Matrix Subframe Connectors

[LargeOrangeFont]

Generally a good muffler shop with a drive on lift can do your subframes. I infered (possibly incorrectly) from your post that you would have a roll bar in the car sooner rather than later for track days.

There is a thread somewhere on this site of pictures of a car with an MM bolt in 4 point roll bar that has the lower plates (the ones that go under the car) tied into the subframe connectors for a little extra strength and rigidity. Seems like a good idea.

Honestly, take another look at a through the floor solution if you don't plan on having many rear passengers and are thinking about having something fabbed. The thread I referenced 2 posts up has very good pictures of cars with full interiors and the through the floor subframe connectors installed. They look very clean, and it will REALLY help a vert.

 

[Crackerballer]

I am planning on doing a roll bar sooner than later, but I think of that as a little different than a cage (4 point versus 8 point?) that is just me though.

I will definitely be looking into the through the floor system IF I can find someone in my area to do it well. And I plan on converting the car to a 2 seater anyway by removing the back seat and belts.

The reason I was considering the matrix system is because I could afford to do it now, with a through the floor system that is going to be a substantial investment.

I just don't want to buy something and it be inadequate. If the matrix braces will do almost as good of a job as a through the floor then I am reasonably sure I can find someone to install them. However if I find someone local that can fab everything well, the point is moot because it seems like a through the floor system won't cost much more.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

No I dont think it will cost you much more at all. If you pull the console and carpet yourself, that will help with the labor costs.

Save up the cash and install your rollbar at the same time. Since the interior will already be out, it will be very easy. Not sure if you were thinking of doing a custom weld in 4 point, or just a bolt in 4 point, but either way, that is the time to do it.

 

[Crackerballer]

Which console, the dash or the center console? I had thought about pulling the rear seats and then taking the front ones out to cut the carpet under the seats just to save weight. It's hard for me to get too crazy right now because I don't have a daily driver.

After the wedding and finishing my masters, both in May, I will be working full time making some real money, so a nice DD will be in the books. From there, the Cobra becomes a huge toy, and I will be going crazy.

LOF, I have started doing the research on Mustang and Chassis shops in the area to see what people know about the through the floor systems. I want it done well, not going to accept someone hacking up my toy to try to make a few dollars.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Which console, the dash or the center console? I had thought about pulling the rear seats and then taking the front ones out to cut the carpet under the seats just to save weight. It's hard for me to get too crazy right now because I don't have a daily driver.

After the wedding and finishing my masters, both in May, I will be working full time making some real money, so a nice DD will be in the books. From there, the Cobra becomes a huge toy, and I will be going crazy.

LOF, I have started doing the research on Mustang and Chassis shops in the area to see what people know about the through the floor systems. I want it done well, not going to accept someone hacking up my toy to try to make a few dollars.

Just the center console. You can get the carpet out with the dash still in the car. It really is not that hard of a job to install them, but a shop that has experience is a good bet.

I would imagine there are a few decent shops in your area.. even if you had to you could drive to Nascar country to find one.

Getting rid of the power driver's seat track will save a bunch of wieght, around 30 lbs. You can swap the seat base itself to a manual one from a Fox body car. I dropped almost 40 lbs by going to a Sparco drivers seat. The passenger seat is fairly light though. It was not much heavier than the Sparco, so I left it in place.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I stayed out of this thread because I wanted to see how it went on it's own.

So far I'm VERY pleased to see a Vert owner and potential open track enthusiast recognize the obvious value and advantage that a through floor FLSFC brings to the table.

Had I known how bad 03/04 Cobra prices were going to tank, I would have done them instead of my Global West units.

They simply are the best solution for the purpose they are intended, and also have the best strength to weight ratio.

 

[RDJ]

you need to get FULL LENGTH. don't need the through the floor necessarily. The matrix is in ADDITION to the FL not instead of.

and there is now way in hell I would let a muffler shop do anything other than exhaust on my car. No way no how would I let them do subframes ..but that is just me

Guys, no need to start a pissing match over SFCs. I have done the reading and research, and I know I want a matrix setup. Not full lengths, not through the floor, and certainly not a cage (right now).

With that being said, I am not sure as to the availability of a good fabricator in my area. So from what I am reading from everyone above, all are very good products. Sounds like the Hans are slightly better than the KB, but overall a set can be fabricated to be EVEN better and even lighter.

I will do some research on fabricators in the area and then decide. I appreciate the feedback and welcome more. Also, thanks SlowSVT, good to know they need to be welded wheels on the ground. I guess someone would do this in a "pit" still bay that allows you to walk under the car with it on the ground? Time to start calling around to see who can make, or at least install, a set of matrix subframe connects for me.

More thoughts?

 

[jrgoffin]

The MM FLSFC's are monsters and will make a major difference. As just stated, get a shop that knows what they are doing!

If you have to have a matrix-type connector, here is another option:

Stifflers Automotive and Suspension Products - Search

 

[Crackerballer]

I think the important part of this thread is to realize I don't HAVE to have anything. Honestly, the way S2000 prices are dropping (ask me how I know), finding a nice, high mileage AP1 would set me back around $8,000 and I could easily turn it into a track whore.

With that being said, I will just echo that if I can find someone to do a FULL LENGTH through the floor system without costing me an arm and a leg or setting my car on fire while they weld, that is what I will do. The matrix was the original consideration because of them being a little bit easier to install and a little less intrusive.

