MotorTrend 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Shelby GT500

[MachME]

Blown, heavy cars are not road course cars. Heat soak is a bitch that makes consistency go out the window. If I wanted a car for road course duty then I would be getting a ZO6 or a LS Boss.

Really? Why did the gt500 get upgraded cooling? Why does it have huge brakes? Why do they offer a track pack which has an external oil, trans fluid and diff cooler? Why is the suspension set up for handling?

 

[02SILVERBULLET]

IIRC i think the ZL1 is running retarded sticky tires like pilot sport cups. Compare with the same model tire id like to see what happens...

As far as the brakes go, id bet the mustang pads are way more street friendly. carbon or stintered pads and lots of the fade will go away and far out brake the maro'

easy and cheap fixes.

 

[Snagged]

Really? Why did the gt500 get upgraded cooling? Why does it have huge brakes? Why do they offer a track pack which has an external oil, trans fluid and diff cooler? Why is the suspension set up for handling?

I know all the wonderful upgrades you can get with the GT500. You can run them 24/7 on a road course if you would like. Blown cars are just not ideal for road course work lap after lap after lap. Heat soak sets in and kills your lap time. N/A is a better application for that type of thing. Doesn't mean the two cars can't make their way around a track. The GT500 and ZL1 both do very well with this.

 

[Snagged]

IIRC i think the ZL1 is running retarded sticky tires like pilot sport cups. Compare with the same model tire id like to see what happens...

As far as the brakes go, id bet the mustang pads are way more street friendly. carbon or stintered pads and lots of the fade will go away and far out brake the maro'

easy and cheap fixes.

I thought both cars used the same tires with just different sizes.

Also, this is the first I've heard of brake fade problems with the GT500. Not saying it doesn't have fade issues but who knows what those people put that car through before they hit the track with it.

 

[Cobra8urZ06]

With just exhaust, the ZL1 would kill it in a 1 lap race. You would need more then that with the GT500. Handling\Power or just brute power? You choose. Heavier, less power, yet it would still win STOCK in a 3 lap race. Or 1 lap on a bigger track. Anyone can be fast in a straight line.

:bs: Where's your proof? Thats like me saying a full bolt on, suspension, bigs n littles and tuned 13 gt500 would beat a zr1 in a straight line who cares these are STOCK for STOCK comparisons!!! I think it's funny gm had to put a blower on a camaro to make it "decently" quick.......wait weren't all the gm crybabies saying that in 03????

 

[Svt4ever22]

:bs: Where's your proof? Thats like me saying a full bolt on, suspension, bigs n littles and tuned 13 gt500 would beat a zr1 in a straight line who cares these are STOCK for STOCK comparisons!!! I think it's funny gm had to put a blower on a camaro to make it "decently" quick.......wait weren't all the gm crybabies saying that in 03????

It would beat it in a 3 lap race, stock. Even with the hp\weight disadvantage it still was holding its own. It's like a vette vs a viper. Smooth, refined handling vs just brute force, suicide.

 

[bubbrubb]

Anyone can be fast in a straight line.

And yet despite that wisdom, the ZL1 just went 0 for 12 against the GT500 thus far in magazines that have demonstrated bias in their verdicts :shrug:

So, in a nutshell: Performance car magazines have decided that performance cars are no longer ranked for their performance. Good to know. Anybody wanna thumb through those magazine and count up the difference in GM advertisements and Ford advertisements, as well as their respective placements?

 

[snakezilla]

:shrug:.

 

[Snagged]

And yet despite that wisdom, the ZL1 just went 0 for 12 against the GT500 thus far in magazines that have demonstrated bias in their verdicts :shrug:

So, in a nutshell: Performance car magazines have decided that performance cars are no longer ranked for their performance. Good to know. Anybody wanna thumb through those magazine and count up the difference in GM advertisements and Ford advertisements, as well as their respective placements?

Lol, I noticed all the GM ads when reading the article online. You don't want to think a magazine would be biased towards a manufacturer based on them buying ads in a magazine, but you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[Fast Freddy]

even with the stock pads/fluid i just find it hard to believe 15" 6 piston brembo brakes get that bad after 1 lap..

+ 1

 

[95SC]

It would beat it in a 3 lap race, stock. Even with the hp\weight disadvantage it still was holding its own. It's like a vette vs a viper. Smooth, refined handling vs just brute force, suicide.

In a magazine tests yes ,they can say whatever they want .

In real live with private owners cars looks like ZL1 is a fail at the road coarse

No magazine BS crap here

this was posted awhile ago

Also, you obviously do a little too much magazine reading. The Boss does not get eaten up at the track. I was Buttonwillow last weekend, and saw stock Bosses (first time being out), running 1:54's. I was running 1:50's in my Laguna Seca. There was a new ZL1 in our class, with the best of a 1:59, and 2:01. The ZL1 owner was dis-apointed, especially how inconsistent the car was, throughout the day and its braking.

and this today

Pleasure meeting Van and RDSNK46. Van your car is badass. The ZL1 kept over heating and had some issues. .

We are done. The ZL1 was having heat soak issues and I didn't feel heat soak with the GT500 during the sessions. I have Zero brake fade. The ZL1 has Zero brake fade.

