I'm ready for BIG brakes...school me please

[mu22stang]

Can we go back here for a minute?
What provides good braking in a tire? Does a grippy rear tire like the Toyo R888 translate directly to a grippy front tire? Or are there other elements about a front tire that affect braking grip in different ways than grip on a rear tire for traction in going faster?

A tire’s traction and grip characteristics are not necessarily related - the construction (e.g. sidewall) is just as much a part of the equation as the rubber compound. Mismatched front and rear tires - whether that mismatch is compound, brand, or width - can create some strange braking characteristics. The most predictable place to start is a square setup, same tire brand and model.

 

[Silver TT]

That 'BIG' kit only has the pad surface area of a 13" 4 piston 00R caliper. :shrug:

So is this why the Wilwood kits are about 1200-1500 cheaper than the Brembo or Baer 14" front brake kits?

I really need to go with a 14" front kit soon and I'm getting 18" wheels with the BBK cut so I will have the correct wheel clearance soon. With the kind of power our cars make I feel like the stock brakes are by far the weakest link even in just spirited street driving. I will probably also bite the bullet and do the correct rear kit as well to keep braking performance consistent on both ends.

 

[jrgoffin]

A tire with a 200 traction rating will be twice as good as a tire with a 400 traction rating in both braking and driven traction. An 800 rating will be half as good as a 400 rating.

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

Traction grades are represented by letters: AA, A, B, or C.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

So is this why the Wilwood kits are about 1200-1500 cheaper than the Brembo or Baer 14" front brake kits?

I really need to go with a 14" front kit soon and I'm getting 18" wheels with the BBK cut so I will have the correct wheel clearance soon. With the kind of power our cars make I feel like the stock brakes are by far the weakest link even in just spirited street driving. I will probably also bite the bullet and do the correct rear kit as well to keep braking performance consistent on both ends.

I am not sure on the Wilwood pricing. I do know Brembo setups are usually fairly high, that's why the 00R has been considered such a bargain for so long.

The VV F14 kit is a very nice setup for what you get, and is probably the route I am going to take:

SN95 Mustang: F14 Front Brake Package — Vintage Venom - Vintage Mustang Disc Brake Kits

Note the pad area at 77sq cm vs. the 00R at 52 sq cm.

 

[Silver TT]

I am not sure on the Wilwood pricing. I do know Brembo setups are usually fairly high, that's why the 00R has been considered such a bargain for so long.

The VV F14 kit is a very nice setup for what you get, and is probably the route I am going to take:

SN95 Mustang: F14 Front Brake Package — Vintage Venom - Vintage Mustang Disc Brake Kits

Note the pad area at 77sq cm vs. the 00R at 52 sq cm.

That is very helpful, thank you. Anyone know the pad area on the Wilwood 6 piston kit? I have looked at the links but couldn't find those specs.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

That is very helpful, thank you. Anyone know the pad area on the Wilwood 6 piston kit? I have looked at the links but couldn't find those specs.

They list it here: Wilwood High Performance Disc Brakes - 2003 Ford Mustang - Front Brake Kit No.: 140-9117-DR

Pad area is 8.2sq in which converts to 52.90sq cm. Basically the same pad area as the 00R kit.



edit: The Wilwood 6 piston caliper also appears to be two piece, which also keeps the price on the kit lower. Any monoblock caliper is more expensive than a two piece.

 

[ac427cobra]

Traction grades are represented by letters: AA, A, B, or C.

Sorry, treadwear rating! :thumbsup:

 

[TPSMak]

Another great Big Brake option is the Baer 6P caliper upgrade for Cobra/ Mach 1/ Bullit/ front brakes. This upgrades allows you to run 13" rotors AND be able to fit under alot of 17" wheels including the factory 2003 Cobra wheels.

 

[shts_weak]

i was told stoptech makes the best kit? is this true?

 

[Silver TT]

This has been an incredibly helpful thread. Thank you all for the advice.

I think I am going to go with the Vintage Venom F14 Front + Rear kit.

SN95 Mustang: F14 Front Brake Package — Vintage Venom - Vintage Mustang Disc Brake Kits

Seems to be the best kit short of maybe a 14" 6 piston Brembo or Baer full kit which would run at least another $1500 - 2000 for the F+R and also have more expensive components to replace.

Anyone experience the F14 kit with the OEM rubber hoses vs SS lines and can feel a difference? On the vintage website they seem to make claims there is no performance disadvantage with the OEM rubber lines and seem to imply it is actually superior to SS in terms of fitment and reliability.

 

[jrgoffin]

The Vintage Venom kit is nice for sure, and the price is right. Don't forget though, you now need 18" wheels - so factor in a bunch more cash...

 

[TPSMak]

This has been an incredibly helpful thread. Thank you all for the advice.

I think I am going to go with the Vintage Venom F14 Front + Rear kit.

SN95 Mustang: F14 Front Brake Package — Vintage Venom - Vintage Mustang Disc Brake Kits

Seems to be the best kit short of maybe a 14" 6 piston Brembo or Baer full kit which would run at least another $1500 - 2000 for the F+R and also have more expensive components to replace.

