More 9-11 Consiracy explained....

[Msyticgold]

With stupid replies like the ones above its no wonder our country is as ****ed as it is..

I have to say I agree with you. There is just too much supporting evidence out there in my opinion. People who just dismiss the fact something doesn't seem right about it to me seems like they are just afraid to admit, if anything, some of the truths. It's not like it's unheard of for our government, or any for that matter, to flat out lie.

The govt isn't just one entity. You have way too many people within the govt w/ differing opinions just like on this board. It would be impossible to keep such a huge and dark secret like 911 wrapped up for too long within an institute where there is alot of differences in opinion. articularly when it does with killing tons of innocent people. Its like saying that we have a bunch of sadistic murderers that somehow were able to get hired by our govt despite securty screening measures who at the same time have had this lifelong desire to kill a bunch Americans so that they can change the way we live for just 8 years. :bored: It just doesnt ring for me. :shrug:

 

[kuruma]

Can this discussion be kept civilized and not resort to name calling on either side. It's really not helping anyone prove their point. Instead of calling people idiots or such, why not refute their statement with your fact or belief.

 

[stangin99]

All I'm saying is that imo there would have been more damage to surrounding buildings outside that block.
WTC 7 fell straight down too whats your explanation for that? It didn't have the same building construction as the towers; and no major debri fell from the towers on it. The building fell from "fire" though its been said time and time again, that before this incident NO steel building has ever fallen from fire. To me thats suspicious.

It's going to stay the same way it is now, the people that believe the government is corrupt enough to do this and kill its own people for its gain. And the die hard followers that will believe anything the government says, or what they believe is truth. No one is going to change any ones mind until we find out the real truth. Which will never happen.

Show me another example of a skyscraper being hit by a jet liner and not falling. :rollseyes

Standard fires and jet fuel fires burn at completely different temperatures.

 

[Msyticgold]

all i ask for and as i keep saying, im like marlboroman. im neutral and would like answers just like everyone else out there.:shrug:

Its because you are specifically seeking aswers that don't exist. Here's an answer for ya: Several planes were hijacked by foreign terrorists that hate America and rammed them into buildings that were not designed to withstand such attacks. Anybody seeking further answers are just asking for a consiracy to exist. :bash:

 

[kuruma]

Show me another example of a skyscraper being hit by a jet liner and not falling. :rollseyes

Standard fires and jet fuel fires burn at completely different temperatures.

I understand that, and that's why I questioned WTC 7. Not 1 and 2. Standard fires burn at different tempratures right? Then why did 7 fall if it was not hit by a plane, and wtc 1 did not fall on top of it?

 

[stangin99]

I understand that, and that's why I questioned WTC 7. Not 1 and 2. Standard fires burn at different tempratures right? Then why did 7 fall if it was not hit by a plane, and wtc 1 did not fall on top of it?

That is a good question, and as far as anyone can tell (FEMA AND NIST), there was massive structural damage due to large debris from one of the towers that severly damaged main support columns of the building. This caused it to bow right before it finally collapsed....this combined with fire may have caused it.

However, NIST has not made an official release as to the cause of the fall yet(from what I've read)...however they have said that so far, they have not seen any signs of controlled demolition or explosions.
:shrug:

 

[Sklander]

I am with Marlboroman on this one. Remain neutral and ask questions.

You guys that believe the government are the ones who truly scare me. Why don't you poke your head outside the box and realize all the motives the government had for putting on an attack like this? Excuses to invade Iraq for reasons of "terror", a reason to enact the most invasive act that the United States has ever seen: The Patriot Act, and the billions of dollars that were there to be made by this taking place from insurance entities and put options.

I wouldn't believe everything I read, but I sure as hell wouldn't believe most of the stuff that the government tells me. They want this country to be run Orwellian style. Thats a fact.

I can't believe you people can't see the underlying motives that the government had. Not only does the questions that are unanswered not add up but the reasons for the government taking place in this attack DO add up.

Wake up.

And in that video of Poplular Mechanic vs. Loose Change, it looks to me like Popular Mechanic got their asses handed to them.

And don't you think the government has the capacity to TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO SAY. Like maybe... POPULAR MECHANIC, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE HISTORY CHANNEL. Don't you think these people will put on television whatever the governments wants them to put on? Wouldn't you if you got a government classified information and if your job depended on it?

Gather all the facts before you believe anything.

 

[stangin99]

I am with Marlboroman on this one. Remain neutral and ask questions.

You guys that believe the government are the ones who truly scare me. Why don't you poke your head outside the box and realize all the motives the government had for putting on an attack like this? Excuses to invade Iraq for reasons of "terror", a reason to enact the most invasive act that the United States has ever seen: The Patriot Act, and the billions of dollars that were there to be made by this taking place from insurance entities and put options.

I wouldn't believe everything I read, but I sure as hell wouldn't believe most of the stuff that the government tells me. They want this country to be run Orwellian style. Thats a fact.

I can't believe you people can't see the underlying motives that the government had. Not only does the questions that are unanswered not add up but the reasons for the government taking place in this attack DO add up.

Wake up.

