Low numbers after cam install

[NateDogg]

More bad news from the shop today.

Car is still dropping boost after the cams have been re-degreed. The car actually ran better when they were put in straight up. They have double and tripled checked everything.

He is asking me to order a new set of cams and he is convinced that there maybe issues with the quality of the cams (lunati cut them).

I'm really not sure what to do at this point.

Cams have been degreed to spec. All lines/hoses/gaskets have been checked for leaks. Boost actuator has been replaced. Belt slip has been eliminated. Compression check is good.

The only thing that hasn't been checked is if the cams measure out to what the cam card states. What else could possibly cause a boost drop off at 4k rpm.

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

did they verify the base circle on the cam is right as part of the degree process? I cant see ordering another set of cams

They're sure it's not leaking air around the blower to mid plate/intercooler once boost gets high enough?

 

[ViperRed91GT]

He should’ve been able to verify the cam card when he degreed the cams. Have you reached out to the place your bought your cam from?

 

[NateDogg]

did they verify the base circle on the cam is right as part of the degree process? I cant see ordering another set of cams

They're sure it's not leaking air around the blower to mid plate/intercooler once boost gets high enough?

I'm not sure about verifying base circle. I'll have to ask. They have had the car apart two separate times double and triple checking everything. So I know they have inspected the blower to intake gasket, but I doubt they have pulled the intercooler to check. I did put a J2fab unit on it. I wonder if it didn't seal all the way with the RTV...or maybe the Orings.

They have installed tons cams in cobras, I would like to believe they know what to check when installing cams.

He should’ve been able to verify the cam card when he degreed the cams. Have you reached out to the place your bought your cam from?

I purchased the cams from Todd Warren. He used Lunati Cams to grind them. When I reached out to him the first time this issue surfaced he said the only way we would experience a boost drop off like that is if the the intake cams were extremely retarded. Cams were not degreed the first time, just put in straight up. The cams since have been degreed to the cam card specs.

I normally would think that is can't be the cams. BUT, when I ordered them from Todd it took over a year to get them (COVID supply shortage bullshit). So I initially received 3 cams, and then received the last one months later. I can see where it is possible that there was some kind of mix up.

The shop has hours of work into the car and now I'm afraid of what the final bill is going to be with the added expense of another set of cams. But if I take the car back as is, and have another shop or myself diagnose the issue and it ends up being the cams I'll be out even more money.

I really don't know what to do. I shouldn't have done cams lol.

 

[03cobra#2]

One possibility is going back to stock cams. Once the TW cams are off the car send them out to get verified.

If you have the space and time you may just want to take the car back and dig into it yourself. You can pull the cams with the engine in the car and send them out to get verified.

 

[2003RedfireVert]

One possibility is going back to stock cams. Once the TW cams are off the car send them out to get verified.

If you have the space and time you may just want to take the car back and dig into it yourself. You can pull the cams with the engine in the car and send them out to get verified.

My thoughts exactly. Go back to stock cams and sort of out that way.

 

[biminiLX]

First I’m sorry to hear this Nate.
When talking Modular cams John Mihovetz mentioned several times the need to check cams for being straight (not out of round).
That said I’m not sure it’s the cams either due to the boost, which makes me suspect the blower.
Any chance you have another blower to swap on and check?
I have a set of new take off ‘13-14 GT500 cams (same as Ford GT Supercar). If you end up swapping cams and those would help I’d send them to you for whatever you feel is fair.
Good luck.
-J

 

[03cobra#2]

Another thought is simply disconnecting the blower and driving the car around, even doing a pull on the dyno to see if everything is good. You won't make much power but you can check the power / torque curves.

 

[NateDogg]

I appreciate the input fellas. I'm going to shop and discuss some options. Obviously, I would like to get the car back fully functional and with the cams that I had purchased. I just know they are very backed up with limited staff so I don't want to have to wait even longer than I already have because it has been a head ache for them.

I also know that if I take the car back and diagnosis it by myself it will sit even longer because I don't have the time to wrench on it with work and kids sports.

