Spy Shots—2019 GT500 With Supercharged 5.2 FPC Engine?

[TERMN8U]

I was under the impression this information is bogus or at the very least missing very important information. At least thats how I read DBK's posts.

I hope so.

 

[Shaker1]

With Hellcats and ZL1s selling at a discount to their ~$65K MSRP and being in the ninth year of a bull market, Ford may find itself launching it's halo car into some very tough circumstances. It needs to best both these competitors and match price or this might be more fizzle than bang!

I really do not see the next GT500 being a Demon competitor, unless they simultaneously unveil a 'second' GT500 (KR?) to compete with the Demon. A lighter weight, specially tuned and equipped version.

Meanwhile, I'm very skeptical they have developed a DCT transmission just for the GT500. Or that they are planning to FI a FPC engine. Seems like a really complicated way to go.

 

[Lundy37]

Scared to even see the price tag on it.

 

[thePill]

So you're saying a hot vee makes more power than a conventional twin setup?

I am beginning to think you have extreme difficulty if life.

No, each system has its advantages/disadvantages. If 800+ is the target, the efficiency of a Twin or Hot V would be needed on a 5.0 - 5.2 liter V8. We would need more than 150hp per liter and only a Twin or Hot V can achieve that efficiency... unless your talking a 4 or 6 but they can't achieve 800+ due to displacement.

Even then, it was made pretty clear that Port Direct Injection would be required. PDI didn't exist during the initial discussion nor was Direct Injection being used on a V8.

Who knows, maybe Dodge's 808 sent Ford back to the drawing board. A female engine builder confirmed the engine was being worked on Nov 2015.

I highly doubt we waited nearly 2 years and Ford budgeted $150m to Romeo for PDI and a new SC engine that may not be compatible with PDI.


Edit: It is worth noting, a Hot V BiTurbo is slightly more efficient than a parallel/outboard system. The heat between the cylinder banks helps heat the turbos, which helps efficiency.

Similar to the Ford Indy V8 set up (minus the turbos).

 

[Fourcam380]

I am beginning to think you have extreme difficulty if life.

No, each system has its advantages/disadvantages. If 800+ is the target, the efficiency of a Twin or Hot V would be needed on a 5.0 - 5.2 liter V8. We would need more than 150hp per liter and only a Twin or Hot V can achieve that efficiency... unless your talking a 4 or 6 but they can't achieve 800+ due to displacement.

Even then, it was made pretty clear that Port Direct Injection would be required. PDI didn't exist during the initial discussion nor was Direct Injection being used on a V8.

Who knows, maybe Dodge's 808 sent Ford back to the drawing board. A female engine builder confirmed the engine was being worked on Nov 2015.

I highly doubt we waited nearly 2 years and Ford budgeted $150m to Romeo for PDI and a new SC engine that may not be compatible with PDI.


Edit: It is worth noting, a Hot V BiTurbo is slightly more efficient than a parallel/outboard system. The heat between the cylinder banks helps heat the turbos, which helps efficiency.

Similar to the Ford Indy V8 set up (minus the turbos).

Wrong again.

There isn't a hot vee on earth that makes as much power as a conventional setup all else equal.

Limiting factor is again size of the turbos which are limited in a hot vee by the space between cylinder heads.

Q: How much closer to the exhaust ports do you think the turbos are in a M177, M178, S63TU, etc vs a M157 or F154CB?

A: they're not.

Please stop posting your ignorant drivel.

 

[thePill]

Wrong again.

There isn't a hot vee on earth that makes as much power as a conventional setup all else equal.

Limiting factor is again size of the turbos which are limited in a hot vee by the space between cylinder heads.

Q: How much closer to the exhaust ports do you think the turbos are in a M177, M178, S63TU, etc vs a M157 or F154CB?

A: they're not.

Please stop posting your ignorant drivel.

Oh boy, that's not accurate at all.

The Hot V design has just recently been adopted w/ direct injection.

By design, a Hot V places the turbos in the valley to keep them up to tempurature. A Hot V is slightly more efficient due to its placement and access to cool air above and forward of the intake. It is also better to package.

It is explained rather well in a recent article.

 

[thePill]

Hot V vs. Parallel Twin


https://www.carthrottle.com/post/am...engine-layout-and-what-benefits-does-it-have/

A Twin V6 in the Ford GT makes 171hp per liter. A V8 using the exact parallel twin turbo as the FGT would make slightly less, 160-ish?

Anything a Parallel Twin can do a Hot V, due to design (and Port Direct) can do better. It wouldn't put a parallel to shame, it just runs at optimal temperatures, longer. PDI would help cool the piston/cylinder using over 21,000psi.

 

[Fourcam380]

Hot V vs. Parallel Twin


https://www.carthrottle.com/post/am...engine-layout-and-what-benefits-does-it-have/

A Twin V6 in the Ford GT makes 171hp per liter. A V8 using the exact parallel twin turbo as the FGT would make slightly less, 160-ish?

