How to catch a GTR, need advice on which way to go

[Splatter]

Hi, need some advice on the most cost effective way to catch up to the top of the food chain on the small tracks we have in Chile.

My track times are 4.5 seconds down on the fastest street legal cars, Nissan GTRs and 911 turbos (2012). They get 47.2 second laps and my best timed lap too date is 51.7 sec.

I was wondering where to start on my mission to get at least close to the GTRs.

To start I have braided break lines and ATE fluid with Brake cooler kit on the way as well as a camber kit about to arrive, and planning on a set of DBA 4000 slotted discs all the way around with Ferodo DS2500. Engine is stock so far. I have stock sized Bridgestone S04 and am thinking to go to a set of BFG Rivals on 18x10 or a set of 265/35-19 and 285/35-19 with stock wheels and Michelin super sports. Little worried that the Rivals will be a little too snappy for my level and send me off to the wall. ...(again...)

To catch the faster cars would I be better of spending money on the complete suspension redo like the one Kenny Brown has, the AG4.0?? or just start with tires/springs and a tune??

With the suspension I have now, I cant see that adding much hp will do me any good as I have a little trouble keeping the rear end under control when chasing the faster M3s and Cayman Rs through the twisty bits.

The end idea would be a streetable car that can go at least close behind a GTR.
Any suggestions would be very welcome, so far this forum has given me lots of good advice that I have tried to follow!!

 

[Grant808]

Get another GTR

Start with better tires...R6s or takeoff slicks 295 or bigger all the way around.

Learn to brake late. I'm not familiar with those Ferodos, but did you get the cooling ducts on yet?

Suspension work might help you some, but I'm sure working on your driving would help more. Do you have some video of your runs, if you are open to driving critique?

 

[isrboss]

Honestly OP, you will need to have deep pockets, and a ton of seat time at given track vs the others being new to given track. We can never match them apples to apples(driver,race tires, setup) in the corners. You would need the perfect suspension setup, crazy diet, and a lot of horsepower. Seriously, Grant hit it right off the bat, buy a GTR. That will be the cheaper route, and after you are close to them in the Mustang, the car will not be a streetable car anymore.

The free mod and what I would strongly suggest is the driver mod. The biggest difference is the driver. How far to the limit are you willing to go? Some go out to drive on track, and have that experience, so you'll pass them. Others are straight out of a Rolex Prototype race car out there. I don't care if these guy's are driving in a S2000, good luck at catching them.

 

[KBBoss302]

Twin Turbo kit and Drag Radials - blow past him on the front straight then hold him up through all the corners. Problem solved.

 

[Splatter]

I am sure you guys are right! working on the thing between the driver seat and wheel is probably the best way to go. I will get a video together and would be delighted to have input!! I know I am a rookie so no harm. I will post my track info as well.

At the track there was a automatic 2011 (with some kind of shift kit) 5.0 gt with a roush blower and dyno sheet with 700 rwhp. He got a 53 sec lap, then went out and got a 50.5 lap but his brakes went after three laps. But as you say its the driver, a Lancia Integral with 250hp also got 50 sec. The blown mustang did well in the short straight but was holding up traffic on the curves.

I will rephrase..... Would like to get closer to the GTR times, I like the soul of the Boss, makes me smile every time she starts up.

 

[Grant808]

A blown mustang would be a waste on such a short course!

Do you have a course map to show us too?

One of the best learning tools for me is to have a car/driver that is just a bit faster than me to help me with a lead-follow session so I can learn from his line and braking points. Even 2 or 3 laps can help shave seconds.

I'm not a 'gifted' driver...so I study my videos and interval timing to see where I can make improvements. And take any advice, help, and critique that I can.

 

[Splatter]

Hi Again, the cooling kit is on its way, hope to have it installed in a few weeks.

I posted some videos
Stuck behind 911 chased by AMG C63 - YouTube
and
CMA drivers course at Vizcachas track in Santiago Chile - YouTube

Would be grateful for any comments and pointers, My torque video has speed and rpm etc but it does not come out in youtube.

I know I have lots to learn so have at it!


http://youtu.be/YFeLrgSzxRI

 

[Splatter]

Here is a quick layout of our track and the data of my torque app.

Sorry that last post of mine went haywire. DELETED

 

[Grant808]

So you were running the outer loop here?

 

[Splatter]

Yes thats its!

 

[BUCKET]

I've got a friend that is an instructor at roebling road here in GA. We both have a friend that has a gtr making almost 800awhp. He has driven that thing around roebling and said its one of the most insane, well behaved and flat out cars he has taken around there. Where normal breaking and trottle do not apply in that situation. It's super fast around the track.

