looking into meth need help!

[younggun04]

I have looked into meth injection on 03-04 cobra I here is basically pointless before the blower, for raising gas octane. but good in the fact it keeps the blower IAT's down only way to utilize the add octane rating given from meth is to have it injected after the blower in the lower intake or as a direct port style. I'm not an expert just some of the research has lead me to believe this being true other then my tuner telling the same thing.

And this is why you take information from SVTP with a grain of salt. You are 100% wrong about the no octane gain from meth pre-blower. Also the IAT temps drops are not great if you spray pre-blower. The only reason to do Meth on these cars if you plan on doing it pre-blower is the octane boost. You will not see dramatic IAT drops at all, you will see a little but not big enough to warrant buying a kit just for that reason. My buddy just did a meth kit on his 2.9 whipple car for the exact reason as the OP. It works great for running more boost on pump gas.

 

[younggun04]

A 50/50 mix will bring IATs down more on a PD blower car sprayed pre blower than straight meth.

The person who posted above that you don't get an octane boost by spraying pre blower that is absolutely wrong. You will receive the same octane boost spraying pre blower.

While it's true spraying pre blower will not get you as cool IATs as if you sprayed post blower because of the intercooler it's not true that there's no cooling. You will still see IATs around 130 which is very nice. Much better than 180+.

OP if your tuner says they don't work very good he's not educated on the subject and clearly has no first hand experience.

Wow you have seen a 130 Temps with meth? What blower setup? My buddies 2.9 whipple car doesn't even come close to intake drops like that with meth.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Wow you have seen a 130 Temps with meth? What blower setup? My buddies 2.9 whipple car doesn't even come close to intake drops like that with meth.

What temps is he seeing? intercooler is going to be the limiting factor here. Increase it's capacity, larger heat exchanger in the bumper with more capacity, larger reservoir. Get the temps of the intercooler down and the effects of the meth will be seen a lot better. Is your buddy spraying straight meth? a 50/50 mix will cool better than straight meth.

 

[younggun04]

What temps is he seeing? intercooler is going to be the limiting factor here. Increase it's capacity, larger heat exchanger in the bumper with more capacity, larger reservoir. Get the temps of the intercooler down and the effects of the meth will be seen a lot better. Is your buddy spraying straight meth? a 50/50 mix will cool better than straight meth.

straight meth, aftermarket heat exchanger and IC tank. I will have to ask what he is seeing for exact temps. He was saying when he tried to car with and without meth on the dyno. His temps where within if I remember correctly +/-10c.

 

[MalcolmV8]

All aftermarket reservoirs I see are aluminum which means the engine bay heat and radiator will just heat soak the coolant in there. I don't have the perfect solution yet, still playing with options but my idea is to add an additional plastic reservoir into the front passenger's side bumper and plumb it inline with the stock plastic reservoir to increase capacity and keep heat from soaking in.

 

[Co-brat]

By spraying straight meth all you are actually doing is boosting the octane rating , it does not have any cooling properties, the water is what gives the cooling effect. The meth is simply the combustable agent In The mix. 50/50 is the most effective mix period.

 

[MalcolmV8]

By spraying straight meth all you are actually doing is boosting the octane rating , it does not have any cooling properties, the water is what gives the cooling effect. The meth is simply the combustable agent In The mix. 50/50 is the most effective mix period.

The various meth companies I've spoken to say this is not true. Meth does indeed have cooling properties just not as much as water. Apparently a lot of centrifugal supercharger guys and turbo guys get enough cooling by just spraying meth. A PD blower car like most of ours will benefit best from a 50/50 mix because that will cool better than just straight meth.

 

[raym5_0]

deleted my post, off topic:bash:

 

[04svtsnke]

I dOnt understand why anyone would want to use meh as a cooling agent with our setups. Although straight meth and a 50/50 mix has cooling properties, the intercooler(underthe blower) will basically heat back up any of the air that has been cooled by the meth if it's cooler than the fluid running through the intercooler(system) a the time of wot. Our best bet for optimum results is to run 100% meth for octane and run a killer chiller for the best iat2 reduction possible.

/thread

 

[101blur]

And this is why you take information from SVTP with a grain of salt. You are 100% wrong about the no octane gain from meth pre-blower. Also the IAT temps drops are not great if you spray pre-blower. The only reason to do Meth on these cars if you plan on doing it pre-blower is the octane boost. You will not see dramatic IAT drops at all, you will see a little but not big enough to warrant buying a kit just for that reason. My buddy just did a meth kit on his 2.9 whipple car for the exact reason as the OP. It works great for running more boost on pump gas.

Im happy I'm wrong, I'm just stating what I have heard and come across when i started looking into Meth injection myself. Im very interested to try a kit out. do you have any pictures of your setup..?

 

[itSSlow98]

By spraying straight meth all you are actually doing is boosting the octane rating , it does not have any cooling properties, the water is what gives the cooling effect. The meth is simply the combustable agent In The mix. 50/50 is the most effective mix period.