And again, I know the weight thing is a huge issue, so staying lighter with a through the floor system is appealing to me as well.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Don't forget to check out this subforum.
Open Track Racing - SVTPerformance

There are some very knowledgeable and fast guys in there.
Not all Terminators though, in fact not all Fords either.

 

[Crackerballer]

Guys, spoke with my local performance shop today and we discussed through the floor versus a matrix setup. They brought up a very good point: resale value. I don't plan on getting rid of the Terminator any time soon, but when I start working full time in June and the money starts coming in, who knows how that itch will be scratched.

So I am back to square one, definitely going with a nice matrix setup, just have to decide which one!

 

[Ryushin]

I ordered the Han's Racecraft subframe connectors for myself. They looked very nice. Though they were very heavy. I never weighed them, but I would say at least 60-70 pounds for the pair.

I took them to an expert welding shop (Hanksville Hot Rods) that also builds custom exhaust, roll cages, etcetera. His work is absolutely meticulous. He has welded in Kenny brown, Maximum Motorsports, and Steeda subframes for other customers. He had never done a Han's Racecraft though. After he got my car up in the air, and placed the Han's in before welding them, he found that they didn't line up correctly and aborted the install. After seeing the pictures of how the frames would be off, I ended up sending them back to Han's.

This was about a month ago. After talking with Hank some more, we decided the best bet is to custom weld a set of subframes based somewhat off the Han's and Kenney Brown connectors. I'm paying the extra money to use chromoly tubing since it is 60% lighter then normal steel. He said he was going to take he measurements and such so he could replicate kits for those that also want to have this installed. The kits would just be in the separate tubes that have to be welded together to the car.

I'm taking the car in today to have it done. He said it will take 2-3 days to complete the work. I'll take pictures of the subframes in case anyone else is interested.

 

[Crackerballer]

Please do, and PM me his price on the kit to have it shipped to me, 27713. I would like tons of pics and a total weight of all the tubing he uses.

 

[SlowSVT]

I ordered the Han's Racecraft subframe connectors for myself. They looked very nice. Though they were very heavy. I never weighed them, but I would say at least 60-70 pounds for the pair.

I took them to an expert welding shop (Hanksville Hot Rods) that also builds custom exhaust, roll cages, etcetera. His work is absolutely meticulous. He has welded in Kenny brown, Maximum Motorsports, and Steeda subframes for other customers. He had never done a Han's Racecraft though. After he got my car up in the air, and placed the Han's in before welding them, he found that they didn't line up correctly and aborted the install. After seeing the pictures of how the frames would be off, I ended up sending them back to Han's.

This was about a month ago. After talking with Hank some more, we decided the best bet is to custom weld a set of subframes based somewhat off the Han's and Kenney Brown connectors. I'm paying the extra money to use chromoly tubing since it is 60% lighter then normal steel. He said he was going to take he measurements and such so he could replicate kits for those that also want to have this installed. The kits would just be in the separate tubes that have to be welded together to the car.

I'm taking the car in today to have it done. He said it will take 2-3 days to complete the work. I'll take pictures of the subframes in case anyone else is interested.

Good move :thumbsup:

There were some minor alignment issues with the Han's but nothing major. They should have made them using chromoly tubing though. Weld the entire length along the rocker panels but do it in stages and cool the weld often with a wet towel to keep the heat from propagating into the metal. I integrated the subframes into the chassis very extensively using 4130 sheet.

Remove the seats and carpet before welding for best results.

 

[Ryushin]

I have preliminary pictures back. The install looks like it will take through Friday to complete. I like how he's making the subframes fallow the contour of the car. You can see the pictures he sent me here:
Index of /cobra/subframes

This is the quote from his e-mail:
Here are some pictures of the main SFC tubes. The main tube features 3 bends which allow it to fit very nicely under the body and hug the subframe. The pictures show the passenger side, but the driver side fits the same and is a mirror-image. There will be tabs that will further spread the load between the subframes and tubes. Also, we will angle-cut and cap the fronts of the main tubes.

We have temporarily tack-welded both main rails to the subframes, and are now working on the outer rails that connect to the floor next to the pinchwelds.

I'm happy with the progress that we are making, but I think that the project will go into Friday if that would be ok with your schedule. I'll give you another update tomorrow afternoon to show you how the outer rails and crossbraces look. I'll also have a better understanding of how Friday looks at that time.

 

[Crackerballer]

Looks good. Any idea on the total weight of the chrome moly he is using? Also, what is he charging you for labor?

I emailed my shop, and they said they could absolutely do them in chrome moly, but they didn't think the extra labor cost would justify the weight savings. I think that is TBD honestly.

 

[Ryushin]

Well, the cost is much higher then normal subframes. The Han's Racecraft connectors were $500. Labor was going to be about $350. So about $850 total. These are going to cost me about $1200 total. It was a bit hard to justify the cost in my mind, but if you want something done right, it costs money. I don't plan on ever selling this car and I want everything done as perfect as possible. If I'll spend $1200 for high end retrofited HID lights, I guess I can spend the same on something that is this crucial to the car's handling. I'm guessing he'll sell the kit for somewhere around $500. I don't know for sure.

 

[Crackerballer]

Any idea on weight? I heard the Hans kit is 60+ pounds.

 

[Ryushin]

No idea at this point. Hank has not given me that yet. But I have to think it would be about 60% less then the Han's due to the chromoly.

 

[Crackerballer]

hmm, so 36 pounds versus 60, so a savings of 24 pounds... Not too shabby. Thanks for the update, looking forward to more pics and details.