I haven't watched a Nascar race in a few years now. Use to be a rabid Nascar fan. But, I did see on the news that Kyle won his 200th Series race, tying Richard Petty. He is one hell of a driver for sure. Congrats to him.
Kyle Busch grabs win #200 in dominating fashion!
- Thread starter Kiohtee
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I am not sure I would have them in that order. I think Petty would be in front of kyle on any list I made assuming it is over all and not just a single subject eval.
I just don't feel like Richard Petty's accomplishments really amount to a whole lot when you consider the era he raced in. For instance:
50+ races a year
25-35 car fields (of which maybe two or three were competitive)
150-200 mile race lengths
Slower, easier to drive cars (coming from drivers who raced back then and wheeled the cars of the modern era)
Huge sponsor backing (that almost nobody else had)
Notice that when the level of competition in NASCAR really stepped up in the mid-to-late 70s, Richard Petty essentially fell off the face of the earth. JMO.
David Pearson might disagree with you.
Love him/hate him, he has the broadest skill set on the track. And he's not jimmy johnson, so that's a plus..
About what exactly? Nothing I said is false.
Jimmie Johnson will definitely go down in history as one of the best there ever was, unfortunately I think his time has come to an end. I don't see JJ putting his car back in victory lane unless it's at Daytona or Talladega.
Should JJ have his seven championships? No. Should Kyle Busch have his one and only so far? Also no. Alas, it's the rules we play by.
50 races a year, Kyle has the opportunity to run 52 to 70 races a year.
Number of cars not that different then today and there were a number a good racers as mentioned David Pearson and others.
Easier to drive? Slower? Today’s race cars are so much easier with all the modern tech that they did not have back then. Back then then we’re basically street cars with the doors welded shut.
Anyway Busch is good and may someday catch the Kings 200 top tier win record.
I read this 3 times & still can't figure it out.
JJ did win those championships. I feel like his team & money/quality of cars helped, that's a no brainer.
But the part with Kyle Bush? His skills over the course of the season was championship worthy. No?
It's easy to throw hate on Kyle. In the past, I couldn't stand him. But race by race, I saw him for what he actually is. Like it or not, a true skilled racer.
I've not watched like I used to. But when I was, he was the best driver every Sunday. And, evidently still is.
Kyle Busch nor anybody else to come will ever catch, much less surpass, Richard Petty's 200 MENCS wins. It's just not possible anymore. Kyle did it in a total of three national series combined, not in one single series like Petty. You use David Pearson as an argument to my number of competitive drivers comment, but who else can you name? Because I did say there were two or three others who could compete on a regular basis back then. But today? Try 10 or more. Until someone can prove me otherwise, once NASCAR started to get balls deep with the drivers we know today (the ones that mostly retired back in 2005-2010), Richard Petty didn't amount to jack.
And yes, based on what older drivers of the time have stated (Kyle Petty, Jeff Gordon, etc.), today's cars are harder to drive than yesteryear's cars. I'm not arguing with you on this as neither you or I have been there, so I'll have to take their word at face value and believe it to be true. They even say today's cars are doubly hard without power steering (which was a thing for NASCAR even back in the late 70s, early 80s).
I didn't say he didn't, I said I don't believe he should have. But that doesn't matter because those aren't the rules we live by today. Also note I didn't say Kyle Busch isn't a championship worthy driver, but that I don't believe he has won one in the correct regard. But at the end of the day JJ has seven and KB has one, regardless of how I feel.
I don't believe NASCAR should be determining race winners and championships based on stages and point resets. And keep in mind through all of this, I'm a current Kyle Busch fan. My favorite driver from the time I started watching in 2000 was Matt Kenseth, so maybe that explains my skewed view to today's rules.
Seeing post #20. So you're an Earnhardt fan?
Just to clarify for those who aren't aware.
200 wins = amongst all 3 NASCAR classes.
He’s won 94 Xfinity Series races, 53 Truck Series races and 53 Cup Series races.
200 wins = amongst all 3 NASCAR classes.
He’s won 94 Xfinity Series races, 53 Truck Series races and 53 Cup Series races.
Nope. I mean, I didn't hate the guy, but when I became a casual watcher in 2000 at the age of eight, I was a Matt Kenseth fan. That stuck up until his last race last year.
There's just no denying that Dale Earnhardt was the best racer ever IMO. 76 modern era wins, seven championships. All in a time when races didn't reset every 50-75 laps, the points didn't reset with 10 races to go and anyone in the top ten could've won. Winning and consistency was key. And Earnhardt was doing it up until his death in 2001 at the age of 49.
