Favorite Shotgun Load for Home Defense?

[YJSONLY]

I like to grab my .50 to protect my house. That way the police can carry two body halves out the house!

In all seriousness tho. I keep a .40 by my bed and shotty with buckshot too. It's a 20 gauge shorty pistol grip.
Wife and I have a talked about what ifs and what not if I am gone and if I am home.
Main thing get to get stay put and if someone comes thru that door.....

Also my family knows not to come in my house after dark.

 

[blackfang]

Why would it be a problem staggering unless you are not taking accurate shots? Those who stagger have stated whether it matters in their current environment including me, where I can fire off any round and not have to worry about my surroundings. You fire any round out of a shotgun and if you are taking well aimed shots then your target is not going to be having a good day. If you miss center mass and hit the guy in the leg or arm with a slug, he's still not going anywhere or he is running out off your property with a severely mangled extremity.

I live at work and have 2 acres of property full of cars to protect so slugs are precisely what I need if I grab that over my AR or pistol that are both next to my bed. I've had a number of run-ins here with thieves and burglars so this is something I'm always going over and planning.

Obviously, if you have family home you are going to have to have a much more intricate plan then just your shotgun load, but those of us who don't have to worry about it can load any way you wish.

But if you are not trained enough to where you can go on the offensive in your own home and will likely be faced with going condition black in panic mode then you need to have a lot more contingency in place. You need to have a plan in place that allows you to barricade yourself while your kids have a predetermined place to hide that is de-conflicted with the target zone you will be firing from in your barricade. Much much more important than if you are going to use slug or buckshot.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one..ha ha

There is no reason to stagger different loads in the tube, even more so for an average person who may not have any training. It's especially critical when you are in your home with multiple family members. That could is a recipe for disaster. Pick 1 load to do the job and put it in the tube.

Do you stagger rounds in your handguns between fmj or jhp?

Personally I would never go on the offensive in my own home even with the training I have. Much easier worrying about my family that is in the room with me barricaded in while the wife is on the phone. However, I understand some people may not be afforded that luxury.

 

[SVT-BansheeMan]

It seems a lot of people in here feel they will not miss a lot or any. When I see home entries stories/videos, it's 2-4 or more bad guys.

 

[MarcSpaz]

It seems a lot of people in here feel they will not miss a lot or any. When I see home entries stories/videos, it's 2-4 or more bad guys.

You would be shocked how many people just freeze up... never mind land every shot while under fire.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Yes, you are going to miss but you should at least be missing in the general direction of the threat. If you are shooting way off then you need to train more. No one is saying everyone is going to be 100% with their accuracy, but there is no reason to believe that you can't take total control of the situation and put every round where you intend to; that is completely possible. If you want to stay in a defensive posture then that is fine, but with what I know and have trained to I am going to go on the offensive and catch the intruder when they least expect it. I do this because I know they are not prepared as thieves go for easy targets with no resistence. They aren't expecting someone to be coming at them, especially one showing violence of action. Im not going to discourage anyone else who wishes to do the same either. I've been in some shot with friends who have a sliver of the training I do and they kept their cool just fine and handled themselves just as I had trained them.

 

[MarcSpaz]

I don't know where you're training, but in the last 20 years, with rare exception, most civilians I've seen can't hit an edge timed man-sized target at 30 feet with 3 seconds of exposure in a well lit static range with no distractions. Now, make it at night, Oscar Mike and no idea where the target will be or when... I'm not confident it's gonna happen.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

I don't know where you're training, but in the last 20 years, with rare exception, most civilians I've seen can't hit an edge timed man-sized target at 30 feet with 3 seconds of exposure in a well lit static range with no distractions. Now, make it at night, Oscar Mike and no idea where the target will be or when... I'm not confident it's gonna happen.

Marine Corps CQB. I rated the CQB instructor qualification but never taught at the schoolhouse. I've taught over 200 Marines though starting from the basics to advanced tactics in close quarters battle. Don't want this to be a pissing match but it's the easiest way for you to know where I'm coming from at least. I probably have a different approach and outlook than most on this issue based off of different things we've done and experimented with as I did all of this for over 3.5 years straight as a job. I can take someone from knowing little to nothing to being quite proficient in a small amount of time.

