I'm ready for BIG brakes...school me please

[Bruha]

"BUT if you go with the Baer 6P Caliper upgrade you can use 13" rotors which are REALLY cheap."

This is one reason I went the F14 kit. I wanted to brake torque over the 13". I am sure the Baer are great. I got a great deal on the F14 at the time. I paid 1,495 shipped to my door. I couldn't find anything like that at the time I was looking to buy. It is also nice to have a kit put together by the guy that knows the braking dynamics of our cars.

 

[TPSMak]

"BUT if you go with the Baer 6P Caliper upgrade you can use 13" rotors which are REALLY cheap."

This is one reason I went the F14 kit. I wanted to brake torque over the 13". I am sure the Baer are great. I got a great deal on the F14 at the time. I paid 1,495 shipped to my door. I couldn't find anything like that at the time I was looking to buy. It is also nice to have a kit put together by the guy that knows the braking dynamics of our cars.

I have absolutely NO DOUBT the F14 kit works well.. I giving another option to the OP for a kit that was priced close to the F14 kit. I'm sure Baer knows a "little bit" about braking dynamics also:beer:

 

[03 DSG Snake]

"BUT if you go with the Baer 6P Caliper upgrade you can use 13" rotors which are REALLY cheap."

This is one reason I went the F14 kit. I wanted to brake torque over the 13". I am sure the Baer are great. I got a great deal on the F14 at the time. I paid 1,495 shipped to my door. I couldn't find anything like that at the time I was looking to buy. It is also nice to have a kit put together by the guy that knows the braking dynamics of our cars.

14" also better for lower rotor temps. :burnout:

 

[Bruha]

I hear ya... not trying to be an ass. :beer:

I have absolutely NO DOUBT the F14 kit works well.. I giving another option to the OP for a kit that was priced close to the F14 kit. I'm sure Baer knows a "little bit" about braking dynamics also:beer:

 

[Bruha]

Yes indeed. That is a huge plus. I was surprised at how little the temps dropped with the 00R set up. I think the 13" rotor is the problem.

I saw Jimmy post once he thinks the car should have come with 18" wheels and 14" brakes. I couldn't agree more. These cars don't have enough brake from the factory for the kind of horsepower most of us are pushing now!!

14" also better for lower rotor temps. :burnout:

 

[Silver TT]

Spent about an hour on the phone with Rob Eaton yesterday. Could not be a nicer or more knowledgeable guy IMHO...

Didn't take a lot for him to get way over my head on braking dynamics and rotor heat inertia, etc. but he definitely knows his stuff and is a an extremely forthright guy. I asked a lot of questions, about 25 probably, and he spoke highly of other options in the market and never said his was "the best" or anything like that. Just gave me the facts.

I came away from the discussion thinking the following:

1. The F14 kit appears to be the most economical way to run a very high quality 14" rotor made by a leading manufacturer. Sure, there are two piece 14" rotors for sale which might give some marginal track improvement IF they are constructed properly but most of those setups run closer to $3,000 vs $1495.

2. Serviceability and expense of replacement parts is very attractive on the F14 kit given it is a GT500 rotor and widely available pad (GT 500, CTS-V OEM part).

3. Monobloc calipers are very important as the stiffness of the caliper and its connecting bolts are AS important as any other component of the braking system.

Other thoughts:

Slotted vs Plain
We spent a lot of time discussing the whole slotted vs plain rotor thing. And then I continued to do some research and it seems while not as "sexy" as a slotted or drilled rotor (and I also understand the very big difference between slotted and drilled) a plain face rotor is the right rotor for a mostly street driven and lightly tracked car for a LOT of reasons. Slotted is generally fine but also unecessary because today's brake pad compounds don't produce a lot of gas so there is no need to reduce rotor sweep area with slots unless you are running a compound which produces a lot of unintended gases at high temps. He is happy to sell you a rotor with slots if you prefer at same cost. Or discount the kit and let you choose your own rotor all together.

Stainless/Braided vs High Quality Rubber Line Hose
Lots of debate on this topic but Rob said the very high quality rubber hose they use in this kit shows a 4/1000 of an inch difference in pedal travel vs stainless and for most drivers (even occasional track day guys) it makes a lot more sense to have a rubber hose vs stainless for durability and flexibility concerns which are the main cause of brake line leaks/failures. Even at operating temp that pedal travel difference is said to be only about 6/1000 of an inch difference so its pretty much a non-issue. He is happy to sell you a braided line if you prefer.