Phinhead got it right. They were impressed with the GT500 and feel like they have some improvements to make in the cooling system on the ZL1.

I'll add more later. I did ride one session with Erik and I was impressed with the Mag ride on turn in particular to turns 6 & 7.

Van

Revan Racing 2013 GT500 takes on TORQ 2012 ZL1 - YouTube

 

[Snagged]

In a magazine tests yes ,they can say whatever they want .

In real live with private owners cars looks like ZL1 is a fail at the road coarse

No magazine BS crap here

this was posted awhile ago

and this today

Revan Racing 2013 GT500 takes on TORQ 2012 ZL1 - YouTube

I will go ahead and tack onto what you put.


In reference to the ZL1 having heat soak issues at the track at Homestead on 6/30/2012:

The ZL1had an Afco H/E w/dual fans already which incresaed the system volume by one gallon.

Just got home. Unloaded the car and taking care of some stuff here and then I'll start the video process. I can honestly say the car performed above my expectations against the ZL1 considering I'm running an email tune and a resonator delete. The issue of brake fade I think was either cooked OEM fluid or lack of prep prior to the testing. These brakes work awesome and I pushed them hard today just for that lone fact that MT stated brake fade. I just cancelled my subscription to Motor Trend. LOL

Link to thread:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-vs-torq-zl1-track-homestead-6-30-2012-a.html

Starting to see why we only heard about brake fading from only one source (which would be Motor Trend). :bored:

 

[UncleAnt]

Revan Racing 2013 GT500 takes on TORQ 2012 ZL1 - YouTube

ahaha that red cup car 458 was stupid fast!

 

[Black*Death]

I read the C&D article comparo...They seemed to award the win to the ZL1 for it's more progressive design and "raising the bar" of muscle cars to the realm of "sports cars"???

Sounds to me that C&D is using the old excuse.

" I know she is fat but she has a cute face." They know the the GT500 is better at muscle car like racing..drag strip, acceleration. The GT500 more than holds its own on the track as well.

 

[Kewlv8]

In a magazine tests yes ,they can say whatever they want .

In real live with private owners cars looks like ZL1 is a fail at the road coarse

]

Zl1 continues to suck balls in the real world. Wow, I am surprised. Not.

 

[FATlaws]

I don't know how they could actually judge the GT500 as such. So basically they did performance tests on these two performance cars and picked the winner based on it being more like a luxury car than the other?:shrug:

 

[backinastang]

LOL! Stop reading magizines if it's going to bother you that much. I know the ZL1, CTS-V and Vette have better brakes. One time stop does a race not make. I know that IRS is a better set up for track and inspires more confidence. Having said that. The ZL1 is not as good looking. It get less gas milage, has crappy visability and it suffers from wheel hop. I like 1/4 racing and goofing around in my car. For the average joe the GT500 is the better ride. If I had a membership to a race track I might feel different but I don't and I bet most of us don't. It's about what you like, PERIOD!

 

[Mach1USMC]

perfect timing. someone just tried arguing with me about these two.. too bad there's no video

Ford Shelby GT500 vs Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! - Head 2 Head Episode 11 - YouTube

I think if the Shelby had IRS and better brakes it would have won hands down. The issue that kept up coming up over and over again was consistency. The GT500 could lay down a "hero run" or two at first but as the brakes faded so did the times. Where as the ZL1 while being a bit slower in both the qtr AND the track (139.2 vs 138.7 for the GT500) it did it more consistently. Ironic that Randy said upgrade the brakes and the GT500 wins. Come on Ford, get those brakes sorted!! (I'd still like to see IRS in the Shelby but I know that's not a popular idea here)

 

[Snagged]

Ford Shelby GT500 vs Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! - Head 2 Head Episode 11 - YouTube

I think if the Shelby had IRS and better brakes it would have won hands down. The issue that kept up coming up over and over again was consistency. The GT500 could lay down a "hero run" or two at first but as the brakes faded so did the times. Where as the ZL1 while being a bit slower in both the qtr AND the track (139.2 vs 138.7 for the GT500) it did it more consistently. Ironic that Randy said upgrade the brakes and the GT500 wins. Come on Ford, get those brakes sorted!! (I'd still like to see IRS in the Shelby but I know that's not a popular idea here)

Don't be so quick to jump on the "GT500 needing a better brake setup" bandwagon. Motor Trend is the only source to report brake fade from the GT500. The 3 other sources that did tests with the GT500 didn't report any break fade issues. I suspect Motor Trend beat the living piss out of the GT500 and then handed it over to Randy Pobst.

 

[Mach1USMC]

Don't be so quick to jump on the "GT500 needing a better brake setup" bandwagon. Motor Trend is the only source to report brake fade from the GT500. The 3 other sources that did tests with the GT500 didn't report any break fade issues. I suspect Motor Trend beat the living piss out of the GT500 and then handed it over to Randy Pobst.

I did get sucked in a bit - after reading your and Revans posts it makes me wonder a bit what MT was talking about. Also makes me wonder what package Randy Probst was driving..... or do all GT500's come with the same brake package:shrug: