How to catch a GTR, need advice on which way to go

[Grant808]

is this to prevent the extra squat and dive you get by screwing up the rear geometry?

Yes, lowering the car does 'screw up' the rear geometry and the brackets can undo the extra squat.

I didn't find the extra squat that bad since its lower there is less total squat to or dive anyway.

please elaborate.

That's exactly how I felt after I lowered my GT with P springs. It didn't seem bad or seem to have any loss of traction or adverse braking issues. I thought that since I was lowering only an inch that the negative effects wouldn't be *that* significant since everything felt better than stock. Control arms were only pointing slightly downward toward the front. But after I added just the Whiteline relocation brackets traction and braking stability were improved. Corner exit and straight line traction were greatly improved.

Rear LCAs are pointing up about an inch toward the front, which isn't ideal for braking force. I haven't noticed any problems there, but I am running 'spilt torque' with less aggressive pads in the rear. HT10 front and HP+ rear. I should probably video the car under hard braking and see if the rear arms level out. No issues with rear lockup or anything and it feels much more stable than without the brackets and waaay better than stock.

 

[Grant808]

The battery idea I guess would be Strictly from a road race point of view. Trying to get the balance for and aft as close to 50/50 as possible for a front engine/rwd beast.

Update after my last race class. As far as the brake ducts and PFZ pads go, huge improvement over the previous HPS pads and such. Still managed to cook the pads once after 30min but they recovered very quickly. Now I understand what some of the more experienced posters ment by learning how to brake! I have been braking for too long instead of one strong firm push to the peddle. That makes me cook the brakes needlessly. Well worth the money to get some professional instruction on the track. Was thinking of going to Motul 66o from ATE blue too try to avoid drama on the track.

The 275/35-19 tires up front did not make such a huge difference as I was hoping for but did seem to make rotating the tail out easier by lifting off a little into the faster corners, grip in braking seemed better as well. The -1.5 camber probably helped the grip as well and after almost 200 km on the track the wear was much less then previous times. The lower profile tire is harder riding and I lowered the suspension setting too 2 for street. On the track I had 5 all around.

Did your time drop any? Did you just swap out the fronts? More video?

Glad everything seems to be working better.

 

[Splatter]

bad luck that day as my phone app went nuts I did not get a time or video, Will see if I can rescue something from the phone. I have a properly timed event at another track on the 24th and my usual track on the 7th Sept. Just the fronts were changed as lots of life on the rears... Did get the 2nd gear down now for the slow corner though so I hope I improved. My main race buddy is in a Cayman R, he noticed I was braking much better but he got a flat after two laps so I could not compare with him directly.
Makes me nervous as I have no spare still! Will see about getting a G-tech gps for lap times in the future

 

[86Fbody]

I saw you said you put the car to 5/5 all around. I would think once you figure out how you like to drive you may end up softening the setup. At Summit on both Shenandoah and Main I tried 5/5 all around like the supplemental suggested, I ended up going 4 front and 3 rear which ended up working better. Now that you have a few things changed I would leave it for a while.

 

[darreng505]

I have different dampers but generally, tighter damp settings means less traction (when compared to the opposite end of the car).
I found, with my dampers at least, I had to go softer on the front than the rear. But it all depends on the entire suspension and tires. So every car is different.

But my tip is that if you feel the front pushing, dial the damping back regardless if its less than the rear.

 

[Splatter]

Had another track day this weekend (sorry still no working video). I followed your advice and left the fronts on 4 and rears on three. Running with 275/35-19 front and stock rear. The cars was easier to handle with nice rotation on late braking into the corners, I guess with these sizes I have almost migrated to a square tire setup!! My biggest failing was in my braking. This event was at another track very similer to the one shown in the thread. After 10 min, at the end of the straight I over heated the brakes again and the peddle went right to the floor, we only get to 175 km/hour. But it left me with brake shy which in turn makes things worse. This is with brake ducts, PFZ pads and ATE blue.

