What your missing is that neither blower/setup should have a race tune that lean....period...unless your a money is no object kinda guy :rockon:
stiegmeier stage 5+ vs posi race port comparrison
- Thread starter tonylittell
- Start date
What your missing is that neither blower/setup should have a race tune that lean....period...unless your a money is no object kinda guy :rockon:
Too summarize what my other posts contained. To clear the confusion
1. The motor has been together with this Mike Murillo tune for 3 years and seen many many many low et passes and hasn't had an issue yet.
2. That afr was on the race tune that was on the car when I got it with the steggy blower and what the race tune had for afr netted the highest numbers for that Steggy blower.
3. With the Mike Murillo street tune on that steggy blower it was making 451/457 at a 11.7 afr
4. Those tunes were on the car when I bought it and those were the numbers it produced when I put it on the dyno.
5 it no longer has a steggy blower, it has a posi.
6 had to stop tuning early because I had to go get son that got hurt at daycare.
7 posi blower is running same tune but we started adding fuel BECAUSE WE THOUGHT THE MURILLO TUNE WAS TOO LEAN
8 with a afr in 9.8-9.9 range the posi is still making more power than the engine was with the steggy blower at the steggys highest numbers it made. Regardless of what the afr was.
At no point was the new blower at that high of a afr. We will see where the sweet spot is with this blower and that's where it will be at
.,..........
The point of this thread was to point out what one blower made maxed out getting all the power that could be gotten out of it
And what another blower made still needing to be tuned
I should know the point of the thread since I am the one that posted the thread and the results
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The blower shown in that link IS NOT a blower ported by Posi Performance.
Also a nonported blower against ANY ported blower at 3,500 rpm's running the same boost will NOT be ahead 30hp PLUS. Let alone 1 ported blower against another ported blower. It's not possible.
Thanks
op:
OP, you keep harping on lean tune was the race tune. What fuel was in it for that race tune? what made it a race tune? Just the previous owner saying it was the race tune? what was the timing at for that race tune? What is the timing of the posi port with the pig rich a/f?
Frankly, the argument of which blower made more power is not accurate in your post. It isn't the same tune if you adjusted the a/f. If anything, what should have happened at the time is the a/f be CORRECT for the steg blower based on fuel octane. Then that same tune used for the posi blower with everything else being equal and the a/f adjusted to match what it was with the steg if adjustment was needed.
Of course there are a lot of other parameters. This thread doesn't really go into a lot of detail. It isn't as simple as you are trying to make it out to be when comparing the blowers. I am assuming based on the graphs that you had the steg blower and posi blower dyno'ed at the same place. You mention the tuner being Mike for the steg. Is he the same guy that revised the fuel for the posi or was it a different tuner? I also mention more than once that the max power with the steg is what you posted, how do you know this? Do you have the numbers with the steg port at a correct a/f? If not, then how do you know that is the max it would make with the steg?
And for the record, I fully support Brian and what was Posi Performance (his blower port is on my car), but I also know how to be unbiased and this comparison is not fair.
Frankly, the argument of which blower made more power is not accurate in your post. It isn't the same tune if you adjusted the a/f. If anything, what should have happened at the time is the a/f be CORRECT for the steg blower based on fuel octane. Then that same tune used for the posi blower with everything else being equal and the a/f adjusted to match what it was with the steg if adjustment was needed.
Of course there are a lot of other parameters. This thread doesn't really go into a lot of detail. It isn't as simple as you are trying to make it out to be when comparing the blowers. I am assuming based on the graphs that you had the steg blower and posi blower dyno'ed at the same place. You mention the tuner being Mike for the steg. Is he the same guy that revised the fuel for the posi or was it a different tuner? I also mention more than once that the max power with the steg is what you posted, how do you know this? Do you have the numbers with the steg port at a correct a/f? If not, then how do you know that is the max it would make with the steg?
And for the record, I fully support Brian and what was Posi Performance (his blower port is on my car), but I also know how to be unbiased and this comparison is not fair.
I'm not sure why it wasn't a fair comparison. 3 tunes on the switch chip. One 91 tune one 93 tune and one race tune. The race tune automaticly turns the traction control light on so that you know its the all out tune. The all out tune was running 10 gal of 100 unleaded to 5 gallons of 93 (same mixture previous owner used).this was all of the information I was given by previous owner.... Obviously before I did anything I took it to my tuner. He messed around with the mike Murillo all out tune to see if he could make more power. My tuner adjusted the afr and timing ect and no improvements and only lost power. We did close 16 pulls total that day. The most power it made was with the original race tune which was what I posted. We decided to leave the race tune where it was because I was adding a wet kit and we figured we would address the lean condition by upping the fuel jets once we got the wet kit installed. No biggie......
