Detrimental Effects of High Boost (Upper/Lower Combo) on the Factory Eaton.

[Jay03GT]

Originally posted by ITSTOCK
HAHA, well funny short story, clutch is gone as of tonight, could'nt get it into 3rd or 4th, than the clutch was just completely slipping :cuss: The difference between OUR TIMES is that I WAS NOT ON SPRAY, YOU WERE. That's a pretty big difference, huh :shrug: . Oh well, it's pointless about that anymore, but my clutch is gone.

http://home.comcast.net/~chalupa28/BYEBYECLUTCHweb.wmv

And about making an ass out of myself, people took sambandits personal experience. His was that he got HEATSOAK. In my case, I DID NOT GET HEATSOAK. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that??? It depends on the DA a lot, air temp, density, all kinds of variables. He was effected by heatsoak, while I am NOT.

You're contradicting yourself again. Yes, I was spraying a 50 shot.
I'm also running in 90+ degree temps with humidity well up there as well. Now, what were you saying about heatsoak? My car has run 12.0, on F1's, no bottle, in 90+ temps. Is that so far out of line? And on Modularfords you are claiming 600RWHP and you run 11.6's?? I'm running the same ET as you are, in far worse conditions, on F1's, with 100RWHP less than you are claiming. Now you tell me who can't drive!:lol:

 

[hj16]

Originally posted by ITSTOCK
I already posted, with a 2.76 and 2# lower, I DID NOT GET HEATSOAK. I am not just making this up. I will be going to the track, and if at all possible, I will try to hot lap. I wilL PUT MONEY that it does NOT effect it, AS I HAVE ALREADY DONE SO, WITH NO HEATSOAK.

Bullshit, I have a ported Blower with a 2.90 and even I get heatsoak. Granted it takes much much longer than cars running more boost... but I get heatsoak... EVERY supercharged car gets heaksoak at some point or another... its just about how long you can hold it off for.

 

[ITSTOCK]

hj16, I SPECIFICALLY stated that 1/4 MILE RUNS, I DID NOT GET ENOUGH HEAT SOAK TO EFFECT TIMES.

jay03GT, I have 600rwhp ON THE BOTTLE. OFF the bottle, I HAVE UNDER 500. Now YOU tell me who can't READ!:bash:

jay03gt, on the ls1 board, you stated that you ran 11's at 118, ON THE BOTTLE. I said that I ran 11.6's at 120 OFF THE BOTTLE. Just read and things will get a little bit clearer!

 

[hj16]

Originally posted by ITSTOCK
BUT, I have YET to see an eaton fail.

ah, the ignorance of youth

 

[ITSTOCK]

I have now heard of a handfull of people who's eaton's have failed. BUT, nobody knows what caused the failure for sure. AGAIN, I HAVE NOW HEARD OF A HANDFULL OF PEOPLE WHO'S EATONS HAVE FAILED. I didn't before, now I have.

 

[hj16]

Originally posted by ITSTOCK
hj16, I SPECIFICALLY stated that 1/4 MILE RUNS, I DID NOT GET ENOUGH HEAT SOAK TO EFFECT TIMES.

Ummm, did I say I was talking about a roadtrip or something? Cause I sure cant see where I typed something to make you think I wasnt talking about heatsoak at the track.

It took 3 consecutive runs in July (80 degrees) for my car to feel the effects of Heatsoak in both ET and MPH..... it took 5 consecutive runs in October (35 degrees) for my car to have the same effects.

Or better yet, over the course of 4 consecutive pulls on the dyno in June (95 degrees) my car lost over 15rwhp and 15rwtq.... no heatsoak my ass.:read:

 

[ITSTOCK]

My trap's tell different. Again, different area, DIFFERENT DA, DIFFERENT AIR, DIFFERENT EFFECTS ON THE CAR, LESS HEAT SOAK, I don't understand how I can make this any clearer????????????????

From my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I DID NOT SUFFER ANY LOSS IN TRAP (MPH) OR ET FROM RUNNING BACK TO BACK RUN'S, THE HEAT SOAK WAS NOT AS PRESENT.

I never said I don't believe it causes problems, I SAID THAT I DID NOT EXPERIENCE HEAT SOAK. Christ, are some of you really that hardheaded to get this???

I DID NOT GET HEAT SOAK.

I. I DID NOT GET HEAT SOAK.

I.

I.

Understand yet??????????????????????????

