My Race Red Track Pack 2016 GT350

[Tob]

Sounds like the trucks work differently than manually shifter passenger cars, or at the very least Ford's Mustang manual applications. Thanks for the kind words Ruben!


So... I've had the R model red calipers laying around for months now. It hasn't been the couch/bon bons that encouraged the slow going but rather a hardware package I've been working on. If you can spot the deviations you probably spend far too much time within the community. For that, I laud you.

 

[liter of cola]

Whats with the sway bar links? Are they just for sex factor or do they actually make a differance? Also whats up with the caliper studs? You couldnt use the ones from the standard 350 calipers?

 

[GUY WAGNER]

When will the studs be available Tob?

 

[JAJ]

From the look of the wheel well, I think your car needs to get out of the garage more often!

 

[Tob]

Whats with the sway bar links? Are they just for sex factor or do they actually make a differance? Also whats up with the caliper studs? You couldn't use the ones from the standard 350 calipers?

The sway bar end links are from Bruce at Full Tilt Boogie. Just the kind of overkill I prefer. The stock ones look like underfed bananas in comparison. The FTBR units use a high quality rod end/machined billet sleeve and capscrew/hex tubing in between. Bind-free articulation and no flex. Write-up on them to come. And yes, they are sexy too.

Caliper studs have been a months long project in the works. I received my first shipment a few days ago.

The factory Ford fastener that joins the caliper to the knuckle is a bolt. The issue is that you are threading into aluminum each and every time you want to change your brake pads. The torque figure is 136 lb-ft, rather high. Damage the threads and you're screwed. The studs I designed alleviate the issue and allow a stronger connection between the two. The studs guide the caliper into place and keep the torque loads in only one plane. A much better way to fasten the calipers that allows quicker access to your brake pads.

When will the studs be available Tob?

I have a shipment of phosphate coated 4340 steel studs on the way. I'll let you know when I have those.

From the look of the wheel well, I think your car needs to get out of the garage more often!

Every time I have the wheels off, etc, I scrub that area down. I like my hardware clean!

 

[JAJ]

...Every time I have the wheels off, etc, I scrub that area down. I like my hardware clean!

Fair enough, but it was the condition of the brake disc that caught my attention - the friction ring and the hat both look like they just rolled out of the showroom - or did you put new ones on to match the shiny new calipers?

A question about the studs - what was the attraction to phosphated steel?

 

[Tob]

The friction ring is fairly good at "self-cleaning" every time you drive the car. As far as the hat...with most any bare aluminum parts on the car, I hit them with a quick coat of high temperature clear the moment I get the car home. That includes underneath the car, various suspension components, etc. The wheel hub faces and hat faces get an oil mist followed by a wipe-down with a clean rag. The oil gets in the grain and helps to keep the dissimilar metals from attempting to bond (I've seen this happen way too many times where you can't get a wheel or rotor off the car as they are frozen together). I was a Millwright for many years and learned quite a bit and have been able to transfer much of it towards any work done on vehicles.

As far as the studs go, I had two different materials used. The type I just installed are annealed 17-4 PH stainless steel with rolled threads. High strength and corrosive resistant, they should serve well in this application. They have a tensile strength of 150,000psi and a Rockwell Hardness of 33 to 35. The caveat is you have to be wary to not boink the threads with the caliper, etc.

The second set (which I hope to have by the beginning of next week) are aircraft grade 4340. Heat treated to 38-40 Rockwell and with 180,000psi tensile strength. They are slightly tougher than the stainless. The coating is actually a "Manganese Phosphate" coating. Technically referred to as a dry film surface coating, it provides increased protection against corrosion as well as galling. Manganese is preferred over zinc because it's better at minimizing or reducing friction and wear. The name of the company that treated the studs after machining is HM Elliott.
http://www.hmelliottcoatings.com/descriptions.html

Does that help?

 

[JAJ]

The friction ring is fairly good at "self-cleaning" every time you drive the car. As far as the hat...with most any bare aluminum parts on the car, I hit them with a quick coat of high temperature clear the moment I get the car home. That includes underneath the car, various suspension components, etc. The wheel hub faces and hat faces get an oil mist followed by a wipe-down with a clean rag. The oil gets in the grain and helps to keep the dissimilar metals from attempting to bond (I've seen this happen way too many times where you can't get a wheel or rotor off the car as they are frozen together). I was a Millwright for many years and learned quite a bit and have been able to transfer much of it towards any work done on vehicles.