Ordering Castrol SRF and will practice hard late braking for a shorter period, but having the pedal go slack has affected my confidence in braking quiet a bit.:bash: Would going to a DBA 5000 disc help much? or better wait till the stock discs wear out before changing?

Though long and hard about tires, I the end I think I will go with Dunlop DIrezza ZII in 275/35-19, probably on 19x9.5 Drift wheels. Wanted to go with 18 inch but seen a lot of cars with flats at the track lately and wanted to keep just one rim size so I would have spares. Running square would I have to leave the rear shock setting even softer or better to loosen the rear sway bar?

Still want to be able to drive to the track and the roads are not good! But I did get invited to a racing team so now I have at least one event a month. My time at this track was 58.7, a team mates modified 550hp Camaro SS was 56.6 and a ZL1 was 55.5. The winner was a highly modified Evo with a semipro driver at 54.3. Still got a long way to go I guess.... No GT-R present thank god!!

 

[twistedneck]

This new cooling kit should help with your brake overheating issues. The car is not too heavy for the size of the rotor, are you removing the center caps from your wheels? that seems very important for air flow based on what the Vorshlag guys said in another thread.

Brake duct kit coming.

Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build - Page 25 - Vorshlag Motorsports Forum

"Our previous set of backing plates (our first set we made about 2 years ago) were as bad as most out there, having had the cooling hose pointed mostly at the rotor face. The new ducts our guys built have the inlet moved inboard, to blow air inside the rotor's friction ring and at the hub. This lets the vanes of the rotor pull the air through the inside of the rotor and out, and also cools the front hubs. Our plates have the correct tubing size to fit inside a 3" brake duct hose without having to remove the reinforcing metal ring winding in the brake duct hose, unlike all of the other brake cooling kits we have installed before (including the Ford Racing kit). "

 

[pufferfish]

This new cooling kit should help with your brake overheating issues. The car is not too heavy for the size of the rotor, are you removing the center caps from your wheels? that seems very important for air flow based on what the Vorshlag guys said in another thread.

Brake duct kit coming.

Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build - Page 25 - Vorshlag Motorsports Forum

"Our previous set of backing plates (our first set we made about 2 years ago) were as bad as most out there, having had the cooling hose pointed mostly at the rotor face. The new ducts our guys built have the inlet moved inboard, to blow air inside the rotor's friction ring and at the hub. This lets the vanes of the rotor pull the air through the inside of the rotor and out, and also cools the front hubs. Our plates have the correct tubing size to fit inside a 3" brake duct hose without having to remove the reinforcing metal ring winding in the brake duct hose, unlike all of the other brake cooling kits we have installed before (including the Ford Racing kit). "

Well, shit, I could have saved vorshlag the trouble as I have had this design for over a year in the Blowfish Racing Brake Cooling Kits! It was obvious to me that the air flow needed to be directed to the hat, not the rotor face. I run ATE and relatively tame carbotech xp12 up front (on street tires) and can repeatedly go from 140mph to 50mph starting at the 4. More aggressive xp24's to match my new slicks will undoubtedly allow me to wait til 3 to brake.

 

[twistedneck]

Nice Pufferfish! your kit is very well priced too.. competition obviously a good thing.

Results for Brakes:Brake Cooling Kits

Well, shit, I could have saved vorshlag the trouble as I have had this design for over a year in the Blowfish Racing Brake Cooling Kits! It was obvious to me that the air flow needed to be directed to the hat, not the rotor face. I run ATE and relatively tame carbotech xp12 up front (on street tires) and can repeatedly go from 140mph to 50mph starting at the 4. More aggressive xp24's to match my new slicks will undoubtedly allow me to wait til 3 to brake.

 

[Splatter]

Quick update. With the Pagid RS 29/56 pads and the Dunlop Direzza II tires I got my time down to 50.6 from 51.7. Brakes worked great cold or hot.

I left a video on youtube, any pointers are very welcome.
CMA Open Track Sept 2013, Boss 302 time trail video - YouTube

 

[86Fbody]

Quick update. With the Pagid RS 29/56 pads and the Dunlop Direzza II tires I got my time down to 50.6 from 51.7. Brakes worked great cold or hot.