 

[MarcSpaz]

First... thank you for your service. Sounds like you have some outstanding experience.

Second, I'm not going to give you my creds, mostly because it's not relevant. At least not any more so than any other man's observations.

Third... your experience is totally skewed. You dealt with people who's job was/is to hit the target. You are talking about maybe 700K people in a nation of 310+ million. What's that... 0.2%? The average citizen has ZERO training. A very low amount have some hunting experience, and on the high side, they may have spent 3 or 4 hours every year or two at a static range with their handgun.

Joe Q Homeowner isn't gonna respond like a trained combatant.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Well I guess I'm not talking for those newer shooters then, but I would say don't count out so many people because you would be surprised. And don't think the guys that I was training came in as weapons experts because many started off as basically beginners that I wasn't even sure should be handling a weapon. I have some friends though who have never served in the military but attended some schools or have just listened to experts and applied what they learned when they went to the range, and were driven to learn. And some of those guys could out shoot me all day long, but when it came to tactics they obviously could never get that training outside of the military, at least not for an affordable price.

What I'm saying is that the tactics are more applicable in every day life than you think and when I went to the fleet I argued quite a bit with higher to allow us to apply these tactics more widely because it raises your understanding and situational awareness across the board. I was arguing to train Marines who had very very little experience in clearing tactics, and quite honestly, the tactics they had were bad to begin with. For you guys that have a good amount of knowledge on weapons and weapons handling you are perfect candidates to learn this type of stuff. The only problem is that it took us 2 months straight of shooting every day and clearing houses every day to gain that MOS.

I have passed these tactics onto my friends by basically just telling them. And they aren't just strictly military tactics, they are more on the lines of SWAT tactics as that is the primary job. You are a hostage rescue and recapture of nuclear weapons and material team as your primary role.

The most valuable thing to take out of all of it is the ability to train your sub-conscious. It's mind blowing when you finally get to that point where your sub-conscious acts for you under a stressful situation. You may be familiar with what I'm referring to if you have a background in this, but hopefully people who don't know will look into it and learn more about it because it is pretty much the secret to winning battles, big and small, and why our military is as good as it is. It comes with repetition and eventually will become second nature. Well trained MMA fighters or boxers will be familiar with this also as they directly correlate to each other. When your sub-conscious takes over you will make shots that your conscious mind will vaguely remember doing, and it will blow your mind. Regardless of your level of training or whether you are military or not anyone can attain this through practice, and what it will do will give you the upper hand over basically anyone who comes up against you, especially a home intruder or the person robbing the store you are shopping in.

A prime example of this for me was when in a training scenario where we were using 9mm sim rounds while clearing an old middle school. My teammate and I were clearing the old music room which was a very large rectangular room. All the lights were out in the school so we had our tac-lights as the only lighting. We made entry into this rectangular room from the door in the very corner of the far end and I was using my M9 instead of my M4, probably because of a jam. I button-hooked right down the long wall and my 2 man went straight through the door down the back wall so we formed an L shape as we cleared the room. I remember looking forward in my sector of fire and there was just a piano on the other far end I was moving towards. The threat was behind it and all I could see was this piano and that corner of the room, I could not see the side of the room opposite as it was all dark. As I suppressed the threat behind the piano and he was firing back I started seeing rounds pass through my tac-light. This is where my sub-conscious kicked in. I impulsively turned left for just a split second and fired off a pair in the direction of the rounds coming across to suppress it. It was in my partners sector of fire but knowing the tactics I know he had stopped along the back so I knew he was not over there to where I could potentially go blue on blue with him. I took the two shots and went back to my sector, finishing off the threat behind the piano. From my recollection I saw nothing when I took those shots to the left out of my sector. But when we did our dead-checks after the room was clear, my two man called me over to where the commander of our school was sitting against the wall playing dead with a perfect pair of shots dead center in his chest. He moaned a little bit because he didn't have body armor on and those 9mm hurt like a bitch so he was a little pissed and yelled at me because he said he was an occupant and unarmed, but when we searched him he had an M9 on him. I used the cover of darkness to get out of there without him seeing who I was but I knew he had taken the shots and what I did was basically perfect, but it was all my sub-conscious doing the real work.

