Kooks vs. JBA LT's??

[drkmrkiv]

I am currently running Pypes. I regret going with them. I am going to have to replace them here soon enough. Fitment is not great at all. I have 3 different leaks/cracks. They have been on my car for roughly 7k miles.

I am interested in the SW "generic" headers, or whatever their cheaper version of headers are called. Fitment and overall quality being a main priority for me.

 

[devildog1679]

So my conclusion is that the only real difference b/w Kooks and JBA is that the Kooks are 304 vs. 409 steel. Non issue since I don't see either one rusting through. The other difference is the 1-3/4" vs. 1-7/8" primaries. Not planning on boosting the car since I'll only have it for another 3 years. The power differences are negligible b/w the two headers so I'm going the JBA route. Thank You all for your input. The $$ I save can now go to finding a shop to do the install.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I am very impressed with the Kooks longtubes.
Fitment is excellent (easy install compared to others), no O2 issue, and the power gains impressive.

We did 2 sets of kooks at the shop in one day (2 guys wanted the exact same mods).
One on a 2013 GT M6 and the other a 2013 Boss.

The Boss was of interest as I had custom tuned it a few weeks prior so we had before numbers (not stock, but tuned). With a CAI and GT500 axle back the Boss put down 396 SAE tuned. We then installed the following:
1. Kooks long tube headers
2. Kooks off road X
3. Over the axle pipes
4. Acufab 84.5mm TB

Retuned the Boss out down 442SAE (46HP gains!).
The GT was also in the upper 430's SAE with identical mods but we did not do pre-mod Dyno runs.

Prior TB testing of the Acufab alone has shown an average of 5HP, but even if you say the TB is worth 10HP, the Kooks off road setup is still very impressive. Especially when you see the gains thruought the power band.

I can post up a comparison graph of the Boss if anyone is interested.

 

[Rct851]

Shaun do you have any comparison graphs of a tuned GT with ORX vs kooks LTs and ORX?

 

[paulwalll]

I am very impressed with the Kooks longtubes.
Fitment is excellent (easy install compared to others), no O2 issue, and the power gains impressive.

We did 2 sets of kooks at the shop in one day (2 guys wanted the exact same mods).
One on a 2013 GT M6 and the other a 2013 Boss.

The Boss was of interest as I had custom tuned it a few weeks prior so we had before numbers (not stock, but tuned). With a CAI and GT500 axle back the Boss put down 396 SAE tuned. We then installed the following:
1. Kooks long tube headers
2. Kooks off road X
3. Over the axle pipes
4. Acufab 84.5mm TB

Retuned the Boss out down 442SAE (46HP gains!).
The GT was also in the upper 430's SAE with identical mods but we did not do pre-mod Dyno runs.

Prior TB testing of the Acufab alone has shown an average of 5HP, but even if you say the TB is worth 10HP, the Kooks off road setup is still very impressive. Especially when you see the gains thruought the power band.

I can post up a comparison graph of the Boss if anyone is interested.

Were those 1 3/4" or 1 7/8" LT's?

 

[SCalla1384]

So my conclusion is that the only real difference b/w Kooks and JBA is that the Kooks are 304 vs. 409 steel. Non issue since I don't see either one rusting through. The other difference is the 1-3/4" vs. 1-7/8" primaries. Not planning on boosting the car since I'll only have it for another 3 years. The power differences are negligible b/w the two headers so I'm going the JBA route. Thank You all for your input. The $$ I save can now go to finding a shop to do the install.

It's not just the difference in steel. Look how they are made.

I've seen pictures of the primaries being rough, not completely circled, etc... Not on jba headers but different brands.

I also beleive kooks makes every primary the same length. Which helps with scavenging and making more power.

You'd really need to have a set of kooks and Pypes/jba/BBK right in front of you. And I bet you'll see the difference. Can look at pictures online, but won't do it justice.

 

[SCalla1384]

I am very impressed with the Kooks longtubes.
Fitment is excellent (easy install compared to others), no O2 issue, and the power gains impressive.

We did 2 sets of kooks at the shop in one day (2 guys wanted the exact same mods).
One on a 2013 GT M6 and the other a 2013 Boss.

The Boss was of interest as I had custom tuned it a few weeks prior so we had before numbers (not stock, but tuned). With a CAI and GT500 axle back the Boss put down 396 SAE tuned. We then installed the following:
1. Kooks long tube headers
2. Kooks off road X
3. Over the axle pipes
4. Acufab 84.5mm TB

Retuned the Boss out down 442SAE (46HP gains!).
The GT was also in the upper 430's SAE with identical mods but we did not do pre-mod Dyno runs.

Prior TB testing of the Acufab alone has shown an average of 5HP, but even if you say the TB is worth 10HP, the Kooks off road setup is still very impressive. Especially when you see the gains thruought the power band.

I can post up a comparison graph of the Boss if anyone is interested.

That is very impressive. Can you post up the graphs? I take it those with 1-3/4?

 

[Grabber2012]

I know the kooks and ARH blend the primaries at the flange so it flows better right out of the head.

 

[Shaun@AED]

 

[nonliberal]

That's impressive. I wonder how much of that gain was just from losing the cats?

 

[devildog1679]

I am very impressed with the Kooks longtubes.
Fitment is excellent (easy install compared to others), no O2 issue, and the power gains impressive.

We did 2 sets of kooks at the shop in one day (2 guys wanted the exact same mods).
One on a 2013 GT M6 and the other a 2013 Boss.

The Boss was of interest as I had custom tuned it a few weeks prior so we had before numbers (not stock, but tuned). With a CAI and GT500 axle back the Boss put down 396 SAE tuned. We then installed the following:
1. Kooks long tube headers
2. Kooks off road X
3. Over the axle pipes
4. Acufab 84.5mm TB

Retuned the Boss out down 442SAE (46HP gains!).
The GT was also in the upper 430's SAE with identical mods but we did not do pre-mod Dyno runs.

Prior TB testing of the Acufab alone has shown an average of 5HP, but even if you say the TB is worth 10HP, the Kooks off road setup is still very impressive. Especially when you see the gains thruought the power band.

I can post up a comparison graph of the Boss if anyone is interested.

Damn you, your making me spend more $$. By the way I'm the one that e-mailed you yesterday from a Kraft Foods address. Once I get my setup I'll be contacting you for my remote tune. What time do you think should be average for a shop to do the install? Kooks and H? Was also debating a TB but was not sure if the $$/HP is worth it?

 

[Shaun@AED]

That's impressive. I wonder how much of that gain was just from losing the cats?

We've tested Cat Delete pipes in the past with no other changes and they came right in line with SVTP's testing. 18-22HP for 3" off-road pipes.

 

[SCalla1384]

That is really impressive.

It's odd because some people see like 5whp going from off road mid to headers, some see 15+whp.

I'm looking at it, I just want headers for sound. Any power gained is just a bonus lol

 

[ford20]

Was that with 1 7/8th headers or 1 3/4 headers? I assume there would be a little loss of torque by going with the 1 7/8ths.

 

[nonliberal]

We've tested Cat Delete pipes in the past with no other changes and they came right in line with SVTP's testing. 18-22HP for 3" off-road pipes.

Good info!

 

[Grabber2012]

Shaun have y'all done any testing on the kooks 1 7/8 shorty headers?

 

[beefcake]

for the money, the jba' or stainless power are the best buys, the pypes stepped work really good and we have killer deals on them

beef
513-478-1965

 

[corysmach1]

Shaun- I am also curious if those were 1-7/8. Also people say they have no issues with Kooks On E85 which is a huge bonus as i run E85. Not sure why there is a difference my guess is the location of the 02's? I am just curious how much powrr id gain from Kools Longtubes since i already have off road x pipe?

 

[Shaun@AED]

Damn you, your making me spend more $$. By the way I'm the one that e-mailed you yesterday from a Kraft Foods address. Once I get my setup I'll be contacting you for my remote tune. What time do you think should be average for a shop to do the install? Kooks and H? Was also debating a TB but was not sure if the $$/HP is worth it?

Typical install time is 6 hours give or take. The Kooks are much easier to fit than other brands we've installed. Out of the 2 sets we installed one of the mid-pipes was longer and had to be cut down to fit properly. The other set was a true bolt-in, no modification necessary. Don't ask me why...

That is really impressive.

It's odd because some people see like 5whp going from off road mid to headers, some see 15+whp.

I'm looking at it, I just want headers for sound. Any power gained is just a bonus lol

We have seen 15-20HP LOSSES from headers if the TiVCT is not modified appropriately for the change. Anytime you modify Intake or Exhaust runner length TiVCT at WOT (OP) should be changed to maximize power output. Better scavenging = Move the cam timing to take full advantage.

Was that with 1 7/8th headers or 1 3/4 headers? I assume there would be a little loss of torque by going with the 1 7/8ths.

I am not 100% certain, but I believe these were the 1-7/8th versions. The customers we installed these parts on 'go big' on everything if you know what I mean. We had to return their 90MM TB's and purchase 84.5MM TB's, and that was a struggle trying to convince them anything over the 83MM Intake Manifold Inlet was pointless.

Shaun have y'all done any testing on the kooks 1 7/8 shorty headers?

Yes. Very similar gains to JBA Longtubes actually. Lots of low-end increase (20+) and under 10HP up top. The Shorties don't fit as good as the long tubes, so we are currently not recommending the shorties till Kooks modifies the design to fit better (if they haven't already).

Shaun- I am also curious if those were 1-7/8. Also people say they have no issues with Kooks On E85 which is a huge bonus as i run E85. Not sure why there is a difference my guess is the location of the 02's? I am just curious how much powrr id gain from Kools Longtubes since i already have off road x pipe?

We have not found it necessary to move the O2 sensors on any Kooks headers. The O2 locations in the Shorties are PERFECT, Long tube O2 location is not ideal, but not as bad as others.
Gains from Headers alone vs Off Road I'd say would be 15HP peak with larger gains down low. I have no back to back tests of headers vs off road only, but given the consistency of longtube vs off road only cars, this is what I would expect.

 

[JUIC3D]

Good informative posts Shaun. Thanks for the detailed responses.