Last thought...if a plain face Brembo rotor is the rotor of choice for a track purposed Boss 302 Laguna Seca I would guess we don't all need to be running around with slotted or drilled rotors.

Conclusion:
If you have $3,000 laying around and want the best of the best and don't mind very expensive replacement costs a Brembo or Baer or Stoptech 6 Piston Caliper with very high quality 14" two piece rotor is probably the best package. If you want 95% of that performance with 25% of the service / replacement costs, the F14 kit seems to be a very comprehensive and well thought out BBK.

PS - I have zero incentive here one way or the other...just thought I'd spend a minute writing up what I learned since Rob was so generous with his time. Obviously this data / viewpoint is his own but he was very objective with me on the phone and I am sure would be with you as well if you give a call.

 

[Bruha]

After my 45-60 min conversation with Rob I felt the same way. When you look at the big picture, his kit will be less out of pocket. All the way around.

I agree, he never once acted like his kit was the best. He talked more about cost of service down the road. If my car was a track only car, things would be different. For most of the guys on here, this kit will FAR exceed anything they will ever encounter.

Good post.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

Rob has been 10x more helpful than any other vendor I've used, and I haven't even BOUGHT anything from him.

More than likely I wlll go with the F14 and replace them with a 2 piece once I burn up the Brembo blanks.

 

[SnakeBit]

A tip

Before changing your calipers, flush the brake fluid. No sense running dirty brake fluid through new calipers.

 

[jrgoffin]

When you look at the big picture, his kit will be less out of pocket. All the way around.

It's a nice kit for sure, but how do you figure it will be less all the way around? For most guys with 17" wheels, you now have to factor in 18" wheels plus new tires - that could be another $2000 easy on top of the $1400 brake kit. If you already have the 18" wheels, then no worries obviously.

For a large number of cars out there, you are right, it will FAR exceed anything they encounter. The Brembo and Baer kits for the 13" rotors are easily more cost effective and will do the job just fine. Even the PBR caliper with good pads and rotors can be enough.

 

[Bruha]

Agreed... I should have clarified. I was not factoring in wheels. Definitely should be considered in the upgrade cost. I based my opinion on the fact that was already squared away.

Good point.

It's a nice kit for sure, but how do you figure it will be less all the way around? For most guys with 17" wheels, you now have to factor in 18" wheels plus new tires - that could be another $2000 easy on top of the $1400 brake kit. If you already have the 18" wheels, then no worries obviously.

For a large number of cars out there, you are right, it will FAR exceed anything they encounter. The Brembo and Baer kits for the 13" rotors are easily more cost effective and will do the job just fine. Even the PBR caliper with good pads and rotors can be enough.

 

[Silver TT]

Before changing your calipers, flush the brake fluid. No sense running dirty brake fluid through new calipers.

Thank you for this tip. Is there a write-up on the best way to do this?

I plan to use all new brake fluid and probably buy one of these:
Motive Products #1 Selling DIY Brake Bleeder

But I have never done a brake job yet so any advice on how to flush prior to caliper swap would be great, thanks.

 

[jrgoffin]

Thank you for this tip. Is there a write-up on the best way to do this?

I plan to use all new brake fluid and probably buy one of these:
Motive Products #1 Selling DIY Brake Bleeder

But I have never done a brake job yet so any advice on how to flush prior to caliper swap would be great, thanks.

The Motive bleeder is pretty much idiot-proof. Once you use it you'll never bleed brakes the old fashioned way. You can do all four corners in a matter of minutes and the pedal will be rock hard. There will be instructions included that spell it out - just be sure to use a couple bottles of fluid and keep it pumped up.

 

[Silver TT]

Perfect, thanks. And lastly, any recommendation for best brake fluid for a 04 Cobra with F14 front kit, running 90% on street and 10% track days?