It's already been covered. Petty fan by chance? Lol
The majority of his wins are in the Xfinity and truck series. If he doesn't win when he's entered in those fields then its a bad day for him. He's typically the best driver in those fields and his equipment is way better than every team other than maybe JR Motorsports. All the cars aren't even close to equal. I'm in tight with a local Xfinity team just getting started and its amazing what the "BIG"teams do and the amount of R&D that goes into these cars. Its almost silly.
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Pretty interesting stat.... This was through the 2017 season from when NASCAR changed and went to the chase format.
If all races had been scored the same and no Chase playoff formats had been used from 2004 to today, needless to say, the list of NASCAR champions would be much, much different.
Here are some of the key differences
What do these differences mean for some of these drivers whose championship totals would be drastically different if no Chase had been used over the past 13 seasons?
If all races had been scored the same and no Chase playoff formats had been used from 2004 to today, needless to say, the list of NASCAR champions would be much, much different.
Here are some of the key differences
- Jeff Gordon would be one of just three 7-time champions along with Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt.
- Jimmie Johnson would have won just 3 championships as opposed to a record 7.
- Kevin Harvick would have won as many championships as Jimmie Johnson instead of 7 times fewer.
- Neither Kurt Busch nor Kyle Busch would have won a single championship.
- Carl Edwards, who has never won a championship, would be a 2-time champion.
- Tony Stewart would have as many championships as Carl Edwards instead of 3 more than him.
What do these differences mean for some of these drivers whose championship totals would be drastically different if no Chase had been used over the past 13 seasons?
The majority of his wins are in the Xfinity Series, yes. I won't deny he's typically the class of the field there, but he's still taking cars that others struggle to compete with while he dominates in them. Just look at his truck team and how he called out one of his own drivers recently. I will clarify that he does have as many GOTS wins as he does MENSC wins. I guess my greater point is that Kyle's 94 wins in Xfinity are about the equivalent of how easy Richard Petty won the majority of his 200 back in the '60s and '70s, but now that Kyle is doing it it's frowned upon and somehow cheapens the value (read: haters). Because in the end, Xfinity races today are the lengths that Petty was used to racing back then, with just as many possible (true) competitors today.
If NASCAR were still using the traditional points method that the majority of us are familiar with, here's how things would look today:
2004: Jeff Gordon (5)
2005: Tony Stewart (2)
2006: Jimmie Johnson (1)
2007: Jeff Gordon (6)
2008: Carl Edwards (1)
2009: Jimmie Johnson (2)
2010: Kevin Harvick (1)
2011: Carl Edwards (2)
2012: Brad Keselowski (1)
2013: Jimmie Johnson (3)
2014: Jeff Gordon (7)
2015: Kevin Harvick (2)
2016: Kevin Harvick (3)
2017: Martin Truex Jr. (1)
2018: Kyle Busch (1)
If I had to assemble a top ten drivers list, mine would look something like this:
1. Dale Earnhardt
2. Jeff Gordon
3. Darrell Waltrip
4. Jimmie Johnson
5. Cale Yarborough
6. Bobby Allison
7. Tony Stewart
8. Kyle Busch
9. ?
10. ?
And this I agree with 100%. It doesn't matter what I think or feel, because that isn't how NASCAR is determining their race winners and champions, but now maybe you see what I'm getting at a little. At the end of the day, whoever has won races from 2017 on and championships from 2004 on, have. Period. But a lot of guys have been cheated from shining in their careers because of this move, and it's disheartening. They couldn't really care less because they're still great and making millions, but it's the fans it's killing. I know Edwards isn't too happy about it though.
Just off the top of my head. junior Johnson, Allison brothers, Buddy Baker, Benny Parsons, Cale Yarbrough, Neil Bonnet, Harry Giant, etc. They all won races and championships during the hey days of 60-70s.
Used to watch the Daytona 500 as it was the only race broadcast back then. Once they started dicking around with the rules after Kenseth wrapped up his championship early I started losing interest. And have only watched Daytona since they went to the stupid playoff format.
Of all those drivers you listed, only like three of them have more than 20 wins and a championship, further eluding to my point. If it wasn't Petty, it was Bobby Allison or Cale Yarborough back then. Sure some others snuck in and grabbed wins just like Austin Dillon, Aric Almirola, etc. do today, but they weren't the forefront of the field 95% of the time like those other three.
Face it, we don't agree on this and neither of our minds will be swayed, but you just can't argue with facts.
Try 6 of them.
Actually no not at all. Just a casual NASCAR fan, and wasn't sure if others knew what the 200 wins was.
You hear 200 wins and assume he won them all in the Cup races. I don't care either way I think it's remarkable.
I go to NHMS every year and stay for the weekend up on "the hill" with my Sister's family. (Since 2010)
The nail in the coffin for me was the stages they added. That about killed the sport all together. Half of the challenge and skill was knowing when to take a trip to the pit for tires/gas. Now that shit is just handed to them at the end of each stage. Takes most of the fun out of it, for me anyway.
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