Well I for one am happy my 13 GT500 will come with launch and traction control. I'm so use to AWD I'm gonna need some help getting use to limited traction again.
LOL.....ZL1 owners facing traction issues
- Thread starter GarageLogic
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Maybe that's why it's called "traction control", not "traction creation"? If you want to argue just because ON D BIT accidently used the wrong word then there isn't much point in the discussion.
At any rate, I'm pretty sure that limiting torque will control traction. As for the quote, I'd like to see the source of that as well.
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I have posted that a couple times on SVTP. This was coming from Jamal Hameede when I spoke to him in person about the GT500. Evan Smith was the driver.
Trust me, getting a car down the track takes suspension and power management. My car never went as quick as it did once I started 'limiting' the power I was throwing at the tire and track. Once I started bringing in boost in slower the car went quicker. And what I am doing on my prehistoric car is nothing like what these newer traction control systems can do.
Traction control is not about changing the coefficient of friction and so on. It is about letting the car do the most with the traction that is available to it. HUGE difference.
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Thanks for posting! I remember reading that a few years ago (hell, it may have been 5).
Not sure who you are asking, but every high horsepower car I have driven in the last 10+ years has had it, they were all terrible.
I routinely got sub 2.0 60 fts in my '03 Cobra without traction control, and on a decent tracks was usually in the 1.8s with a best of 1.839.
For the bast 5 years I've been driving a friend of mine's C6 Z06 at the track, and only tried traction control once, as it was so bad.
I guess there is some chance the 13 GT500 will be as good a good driver, but I'll just say I'm skeptical.
I do like the feature to set a launch RPM before hand, i just hope you can do that with the traction control off if you want to. That would be helpful as hitting the exact RPM you want while staging before the lights come down can be an issue.
I was really asking rdsnk46 after his comment. But anyone feel free to post their experiences.
The traction control you are talking about are not the type of traction I am talking about. The stock stuff in the vette, camaro and mustang PRE-2013 are not the same as what the ZL1, 2013 GT500 and after market racing systems are offering. Not even in the same league.
If you look at some of the after market drag racing systems that are available you would see they are way different that the traction control on a New Edge Mustang. These are used by teams running radial into the 6s in the 1/4. VERY high tech using a lot of sensor feedback. The traction control on the ZL1 and 2013 GT500 are closer to these systems than the ones you are talking about.
To see what I am talking about check out the Davis Traction Control. Here is a video explaining all about it. I do not expect the GT500 or ZL1 work as well as this system. But it compares better to this than the traction control systems that have been available in production cars for years.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TractionMaster09?ob=0&feature=results_main
This video show a red light when the traction control is activated. You are telling me a driver could control the throttle faster than that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tMAjzI-0FM
This one has a lot more detail about they system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqeo48caBxs
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[1] this is what i disagree with...
"I think "traction control" will prove to be a big disappointment for both the ZL1 and the GT500."
[2] i never once said that traction control "enhances" traction, don't put words in my mouth. traction control controls traction. it attempts to maintain traction either through either torque limiting, individual wheel braking, differential control(if so equipped to do so), or any combination of those. with a high resolution system with significant amounts of tuning, it is actually possible for a traction control system to out perform a human being. will this current generation of muscle cars possess such a system? unlikely i think, though i do believe that it will take a very skilled driver to out perform it(both from what we've heard about the development of these systems, as well as what 86merc posted based on his talk with hameedi).
86merc beat me to it, but all you gotta do is look at the systems available for the xtreme 10.5/outlaw 10.5 classes and the like, as well as ALMS/LMS and other high end GT/sportscar racing series.
no prob, the last time you saw it was probably in another one of my posts:lol1: i know i've posted it at least two other times here, years ago.
The "Launch Control" in the 2013 GT500 works completely different than "Traction Control" (which it also has in addition to LC) Simply put LC limits the engine's amount of power and torque in relation to either spikes in RPM and or wheel spin. With ECT it will actually close the throttle as well as other function's to control power application.
The traction control you had in your Cobra will apply the brakes to try to control individual wheel spin as well as retard spark and enrich fuel mixture.....this is counterproductive to what one is trying to achieve in drag racing.