I left a video on youtube, any pointers are very welcome.
CMA Open Track Sept 2013, Boss 302 time trail video - YouTube

How are you positioning the wheel when entering a corner? Are you setting your angle on entry. You should set your wheel position and then let it out as you exit the corner. Also it looks like you're not pushing out to the gator backs so you should be able to push a little harder through the corners and track out the the very edge.

 

[Grant808]

^Agreed. Looks like you need to track out more. It's hard to tell how much your throttle input and braking can be improved with a top mounted camera. I can hardly hear the engine in the video.

Looks like you're getting more comfortable with the track since you started. Push a little harder into the corners next time you go.

 

[Splatter]

Yup, I think I can push harder, but this was my first day out with the Dunlop Direzzas. I guess I was a little conservative. I will post a few more videos, What would be your suggestion for camara view on this track? Right door??

 

[86Fbody]

Inside the car would be best to see at least your hands. I have put mine on the rear windshield on the inside with a few extensions so it isn't terribly far away.

 

[Grant808]

Inside the car would be best to see at least your hands. I have put mine on the rear windshield on the inside with a few extensions so it isn't terribly far away.

This, or on your helmet to see the hands. Or get a second camera or use a phone to get the view of yourself from the windshield.

I can also tell most of what's going on if it's dash or windshield mounted inside...so long as I can hear the engine and see the pitch, dive and rate the car is turning.

 

[Splatter]

Ok, thanks again. I will post one with hands etc after my next event at the end of the month.

 

[Splatter]

Well it took me 14 months and a modest :lol: amount of cash to finally get to the stock GTRs time of 47.2. As many people have told me it must be 50% driver time and 50% car mods. The biggest mod...you guessed it! tires. Well now the GTR fellow got himself a brand new GTR with the 800 hp schwitzer kit and Hoosiers. so his time dropped to 41.xx. Thats how it goes, not to mention, he improved his driving as well.

When you start out its always easy to think a mod will make you faster and its difficult to accept that you, the driver are the main reason you cant go faster. Take the tip everyone told me!!! Track time!!

Just in case, this is the list of mods made to the car.

MM camber plates, Pagid RS29/56 pads, Kooks header with catted xpipe, DBA 4000 fronts, rears Stoptech slotted, Castrol SRF, FFRP brake ducts, SVE Drifts 18x10, Nitto NT555 R extreme 305/35-18 square, -2.4 camber, 0.05 toe out, P springs, Tranny duct. BMR adjustable Panhard, Relocation brackets and LCA. KN air filter, Whiteline tranny bushing, Blowfish racing Shifter fix with MGW

 

[darreng505]

See? That didn't take long.
Well done.

 

[Grant808]

Proof is in the times, but i could already see the improvement in your more recent videos!

 

[86Fbody]

Well it took me 14 months and a modest :lol: amount of cash to finally get to the stock GTRs time of 47.2. As many people have told me it must be 50% driver time and 50% car mods. The biggest mod...you guessed it! tires. Well now the GTR fellow got himself a brand new GTR with the 800 hp schwitzer kit and Hoosiers. so his time dropped to 41.xx. Thats how it goes, not to mention, he improved his driving as well.

When you start out its always easy to think a mod will make you faster and its difficult to accept that you, the driver are the main reason you cant go faster. Take the tip everyone told me!!! Track time!!

Just in case, this is the list of mods made to the car.

MM camber plates, Pagid RS29/56 pads, Kooks header with catted xpipe, DBA 4000 fronts, rears Stoptech slotted, Castrol SRF, FFRP brake ducts, SVE Drifts 18x10, Nitto NT555 R extreme 305/35-18 square, -2.4 camber, 0.05 toe out, P springs, Tranny duct. BMR adjustable Panhard, Relocation brackets and LCA. KN air filter, Whiteline tranny bushing, Blowfish racing Shifter fix with MGW

As long as you didn't end up putting 50k into your car you have made out better than the GTR.