Man you are so ridiculously wrong its not even funny. I spray 100% meth pre tb on my turbo setup and I get iat's 2s of almost ambient. Between the intercooler and meth I see 60 degree drops between iat 1-2. I can literally grab the intake pipe after the meth nozzles and it's cold even after a 2 hr drive. Before the nozzles I can't touch it for more then 2 seconds.

50/50 fits certain applications. You can't say that it works best for every setup.

 

[younggun04]

Man you are so ridiculously wrong its not even funny. I spray 100% meth pre tb on my turbo setup and I get iat's 2s of almost ambient. Between the intercooler and meth I see 60 degree drops between iat 1-2. I can literally grab the intake pipe after the meth nozzles and it's cold even after a 2 hr drive. Before the nozzles I can't touch it for more then 2 seconds.

50/50 fits certain applications. You can't say that it works best for every setup.

I think he was referring to people that still have the Eaton or twin screw on their cars.. IMO when i comes to a turbo setup, Meth is a MUST.

 

[younggun04]

Im happy I'm wrong, I'm just stating what I have heard and come across when i started looking into Meth injection myself. Im very interested to try a kit out. do you have any pictures of your setup..?

My meth kit is sitting in my trunk. I will be installing it after I am finished doing the rest of my turbo kit and of course there will be pics! :beer:

 

[101blur]

My meth kit is sitting in my trunk. I will be installing it after I am finished doing the rest of my turbo kit and of course there will be pics! :beer:

awesome sounds good. But I would like to see the setups on PD blower style setups mainly since this is what I have. I wounder has anyone plumed a line directly into the back of there blower spraying directly onto the rotors..?

 

[MalcolmV8]

I wounder has anyone plumed a line directly into the back of there blower spraying directly onto the rotors..?

I considered this recently when I had to tear my blower down again and install the replacement whipple crusher but considering the amount of work to get to it on the whipple setup and the whole tear down and disassemble involved I said no way in case I have issues and have to get to stuff or change things around. So I stuck with the intake tube before the throttle body.

 

[Co-brat]

Man you are so ridiculously wrong its not even funny. I spray 100% meth pre tb on my turbo setup and I get iat's 2s of almost ambient. Between the intercooler and meth I see 60 degree drops between iat 1-2. I can literally grab the intake pipe after the meth nozzles and it's cold even after a 2 hr drive. Before the nozzles I can't touch it for more then 2 seconds.

50/50 fits certain applications. You can't say that it works best for every setup.

Yeah ok man you arent even in the same ballpark here. You are spraying post compressor/pre throttlebody on a TURBO setup, of couse you are going to have drastically different results. You arent compressing the charge and heating it up at all vs. spraying into the blower. Yes it may have SOME cooling properties when used straight in your situation but not nearly as much when mixed with water. The evaporation of the water is what absorbs the heat and thus adds the cooling effect. LOOK IT UP.

 

[itSSlow98]

Yeah ok man you arent even in the same ballpark here. You are spraying post compressor/pre throttlebody on a TURBO setup, of couse you are going to have drastically different results. You arent compressing the charge and heating it up at all vs. spraying into the blower. Yes it may have SOME cooling properties when used straight in your situation but not nearly as much when mixed with water. The evaporation of the water is what absorbs the heat and thus adds the cooling effect. LOOK IT UP.

Then why did AIS suggest i put a nozzle directly before the inlet compressor of the turbo as a 3rd nozzle? They said i could expect 15-20 degree drops just by adding that single nozzle. Isnt that basically the exact same as spraying through a blower? Putting a nozzle before the turbo or procharger is getting VERY popular. I opted not to because i have a very efficient intercooler and two nozzles before the TB.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Putting a nozzle before the turbo or procharger is getting VERY popular. I opted not to because i have a very efficient intercooler and two nozzles before the TB.

Since when is that getting popular? Everything I read says spraying anything through a turbo ruins the air flow characteristics of the turbo. It's apparently very undesirable. I've never sprayed anything through my turbo so no first hand experience but it's online and my EFI tuning manual from Don Lasota (respected tuner in the industry) says the same thing.

 

[itSSlow98]

Since when is that getting popular? Everything I read says spraying anything through a turbo ruins the air flow characteristics of the turbo. It's apparently very undesirable. I've never sprayed anything through my turbo so no first hand experience but it's online and my EFI tuning manual from Don Lasota (respected tuner in the industry) says the same thing.

AIS paraised how great it was, and I know of a few 1,000+hp procharger and turbo cars built by a very good shop running pre compressor nozzles.

 

[101blur]

So on another note. After searching and looking all over the Internet and old post even here on svtperformance. Looks like the most common setup for PD based surcharged mustang that are intercooled Such as 03-04 cobras, is to run dual nozzles one before the TB and one directly into the rear of the blower spraying on the rotors. And running a 50/50 mix as not to corrode the blower blades. Also not running the car for the added octane but simply based off the lowered IAT's.
Now I'm sure there are many fokes say I'm wrong on here but after search for a couple days speaking to my tuner and seeing what some larger performance vendors on here have had to say I find this to be the safest and best route on a PD supercharged based mustang.
I think this will be my setup once I have available funds for a retune and getting some long tubes, and hope for the best..:beer: