stock 2011 5.0 vs 2003 kenne bell cobra

[Sick03Vert]

It's no more risky to run 6-8psi on a new 5.0 than it is to run 15-17psi on an 03 Cobra. They'll make the same amount of power and the 5.0 will be faster.

This is apples to oranges on so many levels, but ok I will bite:

Although anyone running 17psi on their Cobra is asking for trouble IMO, I'm hard-pressed to believe a 5.0 can run 8 psi reliably out of the box.

Slap a blower, pick one don't care, on that otherwise stock-internal 5.0 and that engine is going boom quick.

The single biggest issue facing the new GTs? Their owners.

I'm just going to throw this out there and put on the flame suit: Stock for stock, the Coyote motor does NOT have the same potential as the forged 03-04 Cobra motors. Period.

The new GTs are stretched thin already from the factory. It took some dang good engineers to get that much power, that much compression, out of that engine. They wanted to make the car almost as fast as it could be from the get go...everything can be made faster, but the amount of expense you would have to go through to setup say...800HP in a 5.0 versus a 03-04 Cobra is hugely different.

I'm not biased...I've had more Mustangs than even I can count, and as I've said before I like the new GT. But it does get old hearing guys say, "Well ill just go on down to Pep Boys and get me a supercharger, slap it on there and ill have a Cobra killer with 100% reliability."

No, you won't.:nonono:

 

[truebluedevil02]

Which has the ability to make more power though? There won't be any stock 5.0 engine that will achieve the feat of 1000whp like the stock 03/04 engine did.

True BUT the 5.0 is way more advanced, you put the same size turbos on a cobra motor, and a 5.0, both with forged guts and the 5.0 will make more power at the same boost # as it is a much more efficient motor(and a little bigger I know). Either can make WAY more power than anyone needs but the 5.0 is a better motor once you forge it, also, there have been several shops to make north of 750WHP on the stock motor of the 5.0 so give it a couple more years and you may see a 1000hp stock bottom end coyote, its doubtful but possible(either way it wouldn't last long). 03-04 cobras had been out 3-4 years before anyone broke into the quad digits with them. The Coyote has been out for a year and is already knocking on the 1000hp door so to speak.

 

[Quickstang5o]

I haven't heard of anyone blowing the motor on 8psi, could be wrong.

 

[truebluedevil02]

This is apples to oranges on so many levels, but ok I will bite:

Although anyone running 17psi on their Cobra is asking for trouble IMO, I'm hard-pressed to believe a 5.0 can run 8 psi reliably out of the box.

Slap a blower, pick one don't care, on that otherwise stock-internal 5.0 and that engine is going boom quick.

The single biggest issue facing the new GTs? Their owners.

I'm just going to throw this out there and put on the flame suit: Stock for stock, the Coyote motor does NOT have the same potential as the forged 03-04 Cobra motors. Period.

The new GTs are stretched thin already from the factory. It took some dang good engineers to get that much power, that much compression, out of that engine. They wanted to make the car almost as fast as it could be from the get go...everything can be made faster, but the amount of expense you would have to go through to setup say...800HP in a 5.0 versus a 03-04 Cobra is hugely different.

I'm not biased...I've had more Mustangs than even I can count, and as I've said before I like the new GT. But it does get old hearing guys say, "Well ill just go on down to Pep Boys and get me a supercharger, slap it on there and ill have a Cobra killer with 100% reliability."

No, you won't.:nonono:

gunna have to argue this one, my buddy has a Whipple on his 2011 6spd GT and has put over 22K miles on it since the install, he goes to the track at least once a month(running slicks), road courses it, etc. He only runs 91 octane in it at 9psi, makes just under 600whp on the stock exhaust and the car drive like stock. He even commutes nearly 60miles each day with it, and there not easy miles, he loves to bang gears with it and after all this abuse not a singe thing has broken on it (minus the stock clutch obviously). These cars are great, and since they have the ability to make well over 500whp NA i would not say they are spread thin. In fact, they have TONS of potential. Its proven when you can pick up 50-60whp with just an intake, exhaust and tune.

 

[2K1 SVT]

True BUT the 5.0 is way more advanced, you put the same size turbos on a cobra motor, and a 5.0, both with forged guts and the 5.0 will make more power at the same boost # as it is a much more efficient motor(and a little bigger I know). Either can make WAY more power than anyone needs but the 5.0 is a better motor once you forge it, also, there have been several shops to make north of 750WHP on the stock motor of the 5.0 so give it a couple more years and you may see a 1000hp stock bottom end coyote, its doubtful but possible(either way it wouldn't last long). 03-04 cobras had been out 3-4 years before anyone broke into the quad digits with them. The Coyote has been out for a year and is already knocking on the 1000hp door so to speak.