Anything a Parallel Twin can do a Hot V, due to design (and Port Direct) can do better. It wouldn't put a parallel to shame, it just runs at optimal temperatures, longer. PDI would help cool the piston/cylinder using over 21,000psi.

So now you're saying you can run port and DI on a conventional twin setup? Hahahahahaha. You don't know what side goes up.

 

[Fourcam380]

Can't

 

[thePill]

So now you're saying you can run port and DI on a conventional twin setup? Hahahahahaha. You don't know what side goes up.

Nope, never said that. I question if a Roots-Type Supercharger is compatible with the port injector of the new PDI system.

If both Port and Direct injectors rest in the V on the Coyote, a Hot V would swap those injectors outboard. Are you aware of the HoT V (or Ford Indy V8) operation?

A Twin Turbo system wouldn't be hindered by either injector.

 

[Fourcam380]

Nope, never said that. I question if a Roots-Type Supercharger is compatible with the port injector of the new PDI system.

If both Port and Direct injectors rest in the V on the Coyote, a Hot V would swap those injectors outboard. Are you aware of the HoT V (or Ford Indy V8) operation?

A Twin Turbo system wouldn't be hindered by either injector.

Why would a port injector interfere with he. Lower housing? PDS have used port injection for decades. Nothing you say makes any practical sense.

 

[03cobra#694]

Wrong again.

There isn't a hot vee on earth that makes as much power as a conventional setup all else equal.

Limiting factor is again size of the turbos which are limited in a hot vee by the space between cylinder heads.

Q: How much closer to the exhaust ports do you think the turbos are in a M177, M178, S63TU, etc vs a M157 or F154CB?

A: they're not.

Please stop posting your ignorant drivel.

Oh boy, that's not accurate at all.

The Hot V design has just recently been adopted w/ direct injection.

By design, a Hot V places the turbos in the valley to keep them up to tempurature. A Hot V is slightly more efficient due to its placement and access to cool air above and forward of the intake. It is also better to package.

It is explained rather well in a recent article.

Hot V vs. Parallel Twin


https://www.carthrottle.com/post/am...engine-layout-and-what-benefits-does-it-have/

A Twin V6 in the Ford GT makes 171hp per liter. A V8 using the exact parallel twin turbo as the FGT would make slightly less, 160-ish?

Anything a Parallel Twin can do a Hot V, due to design (and Port Direct) can do better. It wouldn't put a parallel to shame, it just runs at optimal temperatures, longer. PDI would help cool the piston/cylinder using over 21,000psi.

Why would a port injector interfere with he. Lower housing? PDS have used port injection for decades. Nothing you say makes any practical sense.

Would you please learn the multiple quote feature or I'm going to reset your post count to zero.

 

[Fourcam380]

Would you please learn the multiple quote feature or I'm going to reset your post count to zero.

You can't multi post using Tapatalk that I'm aware of. Can't edit either. Could care less about post count.

 

[03cobra#694]

You can't multi post using Tapatalk that I'm aware of. Can't edit either. Could care less about post count.

I wasn't referring to you. I have ulterior motives.

 

[Fourcam380]

I wasn't referring to you. I have ulterior motives.

Gotcha my bad.

 

[03cobra#694]

Gotcha my bad.

You got caught in my multiple quote. I hate my phone sometimes. lol

 

[thePill]

Why would a port injector interfere with he. Lower housing? PDS have used port injection for decades. Nothing you say makes any practical sense.

In an application that uses both direct and port injectors, there is very little room left in the V. Both D and P injectors typically stack, one on top of the other.

Looking at a majority of TVS and Twin Screw superchargers, it appears they require a low rise intake... at least for good clearances in many cases. Port injectors alone have plenty of room, add direct injection just below that and, well, it could get rather tight.

Direct Injection alone is compact, add port injectors above them and suddenly, you are limited on intake options.

Since PDI is rather new, I would look into its compatibility with traditional top loaded superchargers. There is very little information on this topic, none of it would make practical sense.

 

[03cobra#694]

I thought I read something about someone being a engine builder.

 

[thePill]

A separate engine shop builds drivetrains, including transmission. I do not build engines but I understand it's function. I am also not afraid to discuss the topic, I am educated in many areas.


If you want to discuss me specifically, send a friend request on FB. I am not sure why it is of interest.


Is Ford's new PDI system compatible with traditional superchargers?

I saw it, hence my reply.

Nope, never ever said anything like that.

 

[Fourcam380]

In an application that uses both direct and port injectors, there is very little room left in the V. Both D and P injectors typically stack, one on top of the other.

Looking at a majority of TVS and Twin Screw superchargers, it appears they require a low rise intake... at least for good clearances in many cases. Port injectors alone have plenty of room, add direct injection just below that and, well, it could get rather tight.

Direct Injection alone is compact, add port injectors above them and suddenly, you are limited on intake options.

Since PDI is rather new, I would look into its compatibility with traditional top loaded superchargers. There is very little information on this topic, none of it would make practical sense.

No worries it will all fit just fine. Eaton would need at most two months (if that) to make such changes to the hardware.

Very little info > misinformation.