NX with BBR tune vs N.O. with AED tune?

[Shaun@AED]

First, I want to thank all of our customer's for the support and how happy you are with your tune and NX systems.

With nitrous, over the past months, we have worked very closely with our customers, some of our cars, and NX on creating some of the best set ups out there with using nitrous. NX has been around for a long time and used by some of the big names out there in racing (even street outlaws). They do not take a short corner with designing ANYTHING they make. It has proven itself on the coyote based motors too.

Chris has tuned so many nitrous cars that I honetly do not have the time to go through his computer to collect the results. But in the real world, not 1 and I mean that, has had a problem or complaint. Esp about this "lean spike" that is being used way to much. It actually makes me laugh. Esp with the NX solenoids are attached to the plate so it has no travel time. Now..... if the tune is wrong... I can see a lean spike but we have not had that problems with NX or any of our customers.

Now... NO makes some nice stuff. I do like it and Chris has tuned multi cars with it and have had no issues with them. It does work. I would love to see one get down the track soon. No matter who tunes it. Maybe we can get a magazine to do a VS article on them. A battle we would love to see.

The proper fuel mods for E85 & nitrous is not what people are thinking. You run a larger injector and thats it. A BAP is not needed but can be added for extra insurance.

The last thing I want to get into is the "proper" datalogging and saying people are doing it wrong. I have to object and stand for them and say our customers are doing it right. Chris is having them log the correct information every time and the results are going down the track.


OP, if you have any questions on our tuning and NX systems, please shoot us a call. I would enjoy the conversation and get your car dialed in as well with spending the least amount of money.

Thanks

Please explain how a tune can cause a lean spike when the nitrous first hits.

 

[D.T.R]

 

[Nitrous Outlet]

What is the 125hp shot jet size on just reg fuel ? I didn't think nitrous outlet offrred 125shot. Atleast I didn't see it in my kit

On pump gas, the 125HP should be a 33F jet.

 

[SteveG@Lethal]

Please explain how a tune can cause a lean spike when the nitrous first hits.

I am not the tuner but when Chris tunes the NX kits or any other system or any other system, he knows what to do and keep it from happening. If you want, you can call Chris and he can help you with this.

561-417-5555 ext 304

and to keep this from turning into a interesting debate, nothing else really needs to be said. We both know how we stand on nitrous and so does everyone else.

 

[Need4Speed03]

Please explain how a tune can cause a lean spike when the nitrous first hits.

I'm curious...please explain on the NO kit how the 1000psi nitrous doesn't win the drag race with the 55psi fuel getting to the motor first (the solenoids are approx 6" from the plate and plumbed with hardlines), the jets are at the plate.

On the NX kit you cant get the fuel or nitrous any closer...the jets are right at the solenoids which are an integrated part of the plate itself.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I'm curious...please explain on the NO kit how the 1000psi nitrous doesn't win the drag race with the 55psi fuel getting to the motor first (the solenoids are approx 6" from the plate and plumbed with hardlines), the jets are at the plate.

On the NX kit you cant get the fuel or nitrous any closer...the jets are right at the solenoids which are an integrated part of the plate itself.

Contact Dave at Nitrous Outlet for an explination.
I don't know what the difference is, but I see it in the data logs and that's all I care about.

 

[Blazer707@TBR]

I'm curious...please explain on the NO kit how the 1000psi nitrous doesn't win the drag race with the 55psi fuel getting to the motor first (the solenoids are approx 6" from the plate and plumbed with hardlines), the jets are at the plate.

On the NX kit you cant get the fuel or nitrous any closer...the jets are right at the solenoids which are an integrated part of the plate itself.

Your acting like shaun designed the kit and has the ****ing blueprints in his back pocket. Hes a tuner not a vendor.

 

[beefcake]

Your acting like shaun designed the kit and has the ****ing blueprints in his back pocket. Hes a tuner not a vendor.

are we about to agree for once?

lol

:rockon:

 

[Nitro Dave]

You guys are beating a dead horse.

Look. We were contacted and told there was an issue using a wet system on the Coyote platform. We had not seen this issue with our product but we are always open ears. So we contacted many of the Ford performance shops we wholesale to in order to find out if they were seeing an issue using our products. Not one of them were seeing any issues. So we had Central Texas performance find a stock application and perform a install and tune for testing purposes. The testing did not show a lean spike issue either. So to all of our knowledge and research there is no lean spike with our design.

As to other companies products and what they do.... We have claimed nothing. All I can say is that the ones claiming to have lean spike issues were not using our system.

I'm not going to sit here and tear apart another Vendors product. That would not be very professional. I'm just going to say that our product is designed the way it is for a reason and it does not take a rocket scientist to see our product will out flow any of the other designs out there.

By placing the jet at our plate we are able to supply liquid nitrous through our plate with less flow restriction therefore preventing the issue of premature phase change and slowing down the fuel flow or nitrous flow in the plate.

Dave

 

[beefcake]

You guys are beating a dead horse.

Look. We were contacted and told there was an issue using a wet system on the Coyote platform. We had not seen this issue with our product but we are always open ears. So we contacted many of the Ford performance shops we wholesale to in order to find out if they were seeing an issue using our products. Not one of them were seeing any issues. So we had Central Texas performance find a stock application and perform a install and tune for testing purposes. The testing did not show a lean spike issue either. So to all of our knowledge and research there is no lean spike with our design.

As to other companies products and what they do.... We have claimed nothing. All I can say is that the ones claiming to have lean spike issues were not using our system.

I'm not going to sit here and tear apart another Vendors product. That would not be very professional. I'm just going to say that our product is designed the way it is for a reason and it does not take a rocket scientist to see our product will out flow any of the other designs out there.