Anyone experience the F14 kit with the OEM rubber hoses vs SS lines and can feel a difference? On the vintage website they seem to make claims there is no performance disadvantage with the OEM rubber lines and seem to imply it is actually superior to SS in terms of fitment and reliability.

Actually I believe the Baer Pro Plus kit is a better kit for several reasons.

#1-It has 2 piece rotors vs. the 1 piece of the Venom kit. Also, the Baer rotors are directional and are designed to offer better cooling than the base GT500 rotors. You can have your choice of slotted or cross drilled rotors from Baer.

#2-The Baer calipers are 6 piston vs. 4 for the Venom kit

#3-Price is not that much different. We sell the Baer Pro Plus w/ 6 Piston caliper and 14" 2 Piece Rotors for $1899 delivered to your door. This includes red, silver or black colors. If you chose the Vintage Venom kit in red it costs $1855 after shipping.

IMO, the choice is pretty obvious.... you get more with the Baer kit for your money.

 

[TPSMak]

i was told stoptech makes the best kit? is this true?

Stoptech brakes are excellent because their calipers are the stiffest, Fully Forged 2-piece, Opposed Piston Calipers around. Plus their Aero Rotors are designed to maximize airflow to increase cooling in the veins and hats.

StopTech 2-piece calipers have the lowest amount of flex and deflection among 25 of the leading caliper models (including some monoblocks) from well-known manufacturers. This is accomplished using StopTech's patented bolt-in bridge, which is strong enough to stop distortion without sacrificing cooling through the top of the caliper.

Stiffer Calipers Offer:
-Less vibration
-less Noise
-Better pedal feel under extreme braking conditions
-Faster braking response
-Less pad taper

so they have the

 

[Silver TT]

Another great Big Brake option is the Baer 6P caliper upgrade for Cobra/ Mach 1/ Bullit/ front brakes. This upgrades allows you to run 13" rotors AND be able to fit under alot of 17" wheels including the factory 2003 Cobra wheels.

Thanks for the suggestion. Where can you buy this Baer kit?

 

[TPSMak]

Thanks for the suggestion. Where can you buy this Baer kit?

We are a Baer racing dealer and you can get the kit from us

 

[Silver TT]

Actually I believe the Baer Pro Plus kit is a better kit for several reasons.

#1-It has 2 piece rotors vs. the 1 piece of the Venom kit. Also, the Baer rotors are directional and are designed to offer better cooling than the base GT500 rotors. You can have your choice of slotted or cross drilled rotors from Baer.

#2-The Baer calipers are 6 piston vs. 4 for the Venom kit

#3-Price is not that much different. We sell the Baer Pro Plus w/ 6 Piston caliper and 14" 2 Piece Rotors for $1899 delivered to your door. This includes red, silver or black colors. If you chose the Vintage Venom kit in red it costs $1855 after shipping.

IMO, the choice is pretty obvious.... you get more with the Baer kit for your money.

What is the pad surface area of the Baer 6 piston kit?

The Venom F14 kit has a surface area of 77sq cm compared to the 2000 Cobra-R caliper at only 52 sq cm and the Brembo aftermarket kits are 62 sq cm.

 

[Bruha]

^Kinda what I was thinking. I think any of these are over kill on the street. I will say this though. I think the F14 kit will be much cheaper to service compared to the Baer Pro Plus kit. Those two rotors can't be cheap.

I absolutely love my F14 kit. Would do it again without question. I like it almost as much as my FTBR kit! Best two upgrades I have made. Whipple coming in a close third.

 

[ac427cobra]

I like it almost as much as my FTBR kit! Best two upgrades I have made. Whipple coming in a close third.

Glad you're enjoying your FTBR IRS bushing kit. :coolman:

You're not the first person that has said he liked the FTBR kit mod more than his KB or Whipple mod!! :-D

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[TPSMak]

What is the pad surface area of the Baer 6 piston kit?

The Venom F14 kit has a surface area of 77sq cm compared to the 2000 Cobra-R caliper at only 52 sq cm and the Brembo aftermarket kits are 62 sq cm.

The pad surface area for the Baer 6P caliper is much larger than the F14/ Brembo kit.. here is a picture of the standard PBR pad compared to a 200 Cobra R pad. The Baer 6P uses a Corvette C6 brake pad which is larger than the normal PBR pad

^Kinda what I was thinking. I think any of these are over kill on the street. I will say this though. I think the F14 kit will be much cheaper to service compared to the Baer Pro Plus kit. Those two rotors can't be cheap.

I absolutely love my F14 kit. Would do it again without question. I like it almost as much as my FTBR kit! Best two upgrades I have made. Whipple coming in a close third.

The F14 kit is cheaper to service than the whole Baer Pro Plus kit.... BUT if you go with the Baer 6P Caliper upgrade you can use 13" rotors which are REALLY cheap.

BTW, I believe the FTBR kit is what people should do BEFORE they add a blower... traction is bad already on a Cobra and adding more power just makes it worse.

 

[TPSMak]

Glad you're enjoying your FTBR IRS bushing kit. :coolman:

You're not the first person that has said he liked the FTBR kit mod more than his KB or Whipple mod!! :-D

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

FTBR kit should ALWAYS be done before adding more power