There is no doubt about that, the VVT and extra displacement definitely help out. Built 5.0 > Built 4.6 4v any day. I could maybe see a boss making it to 1000whp on the stock block but I doubt if a regular stock GT engine will ever get close to that.

 

[Sick03Vert]

gunna have to argue this one, my buddy has a Whipple on his 2011 6spd GT and has put over 22K miles on it since the install, he goes to the track at least once a month(running slicks), road courses it, etc. He only runs 91 octane in it at 9psi, makes just under 600whp on the stock exhaust and the car drive like stock. He even commutes nearly 60miles each day with it, and there not easy miles, he loves to bang gears with it and after all this abuse not a singe thing has broken on it (minus the stock clutch obviously). These cars are great, and since they have the ability to make well over 500whp NA i would not say they are spread thin. In fact, they have TONS of potential. Its proven when you can pick up 50-60whp with just an intake, exhaust and tune.

I think from now on...I'm just not going to get involved in threads that have anything to do with 5.0s. I'm really beginning to develop a dislike for those cars as the owners sound like Supra guys.

I give. A 2000HP stock internal 5.0 running 500psi will take all kinds of abuse, last 500 years, and never break. Heck, 30 years from now it will still have that new car smell. Wow.:nonono:

 

[racerat]

This is apples to oranges on so many levels, but ok I will bite:

Although anyone running 17psi on their Cobra is asking for trouble IMO, I'm hard-pressed to believe a 5.0 can run 8 psi reliably out of the box.

Slap a blower, pick one don't care, on that otherwise stock-internal 5.0 and that engine is going boom quick.

The single biggest issue facing the new GTs? Their owners.

I'm just going to throw this out there and put on the flame suit: Stock for stock, the Coyote motor does NOT have the same potential as the forged 03-04 Cobra motors. Period.

The new GTs are stretched thin already from the factory. It took some dang good engineers to get that much power, that much compression, out of that engine. They wanted to make the car almost as fast as it could be from the get go...everything can be made faster, but the amount of expense you would have to go through to setup say...800HP in a 5.0 versus a 03-04 Cobra is hugely different.

I'm not biased...I've had more Mustangs than even I can count, and as I've said before I like the new GT. But it does get old hearing guys say, "Well ill just go on down to Pep Boys and get me a supercharger, slap it on there and ill have a Cobra killer with 100% reliability."

No, you won't.:nonono:

I'm not biased either. I have a KB 03 and a KB 5.0. Guess which one is faster? ;-)

There are PLENTY of stock internal 5.0s running 8 psi of boost, making close to 600rwhp, daily driven and track used. Let's not forget the factory supercharged 5.0 Shelby GT350 and Roush-charged cars.

I love the Terminator and IMO, that car changed the reputation/street cred of the Mustang like no other in history, but they're not at the top anymore.

 

[D.T.R]

I'm not biased either. I have a KB 03 and a KB 5.0. Guess which one is faster? ;-)

There are PLENTY of stock internal 5.0s running 8 psi of boost, making close to 600rwhp, daily driven and track used. Let's not forget the factory supercharged 5.0 Shelby GT350 and Roush-charged cars.

I love the Terminator and IMO, that car changed the reputation/street cred of the Mustang like no other in history, but they're not at the top anymore.

Whats pretty crazy also, is the fact that the 5.0 is so much more refined that sometimes it's hard to realize how fast youre going (while racing)

 

[corepwn]

Whats pretty crazy also, is the fact that the 5.0 is so much more refined that sometimes it's hard to realize how fast youre going (while racing)

5.0 broke my butt dyno, seriously. I thought the LS1s had smooth power delivery, but it's not even close.

 

[Riptide]

I haven't heard of anyone blowing the motor on 8psi, could be wrong.

I've only read of one blowing and it was a whipple car with a little south of 700whp. Didn't last long IIRC. Was custom tuned. Who knows what happened.

They haven't been out all that long but it's pretty apparent - early results are encouraging as far as longevity goes. We'll see how long they last over the next couple years and especially as more people buy and mod them heavily.

 

[Grabber]

I once raced by a 1,000 RWHP Corvette and pulled hard until he got in the car and started catching up. In turn, I shut it down claiming the win.

His loss, tough shit eh.

 

[S8ER01Z]

Lol @ grabber

 

[Grabber]

I just went outside, and raced an old women in a walker.

She lit them casters up good, and had about 3500lbs of weight advantage on me. However, she knew how to roll that walker good after 27 years of "walking the walker" experience and pulled me good.

Even though I had WAYYYYYY more power, she beat me.

That walker was not stock at all.

