Anyone tried or using the revised VMP 160mm TB for the Gen 3? Looking for feedback.
REVISED VMP 160mm TB for Gen 3 - Anyone using it?
- Thread starter Totalpkg
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Buy the Kenne Bell 168 and be done. That's what ive done and love it. I also have adapter flanges to convert Kb bolt pattern to VMP inlet. Pm me if you're interested
I keep hearing they have one working great and to look for the release in a couple weeks. That was over a month ago and still no release.
I'm in no rush...I know about the KB 168, but, I would like to go with the VMP TB to avoid using an adapter. Biggest thing for me is a good working unit.
I called VMP about 2 months ago and was told that 90% of them were working just fine now. When I pressed them for some additional details and was met with non-answers, I figured whoever I was talking to was full of sh*t. Went with the KB.
I got my new VMP 160 Throttlebody on yesterday and did a video of cold start- 3min idle and then a 15min Drive. No beating on the car just normal driving since the tune file in the car is still for the old gen2r and 72mm Tb. Car drove great, no issues or limp mode.
I can’t wait to get the gears swapped so I can load Lund jr revision tune and start the datalogging!
I can’t wait to get the gears swapped so I can load Lund jr revision tune and start the datalogging!
Hilarious. That's what they told me when I bought my gen 3 in August. Gained a whopping 8 whp over my gen 2r set up. Since replaced with kb 3.6.
Another vote for the KB 168. Zero issues on my Lund tune. I'd not worry about the adapter as all it does is realign the bolt pattern to install on the blower but with the KB bolt pattern on the TB side. Kooks used to make a 3/4" thick AL plate that had counter sunk bolts to the head with different bolt pattern on the header side to allow for enlarge ports. The inlet side is not a severe area for gaskets. If it's flat milled & does not leak why wouldn't it work?
Before Hostile made the adapter plates I swapped from VMP 67 to the KB mono. I sold my O-Sized BPS elbow with the Twin 67. I bought the KB Bolt Matching O-Sized Plenum.
Before Hostile made the adapter plates I swapped from VMP 67 to the KB mono. I sold my O-Sized BPS elbow with the Twin 67. I bought the KB Bolt Matching O-Sized Plenum.
Now that the Vmp160 has been revised, it would not make sense to spend more money on a more expensive KB throttle body plus a $100 spacer.
It’s unfortunate that the new line of throttle bodies were not ready when the Gen3 blower debut..... but Justin has made it a priority to get those issues corrected.
Looking forward to seeing what my combo does once I can start datalogging.
So what kind of RWHP you gained after installing the KB 3.6?
+60whp. I decided to do a full build of lower and heads to cover to e85 and reach full potential. IMHO gen3 is not worth it if running pump gas.
You guys would probably not believe this, but our VMP throttle bodies are actually built by the same company as KB. We specced ours with plastic gears that have worked so well on our twin 67s. However, the brass gears everyone complained about early on, actually add a bunch of play, and keep the computer from thinking the TB is "stuck" which results in a P2112 failsafe code.
We have revised our 160s and 173s with the looser brass gears and also a softer spring that allows the motor to more easily close the large blade when returning to idle. The softer spring requires your default angle be set to 0 in the tune, I had HP tuners add this to most codes, and I have an SCT value file for it. This gives the motor much more control at low airflows and keeps it happy. You can tell if your TB has this feature because the little bolt next to the motor will be brass instead of the OE black spring loaded stop screw.
I heard someone mention in another thread their KB 168 could not be tuned...the truth is, with blades this big, we're on the edge of what the factory ECU can control TB size wise. In a high vacuum situation, like idle, or in-gear decel, there is a TON of force on the blade. The motor has to modulate against this vacuum force. Any time you go to aftermarket cams vacuum goes wayyy down, and the blade becomes very easy for the motor to move. There are also some tuning tricks that help things too. The VMP twin 72mm ultimately suffered from the stiff factory stop spring and the vacuum force acting on the almost 3 inch tall blades.
Also keep in mind KB 168s have been out there for nearly 10 years, and there exists a lot of open source type tune information for them. The VMP 160s and 173s are new sizes and have different OL FF and area tables in the ECU. How they are mapped depends greatly on how much vacuum the combination pulls...as that effects airflow at low throttle angles. I have seen very few tuners that truely know how to map large throttle bodies. I can tell you we have several VMP built/tuned cars running 173s with perfect driveability, but they are cammed out 1000+rwhp combos that need as much air as they can get. We have also seen Lund tune the VMP 160 and 173 very well.
That all being said, we only recommend the 160 and 173 if they are appropriate for the combination and it will actually benefit HP-wise from such a large throttle body.