By placing the jet at our plate we are able to supply liquid nitrous through our plate with less flow restriction therefore preventing the issue of premature phase change and slowing down the fuel flow or nitrous flow in the plate.

Dave

:beer:

 

[Shaun@AED]

I just sent a few logs to Steve @BBR to show him what I've been seeing (Below). He will be sending me some logs back of what they see.

Below is a log of an NX plate kit a guy sent to me. I can not remember who tuned it.
Brown trace is RPM
Dark Green is Throttle position
Yellow is Measured air fuel
Light Blue is Short term fuel trims

Notice the lean Measured air fuel and Spike in Short term fuel trims from the ECU trying to compensate for the lean condition.

 

[Blazer707@TBR]

are we about to agree for once?

lol

:rockon:

Haha we agree on stuff every once in awhile.

 

[JUIC3D]

You guys are beating a dead horse.

Look. We were contacted and told there was an issue using a wet system on the Coyote platform. We had not seen this issue with our product but we are always open ears. So we contacted many of the Ford performance shops we wholesale to in order to find out if they were seeing an issue using our products. Not one of them were seeing any issues. So we had Central Texas performance find a stock application and perform a install and tune for testing purposes. The testing did not show a lean spike issue either. So to all of our knowledge and research there is no lean spike with our design.

As to other companies products and what they do.... We have claimed nothing. All I can say is that the ones claiming to have lean spike issues were not using our system.

I'm not going to sit here and tear apart another Vendors product. That would not be very professional. I'm just going to say that our product is designed the way it is for a reason and it does not take a rocket scientist to see our product will out flow any of the other designs out there.

By placing the jet at our plate we are able to supply liquid nitrous through our plate with less flow restriction therefore preventing the issue of premature phase change and slowing down the fuel flow or nitrous flow in the plate.

Dave

I only have a couple questions and/or clarifications.

1) Phase change--does the phase change in the nitrous when it goes from a liquid to a gas make it 'speed up' or 'slow down'?

2) Can you explain how Central Texas Performance picked up 140whp on a supposed .052 nitrous pill? Every other person I've spoken with and my own personal experience picks up right at ~100whp on the same size nitrous jetting and the same motor on both the NO and NX kit?

I'm not saying it would be deliberate, but perhaps the wrong jets were installed? Your kit would have come with jetting for the 150 shot which would be right in line with those reported gains. It doesn't seem fair to other NO customers who purchase a kit on the belief that they would experience similar results out of a "100 shot" only to find out that they do in fact need to pill it up to see those same gains.

 

[Shaun@AED]

Wow, I look like an asshole in this thread.

I'd like to publicly apologize to Nitrous Express (and other N2O kit manufactures) for any bashing of their product I have done in this thread. That was not the intent and I apologize for that.

In an effort to put this to rest I'm offering FREE DYNO TIME WITH DATA LOGS to ALL Nitrous Coyotes in-house at AED. With the caveat that Data logs and pertainant information will be posted publicly on this board.

I don't care what Nitrous kit and tune you have, be it NO, NX, NOS, home made, etc. Bring it in, we will strap it down and get some numbers and logs all at NO CHARGE.

 

[nonliberal]

Wow, I look like an asshole in this thread.

.

Not really. A good Doctor wouldn't recommend a patient doing something they thought was bad for them, and a good tuner wouldn't reccomend a customer do something that they thought was bad for their car.

If this if this is really an issue or not can still be determined, but the point is you are doing what you think is right for your customers and for your reputation. Thats what is most important to me and my car.

 

[CGSB]

I got asked to upload the times for my wife's 2011 5.0 manual by John at Nitrous Outlet. My wife's car was stock (aside from axlebacks, lowering springs and running full slicks). The left time slip is with a 100 shot with no tune and the right time slip is with no tune N/A. When we had the kit installed we did it with the intentions to show people that (this is going to sound crazy to some) you didn't need a tune to install nitrous (100 shot wet). My wife's numbers went from 383/390 to 519/556! I was highly impressed and Jeff from Central Texas Performance put it on the dyno to ensure that the AFR's were good. He also took 2 degrees of timing away to be on the safe side.

[/URL]

 

[v8stang]

Wow, I look like an asshole in this thread.

I'd like to publicly apologize to Nitrous Express (and other N2O kit manufactures) for any bashing of their product I have done in this thread. That was not the intent and I apologize for that.

In an effort to put this to rest I'm offering FREE DYNO TIME WITH DATA LOGS to ALL Nitrous Coyotes in-house at AED. With the caveat that Data logs and pertainant information will be posted publicly on this board.

I don't care what Nitrous kit and tune you have, be it NO, NX, NOS, home made, etc. Bring it in, we will strap it down and get some numbers and logs all at NO CHARGE.

How about a discounted e85 nitrous tune for me since im the OP?
I can provide all the logs you want lol

:beer:

 

[125oh]

Those are great numbers cgsb you have 9hp and 40ftlbs more than mine and mine has more mods . Off road x , boss intake . And cold air . I do know my tuner pulled 4degrees timing but that can't be the reason

 

[Shaun@AED]

How about a discounted e85 nitrous tune for me since im the OP?
I can provide all the logs you want lol

:beer:

I'll go one better and do a Free Nitrous tune, but it must be in-house as I want to be there to ensure quality testing / logs.

 

[Need4Speed03]

Your acting like shaun designed the kit and has the ****ing blueprints in his back pocket. Hes a tuner not a vendor.

No not at all. Just when somebody says something is superior to everything else on the market I'd like to know why/how. Another interesting question is if the mili-second lean spikes do exist on most set-ups, what exactly is it hurting? Because there are no reports of damage or burnt plugs out there.