 

[jonesd]

This is apples to oranges on so many levels, but ok I will bite:

Although anyone running 17psi on their Cobra is asking for trouble IMO, I'm hard-pressed to believe a 5.0 can run 8 psi reliably out of the box.

Slap a blower, pick one don't care, on that otherwise stock-internal 5.0 and that engine is going boom quick.

The single biggest issue facing the new GTs? Their owners.

I'm just going to throw this out there and put on the flame suit: Stock for stock, the Coyote motor does NOT have the same potential as the forged 03-04 Cobra motors. Period.

The new GTs are stretched thin already from the factory. It took some dang good engineers to get that much power, that much compression, out of that engine. They wanted to make the car almost as fast as it could be from the get go...everything can be made faster, but the amount of expense you would have to go through to setup say...800HP in a 5.0 versus a 03-04 Cobra is hugely different.

I'm not biased...I've had more Mustangs than even I can count, and as I've said before I like the new GT. But it does get old hearing guys say, "Well ill just go on down to Pep Boys and get me a supercharger, slap it on there and ill have a Cobra killer with 100% reliability."

No, you won't.:nonono:

8 psi is nothing on the new 5.0 motor, Hell the frpp whipple kit with 1 year/12k mile powertrain warranty runs 7.5lbs of boost.

You are leaving out the most important part of the motor, which is VCT. Its nothing like any of the other mustangs you have owned in the past in respect to how much boost it can handle at a given static compression ratio.

you can lower the dynamic compression ratio of the 5.0 motor with tuning down to 8.7:1 Thanks to VCT. This is exactly what the FRPP whipple tune does when you buy their whipple kit and have them install it. Now that tuners have figured out how to do this, its how people are running around on 12lbs of boost for 20k miles without any problems.

With that said, the 5.0 motor still could never get close to what a 03/04 could handle safely. Most of the big tuners for the 5.0 will say to stop at 625rwhp max on 93 octane. The fuel system maxes at 600rwhp with 47lb injectors, so most guys are just stopping around there and calling it a day anyways.

 

[superman]

i don't know how this thread got off topic(good reading though)i just posted a road kill (don't know why this is so hard for some to believe) My cobra still has the stock motor(valve covers have never been off) solid axle with 3.55 gears-car went 10.72 1/4 mile with ported stock blower---10.20 with 2.3 whipple 17lbs boost. Been running this for 2 years no problems. I don;t think it's fair to try and compare the 2. The 5.0 has 9 years of technology on the cobra and it's more refined(as it should be) but i don't think you can put these 2 in the same category. The Cobra is a powerhouse that can take a beating and keep running not only the motor but the transmission also. The only thing that i broke in the transmission was the input shaft. Don't know if the 5.0's getrag can take 650 ft lbs of torque for 2 years of hard running. both are great cars but if i had to choose i would have to go with the cobra:shrug:

 

[truebluedevil02]

I think from now on...I'm just not going to get involved in threads that have anything to do with 5.0s. I'm really beginning to develop a dislike for those cars as the owners sound like Supra guys.

I give. A 2000HP stock internal 5.0 running 500psi will take all kinds of abuse, last 500 years, and never break. Heck, 30 years from now it will still have that new car smell. Wow.:nonono:

Get pissed if you want but your statements are completely false. These cars have proven themselves time and time again. Sure, I completely agree that when you take a car and add another 200+whp to it things are gunna break, that's just the name of the game BUT you act as if these cars are piles of trash and there not, they respond better to mods than any other mustang motor EVER, they can run 600whp while maintaining stock driveablility while on pump gas. And the autos can/have ran in the 9's on stock motor, trans, rear end, and iirc there have been a couple to do it with the stock converter. All while maintaining a pretty incredible amount of reliability. An 03-04 cobra cant do this, they need upgraded axles, input shaft, and diff brace at minimum. There both great cars but come on, your not being realistic with your statements.

 

[01Jes]

Still no vid.

 

[Sick03Vert]

Get pissed if you want but your statements are completely false. These cars have proven themselves time and time again. Sure, I completely agree that when you take a car and add another 200+whp to it things are gunna break, that's just the name of the game BUT you act as if these cars are piles of trash and there not, they respond better to mods than any other mustang motor EVER, they can run 600whp while maintaining stock driveablility while on pump gas. And the autos can/have ran in the 9's on stock motor, trans, rear end, and iirc there have been a couple to do it with the stock converter. All while maintaining a pretty incredible amount of reliability. An 03-04 cobra cant do this, they need upgraded axles, input shaft, and diff brace at minimum. There both great cars but come on, your not being realistic with your statements.

I never said the 5.0 is a pile of trash. I don't think it is. I know you said I ACT like I think it's a pile of trash. I don't, but I will say this: I will never own one.