You gonna have to dig deep and push the boss to its edge. A gtr can make an ok driver look good. On rolls, me and the gtr are about even. And that's me running 862 rwhp in my boss. But he destroys me on corners and launching

 

[Splatter]

Ok Ok, I will set my sites a little lower then, A track friend has a Cayman R with paddles etc that got 50.45. Maybe thats a more attainable target.

I already signed up for more instructor time. The two GTRs that ran at the last event had close times of 47.2 and 47.7, I think they are pretty much stock. A new 911 turbo sounding very unstock got 48,2. so did lotus running on barely DOT R tires.

 

[darreng505]

Start with better tires...R6s or takeoff slicks 295 or bigger all the way around.

This.

And if you go this route, you should do the following to compensate for the added grip.

1) Turn off traction control and stabilitrac. With bigger r-comps or slicks up front it will interfere badly.
2) Bigger front sway bar (or adjusted tighter)
3) Re-balance the damping all around. With high grip tires, this generally means reducing the damping.

 

[86Fbody]

Lighten the car as much you can, a Boss is close to a GT-R in power to weight, and better tires would help a bunch.

 

[Jabooh1]

Isn't the GTR all wheel drive? It will grip better in the corner and have better acceleration after the apex right? Tires is probably the single buggest area. That course doesn't have a lot of straights which is where you could out gun them.

 

[Splatter]

GT-Rs are about US$140,000, prices in Chile can be rather expensive, Even my Boss cost about 25% more then the US due to customs and duties etc. Lucky I got mine at sticker price!! So its still less then half the price then a GT-R

To get a sticky tire do you have to go to a 18 in wheel? I saw R888, Hoosiers slicks etc in 19 in. Would a set of Laguna seca 19x10 wheels fit in the front? It seems that having two sets in 19 inchs would be more useful in emergencies/flats etc.

I got some advice from a well known local race car builder. He suggested swapping the rear to get some thing like a 4.80 instead of the 3.73. Because of the small tight tracks we have down here. I have seen gears for a 4.10 rear end, any data on a higher gear?

 

[Grant808]

Forget the gear. If you run a shorter diameter tire on 18x10 or 18x11 wheels, you'll drop the effective gear ratio anyway. Stock rear is 26.9" tall and R6 295/30-18s are only 25.3" tall.

Go with lighter wheels like the Vorshlag D-force or Forgestars. I have Forgestar F14s (~20 lb. each) and SVE drifts (~24 lb. ea.) the LS 19x10s are over 30 lb!

I watched the videos, and I've got to go back to my advice of working on the driver too. Looks like you can brake way later and get on the gas earlier on most of the turns. Doesn't look like there's anything really tricky about the lines of the track on the outer loop. Before the main straight, it sounds like you should be one more gear lower and need to work a bit on the late apex line. Downshift a little closer to the turn, and it sounds like you are often not revving enough coming into turn 1.

Pretty sure you have a couple of seconds to gain just from driving.

 

[JohnW#88]

Pretty sure you have a couple of seconds to gain just from driving.

This. Professional coaching. It's worth the coin.
Track time
Lots of it.

Not sure how far down the rabbit hole you wish to go... So here's my list if catching the Nissan is your ultimate goal.

Weight. You and the car. Get in shape if you're not already.
Retire the car from the street.
Safety equip. Cage, seat, harness, firesystem, belts nets, etc.
Hoosiers. R888s are junk.
Carbotech or hawk pads with those DBAs.
Suspension. All the known BOSS bolt ons.
Call Moton or AST and give them your CC number.

Then see track time again with proper setup.

All this and get within a couple tenths each and every lap. See how far the gap is then and then think about power.


Good luck.

 

[Splatter]

Thanks a million guys, very much appreciated. I am off to the track this saturday to take a performance drivers class again. I am sure your right that the biggest hold up is me!! Will try the late braking and lower gear on the corner before the straight. My brake coolers are in the mail, cost more to ship them then to buy them!! The dark video behind the Porsche was with Hawk hps pads and 4 event old ATE brake fluid. Pedal was squishy and made me fear a Out of Track experience! I liked the original pads better. New ATE fluid is in.

Would like to be able to drive to the track, hoping a set of Rivals would fit the bill intead of the Hoosiers, but have seen very little about them so far. I would be delighted to get to 50 sec on my track some time in the future.

Once again thanks for all the positive input!

 

[Boss949]

great advice from JohnW#88.

My daughter has a GRT (her husband has a CTS V with 820 RWHP). I've driven the GTR and it's an awesome car and with AWD it's almost impossible to beat on a road course without considering making your car a full race car.

I get to drive the Nissan all the time, but I prefer my Boss. I like the muscle car feel over the Godzilla. My car will never beat a GTR, and it doesn't matter.