And in that video of Poplular Mechanic vs. Loose Change, it looks to me like Popular Mechanic got their asses handed to them.

And don't you think the government has the capacity to TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO SAY. Like maybe... POPULAR MECHANIC, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE HISTORY CHANNEL. Don't you think these people will put on television whatever the governments wants them to put on? Wouldn't you if you got a government classified information and if your job depended on it?

Gather all the facts before you believe anything.

I am not disputing whether or not the government was behind this or not...that is an entirely different topic.

The topic as to whether someone set up a controlled demolition to bring the buildings down HAS facts presented, and yet people continue to ignore them to say the big bad government was able to keep ~10,000 people who work in the towers daily, in the dark as to them planting demolition explosives all throughout the tower.

:rollseyes :rollseyes

 

[kuruma]

And in that video of Poplular Mechanic vs. Loose Change, it looks to me like Popular Mechanic got their asses handed to them.

+1

Though the other guys seemed to get mad easily which put their credibility down for me a little bit. Proffesionalism goes a long way with me.

I do although believe that the explanetions the pop guys gave didnt answer anything, and like Bush, they direct attention to another subject rather than the question at hand.

 

[Sklander]

I am not disputing whether or not the government was behind this or not...that is an entirely different topic.

The topic as to whether someone set up a controlled demolition to bring the buildings down HAS facts presented, and yet people continue to ignore them to say the big bad government was able to keep ~10,000 people who work in the towers daily, in the dark as to them planting demolition explosives all throughout the tower.

:rollseyes :rollseyes

Security and bomb sniffing dogs were removed from the WTC Twin Towers and other WTC buildings two weeks prior to the attacks. Is that enough time to set up a controlled demolition?

Though the other guys seemed to get mad easily which put their credibility down for me a little bit. Proffesionalism goes a long way with me.

I do although believe that the explanetions the pop guys gave didnt answer anything, and like Bush, they direct attention to another subject rather than the question at hand.

I totally agree. Dylan Avery was very professional and had to tell the other guy to calm down once. I think the Loose Change guys got the Pop. Mechanic guys, but it would have been even better if that other LC guy didn't get so worked up. His intensity kind of showed how convincing some of the evidence is, though.

 

[bouncer18]

The govt isn't just one entity. You have way too many people within the govt w/ differing opinions just like on this board. It would be impossible to keep such a huge and dark secret like 911 wrapped up for too long within an institute where there is alot of differences in opinion. articularly when it does with killing tons of innocent people. Its like saying that we have a bunch of sadistic murderers that somehow were able to get hired by our govt despite securty screening measures who at the same time have had this lifelong desire to kill a bunch Americans so that they can change the way we live for just 8 years. :bored: It just doesnt ring for me. :shrug:

Indeed but what doesnt change as our legislature changes is our Military leaders. they can commit a crime and there is no one strong enough to try to prove there guilt..

 

[stangin99]

Security and bomb sniffing dogs were removed from the WTC Twin Towers and other WTC buildings two weeks prior to the attacks. Is that enough time to set up a controlled demolition?

It dosn't matter how much time there was. Do you understand how a controlled demolition even works?

You need precisely placed explosion on the main support beams throughout the building.

You need to cut/drill into those support beams to weaken the overall strength of them, so that when the charge is detonated it will successfully destroy that beam in the way they want.



Now, don't you think someone, out of the ~10,000 people who were in and out of the towers EVERYDAY would've noticed massive amount of wires, lots of cutting and drilling teams, as well as tons of "other" personnel moving about the hallways, stairwells, their office walls and ceilings?

Oh btw, remember the cutting of the support beams? Yea, the towers would barely be able to stand upright by themselves on a normal day. And you think they were set-up 2+ weeks ahead of time???

:lol1: :lol1:

 

[Msyticgold]

Indeed but what doesnt change as our legislature changes is our Military leaders. they can commit a crime and there is no one strong enough to try to prove there guilt..

Couldn't disagree more. I was in the military and whenever someone does something they're not supposed to it opens up a can of worms for all to see. The higher the rank the better and the more attention the story gets. No dirty secrets in the military except for classified ones for national securty and even those are leaked many times. You have too many people competing for rank slots so there's is always someone wanting to rat you out for whatever reason. Come on people this country has free press and stuff gets around no matter who tries to cover up. Look what happened to Bill Clinton. You think he didn't try everything in his power to cover his a$$?? And don't tell me it was simply Monica's word that gave him away.

 

[notfastenuf]

Now, don't you think someone, out of the ~10,000 people who were in and out of the towers EVERYDAY would've noticed massive amount of wires, lots of cutting and drilling teams, as well as tons of "other" personnel moving about the hallways, stairwells, their office walls and ceilings?

Oh btw, remember the cutting of the support beams? Yea, the towers would barely be able to stand upright by themselves on a normal day. And you think they were set-up 2+ weeks ahead of time???

:lol1: :lol1:

That's what I was saying in my first post on page 1. Logistically it seems impossible. And in reference to the Pentagon plane - I thought there were eye witness accounts flying along just over the ground knocking over light poles with it's wings?