I DO, however, very firmly believe that the new GTs are the most highly over-rated Mustang in the history of the automobile.

What's awesome is, people sit back and say, "Hey, the new 5.0 could do blah blah blah" and "It can hold 600 HP as a dd on pump gas blah blah blah."

Question: How many 600+ HP 5.0s have you seen?

Allow me to clarify the question: How many 600+ HP 5.0s have you seen on a DYNO? Bet you can count on one hand, if any.

How many 03-04 Cobras have you seen at that level on a dyno? I mean, can anyone really sit back and say, "Well, after one year, we can go ahead and say this car has so much more potential than the Cobras did and it's much more reliable."

I'm not going to get into this whole back and forth fiasco because once someone has their mind made up on something, there's no changing it regardless of what it's about or if it's wrong or right.

Ford is making an absolute killing on the new GTs. And the people who buy them are alot like the import crowd/Corvette crowd: "Yeah, it's got "xxx" horsepower...trying to set up a race with a twin turbo Viper but the guy won't show up.."

You know what happens in each of those cases? "Well, heck man...how about running my 03 Cobra just for shiggles?"

"....nah.......man my tune is off...."

;-)

There's potential in everything. But I'm just sick of hearing how great the new GT is. Is it a great car? Sure it is. Is it fast? Sure it is. Is it the second coming? No..it's not. And people need to get off it.:fm:

Sorry for the rant.:fm::mj::cuss:

 

[rodthestud]

The only reason my 2011 gt is not making 600 horses is because the car payment is high enough. If i wouldve bought a cobra i would have extra money to mod the crap out of it because you can find them at fair prices. Parts for the 2011 mustang are sky high.

 

[truebluedevil02]

I never said the 5.0 is a pile of trash. I don't think it is. I know you said I ACT like I think it's a pile of trash. I don't, but I will say this: I will never own one.

I DO, however, very firmly believe that the new GTs are the most highly over-rated Mustang in the history of the automobile.

What's awesome is, people sit back and say, "Hey, the new 5.0 could do blah blah blah" and "It can hold 600 HP as a dd on pump gas blah blah blah."

Question: How many 600+ HP 5.0s have you seen?

Allow me to clarify the question: How many 600+ HP 5.0s have you seen on a DYNO? Bet you can count on one hand, if any.

How many 03-04 Cobras have you seen at that level on a dyno? I mean, can anyone really sit back and say, "Well, after one year, we can go ahead and say this car has so much more potential than the Cobras did and it's much more reliable."

I'm not going to get into this whole back and forth fiasco because once someone has their mind made up on something, there's no changing it regardless of what it's about or if it's wrong or right.

Ford is making an absolute killing on the new GTs. And the people who buy them are alot like the import crowd/Corvette crowd: "Yeah, it's got "xxx" horsepower...trying to set up a race with a twin turbo Viper but the guy won't show up.."

You know what happens in each of those cases? "Well, heck man...how about running my 03 Cobra just for shiggles?"

"....nah.......man my tune is off...."

;-)

There's potential in everything. But I'm just sick of hearing how great the new GT is. Is it a great car? Sure it is. Is it fast? Sure it is. Is it the second coming? No..it's not. And people need to get off it.:fm:

Sorry for the rant.:fm::mj::cuss:

I agree its not the 2nd coming and I can think of several cars that are just as good and arguably better for the same $ but they are used and the GT would be new, i guess we agree to a point BUT you cant FI a new coyote and net be in the 580+whp area, I have seen my buddies on the dyno and at the track personally (we have raced several times) and I have another friend with a procharged one that I have personally driven and seen on the dyno, these cars back there shit up, and they do it quite easily. My only complaint is they are ridiculously expensive to FI when compared to an 03-04 cobra.

This is my buddies Whipple car skip to .50sec. I was the one filming. Like I said, the car has over 22K miles on it since the install, he is a ford factory tech so he bought the car and had the blower on in less than 3 weeks.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC-NUBLJR1s"]RWR Dyno day - YouTube[/nomedia]

This is my friend terrys car, this car has been running like this since right after they hit the market (2years ish), his was the first FI coyote GT in the state. I have personally driven this car, its awesome.
terrysmustang

These are the only 2 FI coyote I personally know, I have seen a couple others at the track performing well but I have yet to see one other than these 2 at a meet. But having driven a few different full bolt on 03 cobras, and this 11' procharged GT, I can say without a doubt, the GT is 5time what the cobra is, its just all around better. But a lot of that can be subject to personal preference.
I will say its nice having a debate with someone over the net without them trying to act like an Ethug. I'm all for a friendly debate:beer: