles that do not have access to Tesla's supercharger system.

But even on a 500 mile road trip, I'd have to stop once to recharge. Anything over that and I'm likely flying anyways.

Imagine being so deluded that you compare your shitbox Tesla power wheels to a GT500 or a HellCat…

 

[Matts00GT]

Most houses built in the USA have 100 amp service. Just to install a 40 amp charger will mean upgrading to a 200 amp service, if allowed. Many people will just slap it in there anyway and many will burn down as a result. None of this would matter if EV's weren't being mandated.

That 300-500k number is straight off of the worship of Elon website of choice. Looking at the quality as new issues, LOL.

I can't answer whether you're right or wrong on the panel service but ours was 200 amp. I would think most newer homes would receive a 200 amp panel.

I'm not sure I buy the numbers Elon spouts either. But based on actual degradation numbers, it could be plausible.

Time will tell. I'm pretty sure there are some Chevy Bolts and Nissan Leafs that have gotten up pretty high though.

 

[Matts00GT]

Imagine being so deluded that you compare your shitbox Tesla power wheels to a GT500 or a HellCat…

I guess I shouldn't. Theyre nowhere close to the Plaids performance and only slightly quicker in the 1/4 than my half priced car.

 

[Tezz500]

I guess I shouldn't. Theyre nowhere close to the Plaids performance and only slightly quicker in the 1/4 than my half priced car.

I will gladly drag your ass to gapplebees any day of the week. LOL. Stop LOL.

And I’ll do it drinking a slurpee… after having travelled 1500 miles just for shits and gigs… because well… I can.

 

[SSSSSSSSSSSSVT]

That's not how much a replacement battery pack costs

Yes it is. That’s todays costs without install. In 5 years the cost of the battery could double to $50,000. Plus install.

 

[Matts00GT]

Yes it is. That’s todays costs without install. In 5 years the cost of the battery could double to $50,000. Plus install.

Lol no it's not. You can google a receipt from tesla for replacement and install out of warranty. It was 16kish.

And to your second point, it could also be cut in half in five years as battery tech continues to improve. I'm willing to bet it's neither.

 

[Matts00GT]

I will gladly drag your ass to gapplebees any day of the week. LOL. Stop LOL.

And I’ll do it drinking a slurpee… after having travelled 1500 miles just for shits and gigs… because well… I can.

Cool man. Then you can race something in your MSRP class, like the plaid.

 

[SSSSSSSSSSSSVT]

Lol no it's not. You can google a receipt from tesla for replacement and install out of warranty. It was 16kish.

And to your second point, it could also be cut in half in five years as battery tech continues to improve. I'm willing to bet it's neither.

It’s the current replacement cost in the Ford. Perhaps the Tesla it has a smaller battery? I just replaced the battery in my GT500. Was $200. Fun fact; these electric golf carts also need a 12V battery.

Also LOL on your battery break through. Lithium is a finite resource controlled by communist china. Yeah I’m good for not betting my money with them.

 

[Matts00GT]

It’s the current replacement cost in the Ford. Perhaps the Tesla it has a smaller battery? I just replaced the battery in my GT500. Was $200. Fun fact; these electric golf carts also need a 12V battery.

Also LOL on your battery break through. Lithium is a finite resource controlled by communist china. Yeah I’m good for not betting my money with them.

Won't argue the pricing form Ford. I have no idea. But again, I have an 8 year warranty on the battery pack and motors. I highly doubt I'll have this car 8 years from now.

Lithium may not be the future. I have no idea. I simply know that we (society) have a pretty good track record of solving problems with alternate solutions.