REVISED VMP 160mm TB for Gen 3 - Anyone using it?

[RBB]

Yes, I have ARH 1 7/8 headers with there OFR H pipe and a Kenne bell bigun intercooler. I know that will lower my boost no matter what.

I have a Autometer boost gauge, I vacuum and pressure tested it to make sure it's accurate. With my Trinity TVS and a 2.39 pulley I was seeing 13psi, with the Gen3 and a 2.8 I was seeing 13 to 14 psi, now with the 2.6 I'm seeing 15 maybe 16psi.

Seems pretty low. Are you at high elevation?

 

[2011 gtcs]

Seems pretty low. Are you at high elevation?

No, DA is 1,200 feet. That's why I think my T/B is holding me back, or I'm getting a lot of belt slip.

 

[Catmonkey]

Yes, I have ARH 1 7/8 headers with there OFR H pipe and a Kenne bell bigun intercooler. I know that will lower my boost no matter what.

I have a Autometer boost gauge, I vacuum and pressure tested it to make sure it's accurate. With my Trinity TVS and a 2.39 pulley I was seeing 13psi, with the Gen3 and a 2.8 I was seeing 13 to 14 psi, now with the 2.6 I'm seeing 15 maybe 16psi.

That seems low to me. Stock cams? Any port work on the lower intake when you upgraded the intercooler?

 

[2011 gtcs]

That seems low to me. Stock cams? Any port work on the lower intake when you upgraded the intercooler?

To my knowledge no, Van from Revan racing installed it. I'm thinking either belt slip or it's T/B restricted

 

[sleek98]

Something is not right there, with a 2.8 upper I am at 17 psi even with long tubes and a ported lower manifold. I do have a twin 75mm throttle body though.

 

[RBB]

To my knowledge no, Van from Revan racing installed it. I'm thinking either belt slip or it's T/B restricted

Any black dust around the snout of the blower?

 

[2011 gtcs]

Any black dust around the snout of the blower?

Not that I can see, but I only have 200 miles with the Gen3 on and the blower is black so it's hard to see.

 

[me32]

Yes, I have ARH 1 7/8 headers with there OFR H pipe and a Kenne bell bigun intercooler. I know that will lower my boost no matter what.

I have a Autometer boost gauge, I vacuum and pressure tested it to make sure it's accurate. With my Trinity TVS and a 2.39 pulley I was seeing 13psi, with the Gen3 and a 2.8 I was seeing 13 to 14 psi, now with the 2.6 I'm seeing 15 maybe 16psi.

Boost doesn't sound that off since you have long tubes and OR H. Thats about a 3psi drop.

You could check for any leaks, what does it dyno out? How is fuel? AF raito?

 

[2011 gtcs]

Boost doesn't sound that off since you have long tubes and OR H. Thats about a 3psi drop.

You could check for any leaks, what does it dyno out? How is fuel? AF raito?

A/F ratio is 10.8 & lambda is right at .79, fuel pump duty cycle is around 42%. I logged the car a lot and my calibrator at Lund said everything looks good. I've be busy lately and haven't taken it to the dyno. I think I'm going to order a ARS racing tensioner before I put the car on the dyno.

 

[SID297]

You guys would probably not believe this, but our VMP throttle bodies are actually built by the same company as KB. We specced ours with plastic gears that have worked so well on our twin 67s. However, the brass gears everyone complained about early on, actually add a bunch of play, and keep the computer from thinking the TB is "stuck" which results in a P2112 failsafe code.

We have revised our 160s and 173s with the looser brass gears and also a softer spring that allows the motor to more easily close the large blade when returning to idle. The softer spring requires your default angle be set to 0 in the tune, I had HP tuners add this to most codes, and I have an SCT value file for it. This gives the motor much more control at low airflows and keeps it happy. You can tell if your TB has this feature because the little bolt next to the motor will be brass instead of the OE black spring loaded stop screw.

I heard someone mention in another thread their KB 168 could not be tuned...the truth is, with blades this big, we're on the edge of what the factory ECU can control TB size wise. In a high vacuum situation, like idle, or in-gear decel, there is a TON of force on the blade. The motor has to modulate against this vacuum force. Any time you go to aftermarket cams vacuum goes wayyy down, and the blade becomes very easy for the motor to move. There are also some tuning tricks that help things too. The VMP twin 72mm ultimately suffered from the stiff factory stop spring and the vacuum force acting on the almost 3 inch tall blades.

Also keep in mind KB 168s have been out there for nearly 10 years, and there exists a lot of open source type tune information for them. The VMP 160s and 173s are new sizes and have different OL FF and area tables in the ECU. How they are mapped depends greatly on how much vacuum the combination pulls...as that effects airflow at low throttle angles. I have seen very few tuners that truely know how to map large throttle bodies. I can tell you we have several VMP built/tuned cars running 173s with perfect driveability, but they are cammed out 1000+rwhp combos that need as much air as they can get. We have also seen Lund tune the VMP 160 and 173 very well.

That all being said, we only recommend the 160 and 173 if they are appropriate for the combination and it will actually benefit HP-wise from such a large throttle body.

The VMP 67mm, is our old standby, and it can be tuned by anyone. I'll throw a little secret out there, stock data works just fine most of the time.

We are coming out with a VMP 69mm as well, just a little bump over the 67mm, and still super easy to tune with data that is nearly stock.

Knowing what we know now, the VMP twin 72mm would be easy to bring back, but it would have kind of an odd place in the market because we plan to bring out a small monoblade like the Ford Racing CJ unit. That blade is small enough for the electronics to modulate easily, and with what we know now, and the tweaks we plan to make, it will work extremely well on stock camshaft/stock vacuum situations. There is an abundance of tuning info out there for the FRPP mono. Once you go bigger than a twin 65, 67, 69, or go from a small monoblade to a really big one, it really separates the tooners from the tuners.

With all that being said, you can see how bigger is not always better, and be careful what you wish for.

Going forward we are setting up our throttle body line with easy to tune twin blade options, a medium sized option, and a large race option, that is not outside what the electronics/motor can handle even with a lot of vacuum. I believe we'll have the easiest to tune and best performing options out there. All of these new TB options will be out in the next 3-4 months.

That's great info.

 

[biminiLX]

That's great info.

Agreed. Really appreciate Justin’s insight here, glad to see him post.
Will be even more glad when this VMP Gen3 makes over 1000rwhp in a few weeks!
-J

 

[RBB]

We couldn't get my KB168 to run right. Goes into failsafe nonstop with P2112 - TB stuck closed as soon as the car gets warm.

I've got a revised VMP 160 unit on the way. They're on backorder and should be here in another week or two. I'll update the thread when it comes in.

 

[2011 gtcs]

We couldn't get my KB168 to run right. One version of the tune had great drivability, but goes into failsafe nonstop with P2112 - TB stuck closed as soon as the car gets warm. The next version doesn't failsafe, but drives like crap.

I've got a revised VMP 160 unit on the way. They're on backorder and should be here in another week or two. I'll update the thread when it comes in.

I'm very interested to hear how the 160 works for you. Maybe I missed it, but who is doing your tuning

 

[RBB]

I'm very interested to hear how the 160 works for you. Maybe I missed it, but who is doing your tuning

Lund

 

[Poisonous West]

Lund

I thought Lund can tune KB 168 easily?

 

[RBB]

I thought Lund can tune KB 168 easily?

Yeah I thought so too. I have a feeling the tune could be dialed in if someone was willing to take the time to do it....

 

[merkyworks]

Yeah I thought so too. I have a feeling the tune could be dialed in if someone was willing to take the time to do it....

Isn't that always the case with most things like this LOL.

 

[biminiLX]

I thought Lund can tune KB 168 easily?

I assume that TB or something with his specific car just needs a tune in person.
My KB168 bolted on and runs perfectly on the same tune as the Whipple 170 TB tune.
-J

 

[2011 gtcs]

Yeah I thought so too. I have a feeling the tune could be dialed in if someone was willing to take the time to do it....

Dude that has been my issue with Lund this whole time. They do one revision and call it good and just say it is what it is. I'm really sick of it. I'm about to have BJ from Venomous tuning do my tune. I'm just not sure how good he is at tuning the big mono blades. But from everything I have heard he seems to be the out there right now, or I'll use palm beach dyno.

 

[RBB]

Dude that has been my issue with Lund this whole time. They do one revision and call it good and just say it is what it is. I'm really sick of it. I'm about to have BJ from Venomous tuning do my tune. I'm just not sure how good he is at tuning the big mono blades. But from everything I have heard he seems to be the out there right now, or I'll use palm beach dyno.

I will say any time Jr has done my tune everything has gone well. The two times he hasn’t there have been problems. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.