I'll report back once I figure out what route I go.

 

[Shadow Grey 03]

I appreciate the input fellas. I'm going to shop and discuss some options. Obviously, I would like to get the car back fully functional and with the cams that I had purchased. I just know they are very backed up with limited staff so I don't want to have to wait even longer than I already have because it has been a head ache for them.

I also know that if I take the car back and diagnosis it by myself it will sit even longer because I don't have the time to wrench on it with work and kids sports.

I'll report back once I figure out what route I go.

Anyone else local to you that works on these motors? Not saying it's them, but that's the only variable that hasn't been changed....
It's been mentioned before, but I want to add a little to it. The cores could have been bad. The cards asked for something, that doesn't mean that they were ground to those specs. Accidents happen and with 4Vs I'd say cam timing is "a little" important. Just SUUUUCKKS that you have had to deal with this. I know Todd is always back logged too. The guy has done good things for 4V cams and has a nice following of loyal and happy customers.
Sadly, you will have to pull them to have them looked at. Maybe someone has a set of custom Warren cams that they haven't used and want to sell?

 

[NateDogg]

Figure I'd update this.

A couple weeks ago I decided to just go ahead and have them pull the TW cams and install Comp Stage 3 cams. I did this for a number of reasons, but the main reason is I just want the car back.

I also had every injector O ring and IC manifold O rings replaced. All gaskets are new, but have been re inspected as they are putting it back together.

The car should be back together in the next day or so then tuning will commence. Really hoping to put an end to this and be able to enjoy the car again.

Once everything checks out I'll be sending the TW cams over to Lunati to have them checked and polished. I'm sure they are fine, but I just want to confirm. I have an Aluminator short block and a spare set of heads on the side that I've been waiting to put together for some time. I'll put the TW cams in the motor. I'll probably look for another terminator or possibly a swap candidate.

If the car still has the same issue after this go around, I'll take it back and try to fix it myself. I should hear back with the results early next week.

 

[03cobra#2]

Figure I'd update this.

A couple weeks ago I decided to just go ahead and have them pull the TW cams and install Comp Stage 3 cams. I did this for a number of reasons, but the main reason is I just want the car back.

I also had every injector O ring and IC manifold O rings replaced. All gaskets are new, but have been re inspected as they are putting it back together.

The car should be back together in the next day or so then tuning will commence. Really hoping to put an end to this and be able to enjoy the car again.

Once everything checks out I'll be sending the TW cams over to Lunati to have them checked and polished. I'm sure they are fine, but I just want to confirm. I have an Aluminator short block and a spare set of heads on the side that I've been waiting to put together for some time. I'll put the TW cams in the motor. I'll probably look for another terminator or possibly a swap candidate.

If the car still has the same issue after this go around, I'll take it back and try to fix it myself. I should hear back with the results early next week.

I'm running Comp XE-R stage 3's and they are great.

How are you having them degreed?

 

[NateDogg]

Degreed per the cam card.

 

[IllCobra]

Man, that's rough. I was really hoping all would be good.
You receiving the 4th cam a month later sounds like the issue could be there. That would be a very easy mistake to make for a shop that is backed up with orders.

 

[FleeMan]

Any updates?

 

[NateDogg]

After cam swap the car is still dropping boost.

Figured it would. I’m not sure what I’m going to do. This is absolutely frustrating.


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[MG0h3]

And it has the same blower as before?

Could you have cracked the intake or something?


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[LS WUT]

I’m sorry man, that’s horrible.

 

[IllCobra]

Oh, man. Do you have the stock blower laying around?

 

[NateDogg]

It’s a new blower from the last time I actually had it tuned/on the road.

It makes boost initially. But dropped significantly around 4k rpms. I think if the intake was cracked it would have a hard time making it at all.

Every gasket has been changed. Vac lines checked and sprayed. Boost actuator is operating correctly. No signs of leaks.

What about valve springs?? Is there any scenario they could be the culprit? They are literally the only thing that hasn’t been changed between the two sets of cams.


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