The VMP 67mm, is our old standby, and it can be tuned by anyone. I'll throw a little secret out there, stock data works just fine most of the time.
We are coming out with a VMP 69mm as well, just a little bump over the 67mm, and still super easy to tune with data that is nearly stock.
Knowing what we know now, the VMP twin 72mm would be easy to bring back, but it would have kind of an odd place in the market because we plan to bring out a small monoblade like the Ford Racing CJ unit. That blade is small enough for the electronics to modulate easily, and with what we know now, and the tweaks we plan to make, it will work extremely well on stock camshaft/stock vacuum situations. There is an abundance of tuning info out there for the FRPP mono. Once you go bigger than a twin 65, 67, 69, or go from a small monoblade to a really big one, it really separates the tooners from the tuners.
With all that being said, you can see how bigger is not always better, and be careful what you wish for.
Going forward we are setting up our throttle body line with easy to tune twin blade options, a medium sized option, and a large race option, that is not outside what the electronics/motor can handle even with a lot of vacuum. I believe we'll have the easiest to tune and best performing options out there. All of these new TB options will be out in the next 3-4 months.
We have revised our 160s and 173s with the looser brass gears and also a softer spring that allows the motor to more easily close the large blade when returning to idle. The softer spring requires your default angle be set to 0 in the tune, I had HP tuners add this to most codes, and I have an SCT value file for it. This gives the motor much more control at low airflows and keeps it happy. You can tell if your TB has this feature because the little bolt next to the motor will be brass instead of the OE black spring loaded stop screw.
I heard someone mention in another thread their KB 168 could not be tuned...the truth is, with blades this big, we're on the edge of what the factory ECU can control TB size wise. In a high vacuum situation, like idle, or in-gear decel, there is a TON of force on the blade. The motor has to modulate against this vacuum force. Any time you go to aftermarket cams vacuum goes wayyy down, and the blade becomes very easy for the motor to move. There are also some tuning tricks that help things too. The VMP twin 72mm ultimately suffered from the stiff factory stop spring and the vacuum force acting on the almost 3 inch tall blades.
Also keep in mind KB 168s have been out there for nearly 10 years, and there exists a lot of open source type tune information for them. The VMP 160s and 173s are new sizes and have different OL FF and area tables in the ECU. How they are mapped depends greatly on how much vacuum the combination pulls...as that effects airflow at low throttle angles. I have seen very few tuners that truely know how to map large throttle bodies. I can tell you we have several VMP built/tuned cars running 173s with perfect driveability, but they are cammed out 1000+rwhp combos that need as much air as they can get. We have also seen Lund tune the VMP 160 and 173 very well.
That all being said, we only recommend the 160 and 173 if they are appropriate for the combination and it will actually benefit HP-wise from such a large throttle body.
The VMP 67mm, is our old standby, and it can be tuned by anyone. I'll throw a little secret out there, stock data works just fine most of the time.
We are coming out with a VMP 69mm as well, just a little bump over the 67mm, and still super easy to tune with data that is nearly stock.
Knowing what we know now, the VMP twin 72mm would be easy to bring back, but it would have kind of an odd place in the market because we plan to bring out a small monoblade like the Ford Racing CJ unit. That blade is small enough for the electronics to modulate easily, and with what we know now, and the tweaks we plan to make, it will work extremely well on stock camshaft/stock vacuum situations. There is an abundance of tuning info out there for the FRPP mono. Once you go bigger than a twin 65, 67, 69, or go from a small monoblade to a really big one, it really separates the tooners from the tuners.
With all that being said, you can see how bigger is not always better, and be careful what you wish for.
Going forward we are setting up our throttle body line with easy to tune twin blade options, a medium sized option, and a large race option, that is not outside what the electronics/motor can handle even with a lot of vacuum. I believe we'll have the easiest to tune and best performing options out there. All of these new TB options will be out in the next 3-4 months.
Great info! ^*
Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Justin, how would I go about getting this lighter spring for my 72 mm TB? I'd like to experiment with it.
Great info thanks for sharing.
Do you have long tubes?
How are you gauging boost? DO NOT rely on the factory gauge. If you had the factory throttle body on it, you'd be over 18 psi with a Gen 3 and a 2.6.
Yes, I have ARH 1 7/8 headers with there OFR H pipe and a Kenne bell bigun intercooler. I know that will lower my boost no matter what.
I have a Autometer boost gauge, I vacuum and pressure tested it to make sure it's accurate. With my Trinity TVS and a 2.39 pulley I was seeing 13psi, with the Gen3 and a 2.8 I was seeing 13 to 14 psi, now with the 2.6 I'm seeing 15 maybe 16psi.
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