 

[TH3N0TH1NG]

I think most of you conspiracy theorists just don't like dubya, period. If John Kerry had won the last election, would you all feel differently? Because the 9/11 tragedy would have occured regardless IMO. Don't forget, terrorist Bin Laden took credit and claimed victory the instant it occured. This man and his band of f**ktards have vowed to destroy America. They've been trying to level the towers since Feb of '93, when his crew attempted just that, and failed. He said he'd be back, and he didn't lie. I mean shit, when would you attack a giant? When it's sleeping or wide awake? I just think it's one hell of an accusation to say our own president planned such devastation, and ordered the death of thousands of his own people, and for what? I'm not great with words, and my post may even seem "elementary" to some. But it's what I believe, and I for one take great pride in my nation, and the free air I breathe.

Please note that I haven't once personally attacked or insulted anyone here, so please keep that in mind when and if you reply. I think we can all be civil about this.:beer:

 

[Msyticgold]

Yeah. And some very high ranking govt officer decided it would be a good idea to kill many of the same people he was sworn to protect and live the rest of his life with that on his consciousness just so he could get a nice bonus with his promototion. Conspiracy theorists=backwards evolution :smmon:

 

[05 Roush]

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? The reports I've read I BELIEVE have said there was a 5m/s wind blowing south on the towers...again, nothing to cause the towers to lean to one side significantly.

I was just adding to what you were stating. It would be interesting to calculate the total amount of force that would be exerted during a Cat 4 on the side of those two buildings. They were the first buildings to ever forego testing in wind tunnels.

NIST says that the "pancake theory" was not the reason for collapse, however it IS the basis behind their theory, as well as FEMA's. A more accurate name for this theory is the "progressive collapse" theory...The NIST concluded that the support columns had failed due to impact, and that the weakened floor trusses had begin to bow and pull the remaining support columns in. After enough time, the support columns failed and the several damaged floors collapsed, and the falling above section of the tower force the remaining floors below it to collapse. This still falls under the "pancake theory" in that the above floors cause the floors below to collapse.

FEMA came up with a similar explanation, however they said that the trusses themselves had failed and not the support columns....yet both support the idea that the immense energy from the floors above caused the entire collapse.

The only problem (and it's a big problem at that) is that they to this day don't have any model that has simulated the progressive collapse the are claiming. Therefore they can only hypothesize. It's still inconclusive until proven otherwise.

I don't know much about this, but both the floor trusses were fireproofed steel beams. In an impact such as a jet plane at full thrust impacting the towers, most likely removed a good portion of this fireproofing, as well as any concrete that may have been on the steel. This then leaves large portions of steel open to the 1000* C temperatures that were seen, and cause the steel to weaken and bend.

Normally I would agree. Unfortunately though, the NIST simulations showed temperatures reaching much lower levels (like 280C) than that, especially at the core of the buildings. If they could just get the models right perhaps we might see the true reason why the buildings fell. After all, if the special effects gurus who worked on the LOTR battle scenes simulating 250000 soldiers attacking each other with artificial intelligence, one would think simulating the damage, fire, and crash virtually for a building would be straightforward. Expensive, but rather rudimentary.

 

[05 Roush]

The govt isn't just one entity. You have way too many people within the govt w/ differing opinions just like on this board. It would be impossible to keep such a huge and dark secret like 911 wrapped up for too long within an institute where there is alot of differences in opinion. articularly when it does with killing tons of innocent people. Its like saying that we have a bunch of sadistic murderers that somehow were able to get hired by our govt despite securty screening measures who at the same time have had this lifelong desire to kill a bunch Americans so that they can change the way we live for just 8 years. :bored: It just doesnt ring for me. :shrug:

The official story is beginning to unravel as we speak. Even NIST is washing their hands and leaving the building. No one wants to be around when the political fallout begins.

And to answer your question about keeping a big secret, Here's how:

Pay professionals to do one thing and one thing well, people who never ask questions. Keep them in silos and pay them well. Don't keep a big secret. Keep lot's and lot's of little secrets.

If you really want to know who the real culprits are, follow the trail of money.

 

[NyteByte]

Pretty sweet vids of the Popular Mechanics guys attempting to educate the Loose Change morons. Be sure to see the sidebar on YouTube for the other 3 parts of the interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M

Good video. When I first started the video, I had my sound off, but even without the dialog I could tell who the Loose Change morons were just by looking at them.

In my opinion, it's not worth trying to "educate" these guys since it's an impossible task. If you think about the ridiculousness of what they believe, you'll realize that you will never get them to see reason or change their minds.

They believe what they want to believe.

 

[AK-Kayaker]

And in that video of Poplular Mechanic vs. Loose Change, it looks to me like Popular Mechanic got their asses handed to them.

+1

Though the other guys seemed to get mad easily which put their credibility down for me a little bit. Proffesionalism goes a long way with me.

I do although believe that the explanetions the pop guys gave didnt answer anything, and like Bush, they direct attention to another subject rather than the question at hand.

Wow It makes me wonder, if you guys watched the same video clips I did.
The P.M. guys answered the questions, quite clearly, all the other guys did was get mad, and start calling people liars.