The HARD TRUTH about EVs

[SID297]

And a Model 3 gets 134 combined city/highway MPGe 141 city 127 highway 25 kWh/100 miles

What's the point?

Oh it will also drag a stock Mustang GT's ass. Oh wait... We only discuss fiction here. Keep going

I have no idea what your point is? I'm talking about burning diesel fuel to make AC electricity, which is then converted to DC electricity to charge a battery, said DC electricity then being converted back to AC power in order to move a car; versus just burning the diesel to move a car. If efficiency and environmental friendliness is the goal, that charging scenario seems to miss it - in reality.

Also, Tesla mileage claims appear to be works of fiction -

Tesla Sued Over Exaggerating Mileage Claims In Class Action Lawsuit

It's a problem faced by millions who’ve bought electric vehicles - approximate rather than exact mileage ranges.

www.forbes.com

 

[OX1]

Yeah, no.

Australian charger much more efficient than post claims​

In addition to misrepresenting the scope of Edwards' EV charger, the social media post provides incorrect specifications. It significantly understates miles per gallon of fuel provided by the unit.

While the post describes the EV charger as providing 5.6 miles per gallon of diesel, Edwards said it actually provides more than 50 mpg.

The post says the unit has a 350KW generator, uses 12 gallons of diesel per hour, and requires three hours to charge the vehicle in the photo. The vehicle can then travel for 200 miles, the post claims.

Edwards said the unit in the photograph actually has a 60KW generator that uses less than 4 gallons of fuel per hour. He said it took about 45 minutes to charge the BMW i3s shown in the picture, which could then travel 125 miles.

Requires 3 hours to charge including 0-20% and/or 80-100%? At what speed and accessory usage does it go 200 miles?

 

[TerminatoRS]

On a performance car enthusiast forum, debating mpg and efficiency - especially of EVs - seems counterintuitive.

 

[Weather Man]

Requires 3 hours to charge including 0-20% and/or 80-100%? At what speed and accessory usage does it go 200 miles?

When you're in the middle of the outback, you take what you can get. If you're dumb enough to drive an EV in the outback, you also get what you deserve.

 

[Weather Man]

I have no idea what your point is? I'm talking about burning diesel fuel to make AC electricity, which is then converted to DC electricity to charge a battery, said DC electricity then being converted back to AC power in order to move a car; versus just burning the diesel to move a car. If efficiency and environmental friendliness is the goal, that charging scenario seems to miss it - in reality.

Also, Tesla mileage claims appear to be works of fiction -

Tesla Sued Over Exaggerating Mileage Claims In Class Action Lawsuit

It's a problem faced by millions who’ve bought electric vehicles - approximate rather than exact mileage ranges.

www.forbes.com

The way the EPA computes EV mileage claims is a complete fiction.

 

[blk02edge]

On a performance car enthusiast forum, debating mpg and efficiency - especially of EVs - seems counterintuitive.

Meh, it's about the politics of it.

 

[Weather Man]

On a performance car enthusiast forum, debating mpg and efficiency - especially of EVs - seems counterintuitive.

Talking about the bullshit that will eliminate the vehicles we enthuse about seems reasonable.

 

[OX1]

When you're in the middle of the outback, you take what you can get. If you're dumb enough to drive an EV in the outback, you also get what you deserve.

Reason I ask is we just drove from Orlando to Central Jersey. 7:30 AM to 11 PM. 80-85 most of the way. Was a Model 3 with us for about 160 miles, then turned off to charge I assume. It was HOT, so AC cranking and he was keeping up with us pretty well (unlike 95% of EV's I see, hypermiling in the slow lane).

So not much to do if it's your sig others turn to drive, so I looked up charging. It seems you might get 180-200 miles after charging a Model 3 @ a Tesla charger @ it's max, in about 20-30 minutes. But that also assumes 100% charge, and NOT starting from 0% charge. The 0-20 and 80-100 takes much longer. (again, assuming our sustained higher speed and access usage)

@ 1051 miles, I figure they'd have to stop for a min of 3-5 more hours, and that is IF they find chargers exactly where they wanted them, none were broke, none were being used, and you didn't want to stop at some other location (like I wanted a Dunkin Donuts coffee, fuel just happened to be there, as it is every 2 miles on every highway, everywhere, on the east coast).

 

[Rb0891]

I have no idea what your point is? I'm talking about burning diesel fuel to make AC electricity, which is then converted to DC electricity to charge a battery, said DC electricity then being converted back to AC power in order to move a car; versus just burning the diesel to move a car. If efficiency and environmental friendliness is the goal, that charging scenario seems to miss it - in reality.

Also, Tesla mileage claims appear to be works of fiction -

Tesla Sued Over Exaggerating Mileage Claims In Class Action Lawsuit

It's a problem faced by millions who’ve bought electric vehicles - approximate rather than exact mileage ranges.

www.forbes.com

Yes as it relates to the topic at hand (these generator charging systems), all the MPGe bullshit means nothing. Bottom line is the great achievement they were promoting was getting 40-50 MPG diesel. EV proponents seem to believe energy conversion happens magically at 100% efficiency.

I actually hope this generator system catches on as it will take massive ignorance not too put the factors together (like basically you just put 3-4 gallons of diesel in your car). Of course the simpletons will probably just say, "My house doesn't have a diesel generator". LMAO.

 

[Weather Man]

Reason I ask is we just drove from Orlando to Central Jersey. 7:30 AM to 11 PM. 80-85 most of the way. Was a Model 3 with us for about 160 miles, then turned off to charge I assume. It was HOT, so AC cranking and he was keeping up with us pretty well (unlike 95% of EV's I see, hypermiling in the slow lane).

So not much to do if it's your sig others turn to drive, so I looked up charging. It seems you might get 180-200 miles after charging a Model 3 @ a Tesla charger @ it's max, in about 20-30 minutes. But that also assumes 100% charge, and NOT starting from 0% charge. The 0-20 and 80-100 takes much longer. (again, assuming our sustained higher speed and access usage)

@ 1051 miles, I figure they'd have to stop for a min of 3-5 more hours, and that is IF they find chargers exactly where they wanted them, none were broke, none were being used, and you didn't want to stop at some other location (like I wanted a Dunkin Donuts coffee, fuel just happened to be there, as it is every 2 miles on every highway, everywhere, on the east coast).

Just trying to imagine trying to vacation out West. The gas station volume on the big stations is just incredible in and out. Now imagine stacking up all the people trying to charge, and it is going to get ugly. There is no way in hell that the power company can support 50-100 or more EV's charging. Thats 12.5 to 25 megawatts !! of power to provide max level 3 charging!!!! And that's just 1 station! What about all the other stations on the same exit!

I'm just trying to imagine the car full of screaming kids, you plug in with the 100 other people and the charger says level 2 charging speed, 5 hours needed to get to next station. There will people committing seppuku in the parking lot, or driving straight to the nearest dealer to be raped trading it in on anything ICE.

This math is why China was building coal fired power plants just as fast as they could put them together and still doing it.

 

[TerminatoRS]

Talking about the bullshit that will eliminate the vehicles we enthuse about seems reasonable.

I absolutely agree on that general premise. I was referring more so to combined MPGe and whether any EV is faster than an ICE vehicle. Doesn't matter if a Tesla XYZ mark V runs a -12.6 in the quarter; we're here because there's more to the hobby than clicking a button and flooring it.

 

[Klaus]

No one wants electric electric trucks.

Ford to Double Output of Hybrid F-150 Truck as EV Sales Slow

Ford Motor Co. is doubling production and cutting prices of gasoline-electric hybrid F-150 pickups as pure electric models become a harder sell among budget-minded buyers.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Fat Boss]

Just trying to imagine trying to vacation out West. The gas station volume on the big stations is just incredible in and out. Now imagine stacking up all the people trying to charge, and it is going to get ugly. There is no way in hell that the power company can support 50-100 or more EV's charging. Thats 12.5 to 25 megawatts !! of power to provide max level 3 charging!!!! And that's just 1 station! What about all the other stations on the same exit!

I'm just trying to imagine the car full of screaming kids, you plug in with the 100 other people and the charger says level 2 charging speed, 5 hours needed to get to next station. There will people committing seppuku in the parking lot, or driving straight to the nearest dealer to be raped trading it in on anything ICE.

This math is why China was building coal fired power plants just as fast as they could put them together and still doing it.

You may want to rethink that.

"The new site will be in Coalinga, which is already home to the 98-stall station at Harris Ranch Inn & Restaurant. According to the documents, Tesla has planned 164 stalls there, although the exact location in the city has not been disclosed. While it can be assumed the manufacturer will simply expand the existing site and add 66 stalls to it, some details indicate that everything is not so simple. As with Willows, Tesla has said it is working to finalize the contract for the location. The company stated that the projected opening date of the Supercharger is 2024."