As far as the studs go, I had two different materials used. The type I just installed are annealed 17-4 PH stainless steel with rolled threads. High strength and corrosive resistant, they should serve well in this application. They have a tensile strength of 150,000psi and a Rockwell Hardness of 33 to 35. The caveat is you have to be wary to not boink the threads with the caliper, etc.

The second set (which I hope to have by the beginning of next week) are aircraft grade 4340. Heat treated to 38-40 Rockwell and with 180,000psi tensile strength. They are slightly tougher than the stainless. The coating is actually a "Manganese Phosphate" coating. Technically referred to as a dry film surface coating, it provides increased protection against corrosion as well as galling. Manganese is preferred over zinc because it's better at minimizing or reducing friction and wear. The name of the company that treated the studs after machining is HM Elliott.
http://www.hmelliottcoatings.com/descriptions.html

Does that help?

That's a clever solution on the anti-crud treatment - Fords tend to rust pretty quickly underneath. I've always been reticent to get too close to the brakes with anything oily but I usually coat the hub face behind the rotor hat with a light coating of anti-seize the first time I have the brakes apart (ie - in the first few weeks of ownership).

On the studs, thanks for the thorough explanation. I figured you chose steel because it's stronger and more fatigue resistant (it is, isn't it?). As for the "stainless" part, despite the cleverly chosen name, I've seen jet nuts develop a light coating of corrosion and get thoroughly stuck to stainless caliper studs, so again I figured the answer was that the phosphated steel was actually better than stainless for this application. I think that's what you said, isn't it?

 

[Tob]

I'm an anti-seize fanatic too. I smear a very thin coating on the inside of the wheel hub face as well. I'm using it on the studs too on the register for the caliper bolt/stud bore to allow ease of removal.

While I don't see the 17-4 as ever having a fatigue issue in this application, the 4340 is technically superior in this regard. The studs are in tension only and have a rather wide centerline from stud to stud so I don't see them as ever getting overstressed (unless someone decides to overtorque them until they yield).

I have some Jetnuts that I picked up as I do like their locking feature. However their cross section is extremely thin in some areas. They also lose their "locking" advantage with use and are supposed to be replaced when they no longer meet spec. I've gone back and forth with them and decided to stick with the 12pt ARP nuts for now.

I can't say that the MP 4340 is better than the 17-4 PH. They each have their advantages. Hence getting both.

 

[Tob]

I've not had much time earmarked for getting this done but am trying to get something done every day. My two assistants are either on sabbatical or having a siesta. Hence the slow go.

The rear brake swap would have been quick were it not for the e-brake cable. You have to have your thinking cap on with this one.

I gotta say - the Brembo hardware is extremely well engineered. Robust and very user friendly. These really are some great calipers. Swapping internals is simple.

Same for driver's front...

All the better with a mix of custom 17-4 PH badassery for good measure.

 

[5 DOT 0]

Removing the e brake cable and that bracket are a PITA.

 

[M91196]

Thread de rail-
Always glad when I get a notification that there is activity in this thread.
You've had the lift for a few months, meet your needs and expectations?
Thanks

 

[50 Deep]

Good work on the stud setup. Keep me in mind when you get the next shipment. The brake swap is easy except for the brake cable

 

[Imatk]

Is it me or do those rear brakes have brake shoes on them??

 

[ac427cobra]

Is it me or do those rear brakes have brake shoes on them??

That's the rear e-brake.

 

[Imatk]

That's interesting... so instead of using the brake caliper they're using a separate system.

 

[SonicDTR]

That's interesting... so instead of using the brake caliper they're using a separate system.

Pretty standard, i've seen it on quite a few vehicles.

 

[Imatk]

Pretty standard, i've seen it on quite a few vehicles.

Yeah I'm not as familiar.

With the '07 they use the caliper so that's what I'm used to... my fox body already has rear drums so didn't really apply.

 

[ac427cobra]

That's interesting... so instead of using the brake caliper they're using a separate system.

The four pot fixed Brembo caliper allows for no means of an e-brake system like other single piston floating rear calipers found on almost all other Mustangs.

 

[Imatk]

The four pot fixed Brembo caliper allows for no means of an e-brake system like other single piston floating rear calipers found on almost all other Mustangs.

Well not on the 2005-2009 Mustangs. The ebrake uses the piston in the single-piston caliper to apply the e-brake.

Edit... actually I think this also applies to 2010-2014 cars if I'm not mistaken.

Not sure about the 2015-Up.

So maybe not "almost all other Mustangs"