I've yet to see anyone argue the R is slower, has less grip, etc. Please point it out if you have. You're referring to that factual information I discussed on page 3.
Motortrend: "...best drivers cars in world..."
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Anyone versed in physics understands why the gt350r has a noticibly lighter, more direct, and faster/more confidence inspiring driving character than a 350.
-it's about 60lbs lighter at the feet. That is hnsprung weight. Tires alone will never approach that difference.
-it's tires are formulated for the character of the car. This takes into account many variable. It's why simply putting r888's or nt01's on a gt350 won't make up the difference.
-it's suspension calibration has been accordingly reprogrammed to work well with the unsprung weight difference and overall package.
-it has a lot more downforce and aerodynamic efficiency for handling and grip. It's a smooth balance of total form, not just a wing and splitter.
-it is a little lighter, regardless of the wheels, and a little more powerful.
That all said, the gt350 with a track or tech pack is, IMO, a better value than 99% of performance cars in the world today. I do want to see direct injection and cyl deactivation, a 4.10 rear, and stiffer bushings as an option, but it's amazing as is.
If someone can honestly critic the driving experience of a gt350 tech or track pack car after a well round track and street drive, then they are biased or ridiculous.
-it's about 60lbs lighter at the feet. That is hnsprung weight. Tires alone will never approach that difference.
-it's tires are formulated for the character of the car. This takes into account many variable. It's why simply putting r888's or nt01's on a gt350 won't make up the difference.
-it's suspension calibration has been accordingly reprogrammed to work well with the unsprung weight difference and overall package.
-it has a lot more downforce and aerodynamic efficiency for handling and grip. It's a smooth balance of total form, not just a wing and splitter.
-it is a little lighter, regardless of the wheels, and a little more powerful.
That all said, the gt350 with a track or tech pack is, IMO, a better value than 99% of performance cars in the world today. I do want to see direct injection and cyl deactivation, a 4.10 rear, and stiffer bushings as an option, but it's amazing as is.
If someone can honestly critic the driving experience of a gt350 tech or track pack car after a well round track and street drive, then they are biased or ridiculous.
R is more powerful? Since when? Better power to weight but not more power.
This whole thing started because an owner said he does not want stats he want a great driving car that is pure pleasure to drive fast or slow. To him the 350 was better than the R in this department. After hearing all the reviews I would have to agree. It's a better car to drive than the z28 or z06. Some have said its more comfortable than the high class Porsches. Pure drive it's well passed the nanny car that is the gtr.
On the racetrack this conclusion may change. Everyday driver on real roads the GT350 is a hell of car to drive!
This whole thing started because an owner said he does not want stats he want a great driving car that is pure pleasure to drive fast or slow. To him the 350 was better than the R in this department. After hearing all the reviews I would have to agree. It's a better car to drive than the z28 or z06. Some have said its more comfortable than the high class Porsches. Pure drive it's well passed the nanny car that is the gtr.
On the racetrack this conclusion may change. Everyday driver on real roads the GT350 is a hell of car to drive!
Jesus man, slightly more power is actually put to the ground, due to less parasitic loss from the drivetrain, thanks to the significantly lighter wheels combo.
There you go again with YOUR OPINION. This one made me LoL...
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Actually, Pericak made the statement that the R would make slightly more power due to reduced restriction in the exhaust tract on the R vs the regular GT350. I can't find the direct quote (it's out there) but here's a quick summation.
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_s...learned-about-the-ford-shelby-gt350r-mustang/
The gt350r's have been dynoing a few whp higher than gt350's, like 5-10whp, since launch. Motortrend had the same result. It's a little more powerful, or a little better at getting the power to the ground. It's probably a combo of the resonator delete and lighter wheels.
I think a gt350 is a great car. I'd love long term to acquire a tech pack R though. There is nothing in the tech R that is less desirable as a street car than the gt350, apart from the rear seat, but ford has a kit to reinstall it. I think it should be a factory option, I'm sure most dealerships would gladly handle the install to make it convenient.
I have nothing against gt350 owners, it's more of an ego thing in my opinion to get the r, I just like speccing the boxes. We live once, tomato tomawtoe.
Id agree that it's a more rewarding/engaging experience than a z06, it's arguably better or worse to have less torque, but more linearity and finesse. It's driver dependent. I would bet money that more people would enjoy the gt350's driving experience if:
-they like momentum driving
-toe heel shifting and are great with a manual
-naturally aspirated power delivery
-more and more elements in line with the above.
The z06 is no slouch or idiot mobile, it is faster, and quicker, more focused, and arguably just as good if not better value, so long as your z06 isn't the one blowing up or overheating.
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5-10whp on an inertial dyno with lighter wheels doesn't really translate one to one in terms of actual additional power being put to the ground. Most of the R's advantage in the 0-60 is the wider, sticker, and smaller diameter rear tires(and less weight of course). Passing times are identical meaning little to no power output difference.
I see dyno results, I go with the results.
The dyno difference is so small that it wouldn't show up on a 40-60 pull in a 470whp car. 5whp in a test like that would be like the difference of 15lbs in the car.
On a 20-120 test, an r should reach it about a 1/4 second or so faster.
The trap speeds suggest the weight and power difference is enough for 2-3mph at the end of 1320ft. The time differences have been about 1/2-1/3 of a second as well.
I do agree the grip greatly helps the 0-60 or even more so 60ft time.
Fact still remains r's do dyno slightly higher. I'm going to stand by my comment that they are slightly more powerful. It's easier to say gt350r's make about 5whp more than it is to go into all the science of why it accelerates a little faster. The average person is going to have the explanation go over their head, and the fact will still remain the r's dyno slightly higher.
I will say I have almost no doubt that r's and 350's have the exact same engine. I think the unsprung weight, resonator delete and wheels/tire height are where the power difference is coming from in that order.
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Are you stating Ford purposely saved the higher output 5.2 just for the R or are you saying there is a difference between the motors?
How many dyno figures have you compared?
My impatience in reading showed. As did my skipping responses as I did not see the different exhausts from the base to the R.
My point being moot now was that just reading a few dynos won't tell you the entire story. :beer:
How many dyno figures have you compared?
My impatience in reading showed. As did my skipping responses as I did not see the different exhausts from the base to the R.
My point being moot now was that just reading a few dynos won't tell you the entire story. :beer:
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Edited to delete. I thought you were being sarcastic.
I had said I think the engines are the same, but the difference of whp between r's non r's comes from unsprung weight, resonator delete, and wheel height in that order.
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One more thing. Show me where I was wrong. You're still backpedaling while trying make yourself look like "the bigger man." Please. If you had to delete whatever you posted the first time, you must really be stewing in this. Just admit your assumption of what I said was wrong and move on. That's all you have to do. You're the bigger man. It should be easy for you.
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