 

[Klaus]

You may want to rethink that.

"The new site will be in Coalinga, which is already home to the 98-stall station at Harris Ranch Inn & Restaurant. According to the documents, Tesla has planned 164 stalls there, although the exact location in the city has not been disclosed. While it can be assumed the manufacturer will simply expand the existing site and add 66 stalls to it, some details indicate that everything is not so simple. As with Willows, Tesla has said it is working to finalize the contract for the location. The company stated that the projected opening date of the Supercharger is 2024."

Right.

Even Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg Can’t Find a Reliable EV Charger

U.S. launches $100 million effort to upgrade public chargers that have become the scourge of drivers.

www.wsj.com

 

[Fat Boss]

Company internet blocks it.

Are you saying these massive supercharger stations don't exist?

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

You may want to rethink that.

"The new site will be in Coalinga, which is already home to the 98-stall station at Harris Ranch Inn & Restaurant. According to the documents, Tesla has planned 164 stalls there, although the exact location in the city has not been disclosed. While it can be assumed the manufacturer will simply expand the existing site and add 66 stalls to it, some details indicate that everything is not so simple. As with Willows, Tesla has said it is working to finalize the contract for the location. The company stated that the projected opening date of the Supercharger is 2024."

I stopped for gas at a dinky little town in the middle of nowhere Wyoming (on my way to Moab) and had to wait parked in the street 15 minutes for a pump because the place was stacked. Cars/trucks were in and out of the pumps in about 5 minutes. Imagine this in a dystopian BEV future.

 

[Weather Man]

You may want to rethink that.

"The new site will be in Coalinga, which is already home to the 98-stall station at Harris Ranch Inn & Restaurant. According to the documents, Tesla has planned 164 stalls there, although the exact location in the city has not been disclosed. While it can be assumed the manufacturer will simply expand the existing site and add 66 stalls to it, some details indicate that everything is not so simple. As with Willows, Tesla has said it is working to finalize the contract for the location. The company stated that the projected opening date of the Supercharger is 2024."

The stalls will be there, but will the power? You are talking about roughly 40 Megawatts if all the stalls are filled and level 3 charging. So, what will happen is what people already complain about at charging stations, the chargers get throttled.

 

[Fat Boss]

Are you saying it's impossible to funnel 40 megawatts into an area the size of a parking lot? There are massive power lines all over the state. What's the point of adding the additional chargers if they are just going to get throttled?

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

Are you saying it's impossible to funnel 40 megawatts into an area the size of a parking lot? There are massive power lines all over the state. What's the point of adding the additional chargers if they are just going to get throttled?

Is this a joke?

The smallest nuclear reactor is about 550 MW in Prairie Island, MN, or 40MW charge station is about 7% of the power generated by the smallest reactor. The largest is in Palo Verde at 3800MW. They are developing 20MW micro-reactors, so you'd need two of these little nukes for every charge station.

Imagine the capital cost for outfitting 150,000 charging stops with 1 or 2 micro-reactors just to replace the energy content of oil, but your full charge time is still 2+ hours.

When I include my equivalent hourly pay rate into charge time it is crazy more expensive than a tank of gas. And when on cross country vacation road trip? My vacation time is worth 10X my normal hourly equivalent pay.

If society were all in on this electric nightmare and then discovered oil, society would switch very quickly to the more convenient and safer liquid fuel.

 

[Fat Boss]

Is this a joke?

The smallest nuclear reactor is about 550 MW in Prairie Island, MN, or 40MW charge station is about 7% of the power generated by the smallest reactor. The largest is in Palo Verde at 3800MW. They are developing 20MW micro-reactors, so you'd need two of these little nukes for every charge station.

Imagine the capital cost for outfitting 150,000 charging stops with 1 or 2 micro-reactors just to replace the energy content of oil, but your full charge time is still 2+ hours.

When I include my equivalent hourly pay rate into charge time it is crazy more expensive than a tank of gas. And when on cross country vacation road trip? My vacation time is worth 10X my normal hourly equivalent pay.

If society were all in on this electric nightmare and then discovered oil, society would switch very quickly to the more convenient and safer liquid fuel.

Just trying to figure out the facts. For reference, in my industry a semiconductor plant can use 100 megawatts of power. TSMC uses something like 5% of all electricity produced in Taiwan.