Don't be confused by the term 'traction control' as the term is used by lots of different company's but for different applications and purposes.. For example the "Davis Traction Control" works much in the same way (but it has more capability) as Ford'd Launch control does in the 13' by limiting engine power output and has nothing to do with applying brakes.
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Since the title of this tread is "LOL.....ZL1 owners facing traction issues", I think the question has been answered already in terms of the ZL1, it is a big disappointment.
Based on the expectations in this tread, I think the GT500 will be too.
No question a computer can be made to outdrive a human being, whether they put that technology in a 2013 GT500, I'll believe it when I see it.
I think you are too hung up on semantics. The fact is, No matter how sophisticated the system, it is just limiting torque to the tire. That is it, actual traction is not enhanced in any way.
Traction control isn't supposed to create extra traction it's supposed to help control the traction that the car has already.
I think the main issue is everyone over there bought into the bull of the car being easy to drive and thrash around when that just isnt the case....this isnt a Nissan GTR, were talking about a muscle car, a camaro ZL1 with a supercharger at 4200 lbs...the GT500 isnt going to be easy to drive but at least we never claimed it would be
these new age traction control systems help but they only do so much on these kinds of cars and I personally prefer a car that gives feedback and lets me know when im pushing too hard....when the camaro owners come to realize this life will be better
these new age traction control systems help but they only do so much on these kinds of cars and I personally prefer a car that gives feedback and lets me know when im pushing too hard....when the camaro owners come to realize this life will be better
Why would anyone care about the ZL1? It's just another overweight Camaro.
Exactly, that is what I've been saying, it isn't some magic device that will let a 650 HP car dead hook at full power.
I do not know how the ZL1 system works. I have a pretty good idea how the GT500 works. Ford & SVT has already gave some info on the system. It is there. But it is not an 'end all, be all' system. It will only be able to do so much. But with it on and the car driven correctly the system works very well. I think people will see what quickly once the magazines are able to print their findings.
Many racing classes outlaw traction devices. Why do you think this is?
Exactly. The surface of the tire and road/track are some thing the car has no control over. It does not even have a way to measure their temps, road surface finish and other variables it could use to be a better system to control the power to help hook. It could be better for sure. But at what cost? And is the technology even available? I do not know to be honest. Even if it had a way to measure all that there is still no way for the car to change the tire or road surface. Again, that I am aware of at least.
But you are totally missing the point. At a drag strip do you adjust the launch rpm to get the car to hook to it's best ability but not too as to cause the tires to spin? Would you continue to launch your car at 6,500 rpm if it doesn't hook? You should reduce the rpm until you get the best 60' & 330' times. Changing the launch RPM for different cases IS power management. Power management is an important part of making the car work with the traction that is available to the car. Electronics and braking are not the only ways of doing it either. Top fuel cars use clutch slip to help them. This is nothing new and any successful racer or crew chief could tell you that.
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uhh, the comments in the OP were from someone driving a ZL1 in 40 degree temperatures
oke: any car with a solid amount of power will have traction issues in those conditions, especially any car equipped with these tires...how about we wait until we see these cars run in realistic temperatures before we make any wide sweeping proclamations.
i think GMs marketing of the ZL1 has been a joke(namely pretty much every word that's came out of al O's mouth), i think GM probably has the worst QC of the big 3 right now, and i think GM were absolutely caught with their pants down with only a pretty good product vs the competition, but i also think that GM has built one hell of a car in every single way and has the know how to implement a quality traction control system. hell, they already laid most of the ground work years ago with the ZR1.
uhh, the comments in the OP were from someone driving a ZL1 in 40 degree temperatures
how about we wait until we see these cars run in realistic temperatures before we make any wide sweeping proclamations.
i think GMs marketing of the ZL1 has been a joke(namely pretty much every word that's came out of al O's mouth), i think GM probably has the worst QC of the big 3 right now, and i think GM were absolutely caught with their pants down with only a pretty good product vs the competition, but i also think that GM has built one hell of a car in every single way and has the know how to implement a quality traction control system. hell, they already laid most of the ground work years ago with the ZR1.
Cant argue with this :beer:
I would usually say that multiple people that keep posting well written proper rebuttals is repetitive... But on the topic of traction management I will hold my tounge because I am learning a great deal...
Please, carry on....
Please, carry on....
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