 

[99COBRA2881]

The pad surface area for the Baer 6P caliper is much larger than the F14/ Brembo kit.. here is a picture of the standard PBR pad compared to a 200 Cobra R pad. The Baer 6P uses a Corvette C6 brake pad which is larger than the normal PBR pad

That's a nice picture ;-), could you post up a pic of the 6p pad compared to the stock pbr?

Also a quick note about the stock PBR caliper bolts and the '00 cobra R brembo calipers. The stock bolts are too short and dont engage all the threads in the ear of the Brembo caliper.

Granted this probably won't ever cause any problems but its a critical part that should be attached to the spindle best as possible.

The new bolts are flange head M12x40mm 10.9 rated. You'll need 4.

Before

After

 

[TPSMak]

That's a nice picture ;-), could you post up a pic of the 6p pad compared to the stock pbr?

Here's a picture I took of a Hawk HPS front Pad for the Stock Cobra PBR Caliper and the Baer 6P caliper. The pad for the PBR caliper if significantly larger.

 

[50 Deep]

No complaints here on the Wilwoods. Now that i have them properly bled the bite is pretty good. However a big factor is also going to be your tires. When i did my brake testing it looks like the brakes have more stopping power than my front tires can handle. I havent driven a mustang with anything other than stock cobra brakes so i cant say how they stack up against other big brake kits on the market. Chances are if your car is street driven you will never really see the full benefit of them, but the 14inch rotors look sick and im sure the 6 piston caliper will help in an emergency stop situation

 

[SnakeBit]

Thank you for this tip. Is there a write-up on the best way to do this?

I plan to use all new brake fluid and probably buy one of these:
Motive Products #1 Selling DIY Brake Bleeder

But I have never done a brake job yet so any advice on how to flush prior to caliper swap would be great, thanks.

A couple of things on the Motive.

1. On their site, they say that adapter mod 1107 fits the Ford 3 prong cap (look under your cap to see if it is 2 prong or 3 prong). However, the one I got was too large to fit properly. The adapter has a "cap" which has an O-Ring and fits down into the bore of the reservoir. The oem cap seals on the top edge of the reservoir. I put mine on the lathe at work and sanded it down (only had to go .020" diameter). But before I did that, I used the universal adapter which came with the kit I bought. It rests on top with a rubber seal, a chain goes around the master cylinder and J-Hooks tighten it down. I did a pressure test without fluid and it held 10lbs for 5 minutes so I thought I was good to go. But when I got to the right side front, I noticed a large puddle of brake fluid under the car.

So my advice is to do it outside and not in your garage. In case of a leak like this, you can stick a water hose and wash down the inner fender right away (Brake fluid will eat right through your paint). I had to finish up (after tightening it down again) before I could back out to flush the fender off.

2. Go to U-Tube. There are several videos showing you how it works and more importantly, how you finish up to evacuate the line BEFORE removing it from your reservoir.

Another tip is to mark on the outside of the canister where the tube inside is because to evacuate, that side must be turned up so the tube is sucking air and NOT brake fluid (you do that on the LAST wheel). Since the canister is opaque, you will not know which side goes up, so mark it first.

3. I'm using Motul DOT 4 fluid. It comes in amber and in blue. If you switch colors each time you flush, the color change indicates when each wheel is fully flushed. Of course old fluid is noticeably darker while fresh fluid is lighter in color so it's not really that hard to tell, still the brake fluid color change helps.

Back to the Ford adapter. Motive Tech Support has been most helpful, and even offered to change it out for me, but the rest they had in stock were also too big to fit so I opted to try the lathe. You may not have the same fit as I did, but it's good to know that they WILL help out. No complaints here. And I love it in spite of my problems.

It remains to be seen if the paint on my inner fender will start coming off. If it does, oh well, lesson learned. Won't make that mistake again.

 

[Silver TT]

Great advice. Thank you for all the info snakebit. Good to hear Motive is helpful on adaptors, etc.

 

[Silver TT]

Now that I have decided on the Venom F14 front brake kit (14" Brembo Rotor; 4 piston monobloc caliper, steel brackets, ARP hardened studs, etc) I need to upgrade or at least refresh the rear brake setup.

Any suggestions? I was thinking of going with one of the 14" rear kits but I don't see any that work really well with the 03/04 Cobra. I think FTBR has one but its pretty pricey for just new rotors / brackets.