All of that may seem unusable or unattainable in real life scenarios but in reality that is exactly what is going to happen in some capacity. Your sub-conscious controls your fight or flight responses so with enough training, mentally and physically, it will suppress your flight response and begin to control your fight response in reaction to your training. The real training needs to start in your mind where you have to wrap your head around certain scenarios you may run into and then begin to train repeatedly to those scenarios.

Sorry for the long post but honestly this is the most valuable information anyone that is even just getting started firearms and home defense can pick up on. And from what I have seen you won't learn this stuff in most schools as it is not something they can fit into their schedules. If I ever start a school this will be a primary cornerstone of the training.

 

[351stang]

No, unfortunately. All 3 got away.

The worst part of the whole experience was that fact that a city cop was parked in a patrol car at the corner just 2 houses away and that coward didn't do shit. He heard the gun fire. He saw me chase the kids out of the house with a rifle in my hands and the bum just sat there. He was more than happy to take the report though.

When people ask me why I carry a gun, I reply, "because a cop is too heavy ".

I'm fortunate to have never experienced the above and have never had to even unholster.

 

[SID297]

First... thank you for your service. Sounds like you have some outstanding experience.

Second, I'm not going to give you my creds, mostly because it's not relevant. At least not any more so than any other man's observations.

Third... your experience is totally skewed. You dealt with people who's job was/is to hit the target. You are talking about maybe 700K people in a nation of 310+ million. What's that... 0.2%? The average citizen has ZERO training. A very low amount have some hunting experience, and on the high side, they may have spent 3 or 4 hours every year or two at a static range with their handgun.

Joe Q Homeowner isn't gonna respond like a trained combatant.

The reasons you mentioned is why I like a shotgun to defend a fixed position in the house. 15-18 feet across a room #4 buck is probably going to spread out 4-7 inches depending on the gun. Pointed at a person in a 36 inch doorway you stand a much better chance of hitting your target. Even a less than perfect hit (you get 41 .24 caliber pellets in 3-inch #4 buck) will most likely stop a threat. I'll take every advantage I can get in a nightmare scenario like that.

 

[CobraBob]

Jon, thanks for your long post. It was especially interesting to me because I've only had my pistol carry license for 11 months. And in those 11 months I've been to the range a minimum of once a month. I've eagerly consumed any and all info on tactical responses, and although I haven't yet taken any tactical courses, I retain a lot of the info read/provided. I constantly play out scenarios in my head to minimally prepare me should the occasion arise to respond to a threat. So I completely understand your position and support it 100%. If you were my local buddy, trust me, I'd be one of those students who work hard to excel.

That said, I've now got my daughter interested and she is in the process of getting her own permit. I've already taken her to the range and given her some good basic training that I got from a friend of mine who is a local cop. I was talking to her after our training session and she is very interested in signing up for a tactical training class done one town over called King 33. I really like that they encourage active training for licensed gun owners which have the goal to not only prepare us for response situations, but make us more responsible gun owners. Their site includes a live fire shoot house, Troysgate, simulation house, and classroom training. Their staff goal is to help us learn by way of instructing, teaching, mentoring, coaching, and guiding us each time we train with them. Their instructors come from all walks of life - public, security, military and law enforcement.

Thanks again for your comments and views.

 

[Steve@TF]

120lb cane corso and a german shepard followed by

40 h&k hers
12g Remington security with birdshot. his
(she's the expert lol)

i prefer birdshot for reasons mentioned above. im going going to firing at someone across the property. it would be within the same room and i have kids that could be anywhere. and i dont want to tear my house apart either lol. unless youre wearing body armor birdshot is going to ruin your day or at least make you high tail it in the other direction.

 

[Steve@TF]

This is typically the best advice in most cases. If its an option, hunker down and hold a room... call 911 and let them know you have a home intruder... you are armed and where in the house you are.

That wasn't an option for me. Three young guys kicked in m y front door in the middle of the day and I had 5 other family members scattered around the house that I needed to protect.

damn thats crazy. where do you live? although that can happen anywhere.

 

[Steve@TF]

120lb cane corso and a german shepard followed by

40 h&k hers
12g Remington security with birdshot. his
(she's the expert lol)

i prefer birdshot for reasons mentioned above. im going going to firing at someone across the property. it would be within the same room and i have kids that could be anywhere. and i dont want to tear my house apart either lol. unless youre wearing body armor birdshot is going to ruin your day or at least make you high tail it in the other direction.

meant to say "not going to be firing at someone across my property"

still cant edit my posts ftmfl

 

[MarcSpaz]

damn thats crazy. where do you live? although that can happen anywhere.

1st the time, I was living in North Providence, Rhode Island.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Jon, thanks for your long post. It was especially interesting to me because I've only had my pistol carry license for 11 months. And in those 11 months I've been to the range a minimum of once a month. I've eagerly consumed any and all info on tactical responses, and although I haven't yet taken any tactical courses, I retain a lot of the info read/provided. I constantly play out scenarios in my head to minimally prepare me should the occasion arise to respond to a threat. So I completely understand your position and support it 100%. If you were my local buddy, trust me, I'd be one of those students who work hard to excel.

That said, I've now got my daughter interested and she is in the process of getting her own permit. I've already taken her to the range and given her some good basic training that I got from a friend of mine who is a local cop. I was talking to her after our training session and she is very interested in signing up for a tactical training class done one town over called King 33. I really like that they encourage active training for licensed gun owners which have the goal to not only prepare us for response situations, but make us more responsible gun owners. Their site includes a live fire shoot house, Troysgate, simulation house, and classroom training. Their staff goal is to help us learn by way of instructing, teaching, mentoring, coaching, and guiding us each time we train with them. Their instructors come from all walks of life - public, security, military and law enforcement.

Thanks again for your comments and views.

No problem Bob! It was one of my passions being able to teach this stuff so I enjoy being able to give input on these discussions. I actually love teaching it more than actually shooting personally. You and your daughter are obviously on the right track being that you are still relatively new, but trust me that you can become very proficient in a short amount of time as long as you keep practicing and taking courses that will really challenge you and push your limits. I only started shooting about a year before I joined and two years later I learned most of what I know now. Some of my close friends who were never military are into competition shooting in the various leagues as are a lot of members here, and honestly I would say they are faster and more accurate than I am by far which to me is perfect training for repetition and getting to that point where your muscle memory is there and shooting becomes second nature which in turn means your sub-conscious will act on this muscle memory. The only thing it lacks is the true tactical portion imo which is the hardest part to get as a civilian. But there are a lot of schools that are offering this now like you mentioned with the shoot house.

The first time in a shoot house is probably the most nerve-racking thing you will ever experience. You'll go in there dry, nervous, you'll move slow throughout, but still come out completely drenched in sweat because of the amount of stress. You also might not remember much of what you did that first time through, but as you go through the house more and more you'll begin to wrap your head around the situation and you'll begin to gain control of the chemical cocktail (see 5 psychological effects - tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, electro-dermal stimulation, time-space compression, mental track) that are the enemy of anyone in a violent confrontation. In CQB school they make it even more stressful in that there are safety violations that can get you dropped from the school, which the first time I went through had an 80% attrition rate! You are clearing by yourself with just 3 instructors as your teammates for the testing, but you are calling all the shots in there as the student and then there are 3-4 other instructors in there with you watching your every move as they grade you. What makes you feel even worse is that you are struggling to hit the right spots on a full size target, yet the instructors are shooting at small chem-lights attached to the wall right next to your target... and they are hitting them with ease lol. It's actually one of the coolest things you will ever do though and you'll enjoy every minute of it.

So I would definitely recommend taking a course that can offer this, but always be weary of how they conduct safety in the course because it is definitely dangerous and I have almost been shot in the back of the head by another student who shot out of his sector of fire. The instructors have to be on point and in control for everyone's safety at all times, which there's a lot of wannabe schools out there that are way to relaxed on safety from what I have seen.

Another long post, sorry! But like I said, I enjoy this stuff so if you have any questions feel free to ask!