Forward to the new graph. Same tuner and about 15 degrees hotter as it was august verses may. Since I changed the blower all together and we knew it would need a new tune we used mikes all out tune and added fuel since we were already running real lean on the race tune and didn't know how Brian's blower would affect the afr. So we kept the tune the same and added a little fuel for safety since it was a new blower. We only got to run two dyno runs because I had to leave unexpectedly for an issue with my son. First pass made 37x as it was only seeing 6.5 lbs of boost and the belt was slipping. Left the tune the same and replaced the belt and netted the pull I posted running pig rich. With the new belt it pulled 15.65 lbs of boost which was actually .40 less boost than the Steggy netted boost wise. ..... we didn't get to do any more pulls and I don't have it on the all out tune. I have it on the 93 tune that ran a 11.7 afr with the Murillo tune. Haven't dynoed the posi blower on that tune yet because I ran out of time. I am hoping I can get to the tuners sometime in September to finish tuning. But again running pig rich it made considerable more power. I will post all results once I can get back to the tuners.I am in middle of building my lightning up and waiting on my posi blower to come back and once I have all the parts installed on the lightning I will take them both to be tuned the same day.
Hope this helps explain a little more. And again I should have more info around the middle of next month or possibly a little sooner
Edited because I forgot to post what octane fuel I was using on the race tune.
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Forward to the new graph. Same tuner and about 15 degrees hotter as it was august verses may. Since I changed the blower all together and we knew it would need a new tune we used mikes all out tune and added fuel since we were already running real lean on the race tune and didn't know how Brian's blower would affect the afr. So we kept the tune the same and added a little fuel for safety since it was a new blower. We only got to run two dyno runs because I had to leave unexpectedly for an issue with my son. First pass made 37x as it was only seeing 6.5 lbs of boost and the belt was slipping. Left the tune the same and replaced the belt and netted the pull I posted running pig rich. With the new belt it pulled 15.65 lbs of boost which was actually .40 less boost than the Steggy netted boost wise. ..... we didn't get to do any more pulls and I don't have it on the all out tune. I have it on the 93 tune that ran a 11.7 afr with the Murillo tune. Haven't dynoed the posi blower on that tune yet because I ran out of time. I am hoping I can get to the tuners sometime in September to finish tuning. But again running pig rich it made considerable more power. I will post all results once I can get back to the tuners.I am in middle of building my lightning up and waiting on my posi blower to come back and once I have all the parts installed on the lightning I will take them both to be tuned the same day.
Hope this helps explain a little more. And again I should have more info around the middle of next month or possibly a little sooner
Edited because I forgot to post what octane fuel I was using on the race tune.
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All I know is it is really too bad brian isnt doing ports anymore...big loss to all the fellow cobra brothers.
If your reading brian, thanks for.all your hard work.:rockon:
Have as much fun with your kids as possible. One day I hope to see posi performance back in the saddle.
Dwight
If your reading brian, thanks for.all your hard work.:rockon:
Have as much fun with your kids as possible. One day I hope to see posi performance back in the saddle.
Dwight
They do. Last year I did a same day same car blower swap, a Steg 6+ and a Posi race port. They were similar, with the nod going to steg by about 15-20hp throughout the curve. Everyone that knows how i tune and interpret data.....this was an unbiased test.
AF in the 9's will hurt power not increase it, something is skewed in the test. I see it time and time again on the rollers. Either something was wrong with the other blower or the "data" during these tests was different....im not talking af, boost, hp, tq. Im talking pcm load, delivered timing (actual at the engine) not what is told by the "tooner", iats, coolant temp etc etc etc etc. Without all that too...this comparison is a moot point.
Similar but 15-20hp difference throughout the curve?:shrug: That's not similar and just like back then I don't trust those results AT ALL. One blower made 3 psi more boost from memory?:lol1: A Race Port against a Stage 6 is going to make the same boost. It's a ported Eaton for crying out loud. You're not changing internals. Just the case which both ports are similar so boost just doesn't "appear" from one to another. Unless it's a Snake Bite.
This thread just needs to die....................
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dynobobstieg
New Member
Tony UPS tried to deliver your supercharger Friday says they will make another attempt today (Monday)
Stiegemeier
Stiegemeier
Yea they left sticker on door.....nobody was there to sign for pkg.
Thanks for heads up
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Brian, I don't know why we keep fighting over this. It was a test, I had no reason to try and flub the results. I had an 04 mystichome cobra on the dyno. I swaped the blowers ON the dyno and kept the pulley combination. No other changes were made. The only other tests I ran was how much the SBTB was worth compared to the stocker. I mean "similar" in regards to how the curve looked. If it was "same" it would have made the identical power. It didnt. I cant change the way the results were. Im going to dig thru my dyno archives, because those charts were before an update we performed and it didnt merge all the dyno pulls.
this comment you made..... "with a afr in 9.8-9.9 range the posi is still making more power than the engine was with the steggy blower at the steggys highest numbers it made. Regardless of what the afr was."
If that was the case id say something was seriously wrong with the blower....i said previously...port to port ive only seen a 10-20hp difference, they are both proven ports and yield similar results. 9.8-10 AF to 11.7 AF isnt going to net you 40hp either, lets be realistic here.
Of course adding fuel isn't going to add power. if not adding air its going to be rich and cost more power
My post said even richer than the Steggy
The posi made more power. And when we lean it out to 11.7-12 to 1 it will even make more power and make the gains even bigger
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