 

[Jay03GT]

Originally posted by ITSTOCK
hj16, I SPECIFICALLY stated that 1/4 MILE RUNS, I DID NOT GET ENOUGH HEAT SOAK TO EFFECT TIMES.

jay03GT, I have 600rwhp ON THE BOTTLE. OFF the bottle, I HAVE UNDER 500. Now YOU tell me who can't READ!:bash:

jay03gt, on the ls1 board, you stated that you ran 11's at 118, ON THE BOTTLE. I said that I ran 11.6's at 120 OFF THE BOTTLE. Just read and things will get a little bit clearer!

No, you never mentioned anything about a bottle. You also post under a different name, trying to hide? Now it seems pretty obvious to me, but if you are spraying a big shot then obviously you won't experience heat soak. So clarify yourself, instead of contradicting yourself. You making all thses passes on the spray? Or are you running in 40 degree weather? Funny how everyone else in the country gets heat soak but you don't.

 

[ITSTOCK]

What do you mean trying to hide??????? READ MY DAMN POST ON MODULAR FORDS, IT STATES THAT I MAKE AROUND 600RWHP ON SPRAY. READ READ READ. My 11.60's WERE OFF THE SPRAY. I do NOT understand HOW I am contradicting myself, just because some are so incompetent that they can't read EVERYTHING. I believe my 11.60's were in 50-60 degree weather (can't remember off the top of my head) with high humidity.

Go back and read modularfords and you will SEE/READ that I state ON SPRAY.

And about diff. screen names, all svt sites are ITSTOCK while my local racing site, ls1tech(although im banned LOL for disagreeing with a mod. and questioning his rwhp) and www.godragracing.com are 5.8litrels1eater (i used to own a 351 notch, and my brohter and parents both own LS1's so it was fitting), and on ls1.com they lost my 5.8litrels1eater app. thing, so I just used my old screen name, as well as my email, . So trying to hide you say?????????? I think not.

 

[ITSTOCK]

Originally posted by Jay03GT
No, you never mentioned anything about a bottle. You also post under a different name, trying to hide? Now it seems pretty obvious to me, but if you are spraying a big shot then obviously you won't experience heat soak. So clarify yourself, instead of contradicting yourself. You making all thses passes on the spray? Or are you running in 40 degree weather? Funny how everyone else in the country gets heat soak but you don't.

Here is a direct quote from modular fords, by myself......

Who has the best clutch deals out there?? I am around 600rwhp on spray, and my stock clutch, as of tonight, is DEAD . I'm looking to order one right now, so any one know who's got the best deals??

Eat your words, buddy. And here is the link so that you will realize the time it was posted, with NO editing.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18067

So what were you saying

 

[ITSTOCK]

Originally posted by Jay03GT
You're contradicting yourself again. Yes, I was spraying a 50 shot.
I'm also running in 90+ degree temps with humidity well up there as well. Now, what were you saying about heatsoak? My car has run 12.0, on F1's, no bottle, in 90+ temps. Is that so far out of line? And on Modularfords you are claiming 600RWHP and you run 11.6's?? I'm running the same ET as you are, in far worse conditions, on F1's, with 100RWHP less than you are claiming. Now you tell me who can't drive!:lol:

Just figured I would quote this one so you realize you were wrong again about the modular fords thing :loser:

 

[plan b]

ITSTOCK, There are bearings inside the blower housing that can fail if overspun. That is probably the case given Dom's description of the problem. It is quite possible that whoever reassembled the blower after the porting forgot to lube the bearings properly or the bearing/bearings were defective.

 

[ITSTOCK]

Plan b, I was thinking more along that lines of your idea (something doesn't seem right, but we don't know the full story either, i.e., how long with the upper/lower pulley). I just have a feeling that apten is at fault for this one (which is actually steigmeyer (sp?), who regaurdless, will be porting my blower.

Any RPM's more than stock is going to put stress on the eaton, that's a given. How much though? how much will spinning it 1500+rpms more with the upper/lower combo will it effect the eaton??? The truth is, we honestly don't know, and there aren't many cases (if any) that can be attributed directly to overspinning.

 

[BLWN03]

OK ITSTOCK....YOU>>>YOU>>YOU>>YOU>>YOU....have a freak of a car from ford..that has the superman shield on the motor which makes it impurvious to heatsoak...come on man...unless your car runs on Nitrogen, your motor after a pass gets just as heatsoaked as anyone else's... DA's being different or not...AIR FUELand SPARK cause heat...GET IT NOW....AIR+FUEL+SPARK=HEAT...Molecules that burn cause heat cause they EXPAND..the faster the blower spins the faster the METAL expand's which CAN>>>>CAN>>>CAN>>>cause a failure......You should have paid more attention in school bro..cause im no brainiac but i understand how cars work......

 

[primo]

He must have voted for Kerry since he displayed his flip flop ideology.

 

[plan b]

If I recall correctly, a 2.76 pulley alone is on the edge of overspinning the blower given the stock redline of 6500 engine rpm. If I can find the blower rpm chart I'll post it. An upper lower combo definately takes you over the edge. A larger crank pulley spins all the other pulleys faster.

 

[Jay03GT]

Originally posted by ITSTOCK
Here is a direct quote from modular fords, by myself......




Eat your words, buddy. And here is the link so that you will realize the time it was posted, with NO editing.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18067

So what were you saying

I wasn't referring to you post on Modular Fords, I was referring to your post on LS1.com. Are we going to do this over every forum on the internet?

Anyhow, I remember what it was like to be 19. I was never wrong either.:lol:

 

[Juiced46]

Originally posted by plan b
If I recall correctly, a 2.76 pulley alone is on the edge of overspinning the blower given the stock redline of 6500 engine rpm. If I can find the blower rpm chart I'll post it. An upper lower combo definately takes you over the edge. A larger crank pulley spins all the other pulleys faster.

http://outside.drobnak.com:4185/dave_car/blowerRPM2.xls

There is the chart.

A 2.76 is already over spinning the blower.

 

[CobraKindaGuy]

Originally posted by Dominick32
ITSTOCK
-------------------------------
Birthday March 11, 1985
Real Name Steve
Biography
Vehicle 03 Cobra
Location Horsham, PA
-----------------------------

So your a 19 year old kid who is an expert on the 03 cobra?
Thanks for all your knowledge.

And I see you are also from Horsham, PA.

To all SVT Performance members. We actually banned a member who was trolling and harassing members on my forum a few weeks ago with the same location and age: We traced his IP address to Horsham, PA. This could quite possibly be the same kid.

Sorry about the thread hijack guys but when someone answers my thread in a fashion that seems almost personal towards me I look deeper into the situation. I really think this is the same kid we banned. :bash:

Dom

I think I may have met this 19 year-old a-hole at a car show last summer near Horsham, PA. He started "loudly" making a scene that I should be easily be able to boost upto 21 lbs and that it would not cause a heat problem . I told him that it could not be SAFELY done without installing a much larger intercooler, probably in the passenger seat and not without changing the stock rear-end as well as a number of other engine pieces related to fuel, MAF etc. I told him the heat of the extreme boost would start melting down internals left & right.

He proceeded to tell me I didn't have a single clue about blowers and boost and that adding boost would not cause a heat increase...that they do it all the time at the track. I asked him if he ever once raced a car at the track to which he said no but that he goes there all the time. I then stated to him that perhaps then he should go out to the internet a do some research because HE apparently didn't know squat about cars.

His father was with him and rather weakly said to him that he needs to listen more when people are trying to explain things to him.....to which the kid promptly told his Dad that he (his Dad) didn't know anything either.

At that point I just told him to get the hell away from me and my car and come back when he isn't so dumb between the ears. To which he replied by flipping me the bird, walking away and saying I didn't have a clue about engines.

So this must be the same asshole that is dogging you.

 

[projekZERO]

No performance mod that produces more power lowers cylinder pressure, cylinder pressure is what drives your pistons up and down. Normally adding headers will decrese back pressure which will allow more exhaust to released and more air to replace this exhaust in the cylinder, which will create more cylinder pressure.

Not always true, relieving exhaust pressures ina FI vehicle can often result in less cyl pressure due to reduced heat in the combustion chambers. a trick tuners often use is to lean out the mixture to increase cyl pressures. personaly i dont liek the term backpressure as its missleading, as the pressurized exhaust gasses leave the combustion chamber they are shot out into the exhaust system, as they move down the exhaust system they leave an area of negative pressure behind it. as the gasses loose velosity they will actualy start to travel backward up the pipe to even the pressure in the pipe once again (like pushing the water to one side of the bath tub, it come back to equalize the pressure). if the exhaust valve doesnt close in time this "reversion" exhaust wave will re-enter the combustion chamber and delute the "new" mixture. with these "old" exhaust gasses come higher combustion chamber tempts and increased cyl pressure.

As far as heat, the reason it's so dangerous is because it causes hot spots inside the cylinder which can cause the fuel to self ignite causing spontaneous combustion

while we all know what u meant by this, but if my car ever spontaneously cumbusted i would be bailing the F$%K out!:burnout:

spontaneous cumbustion is when chemcial changes happen within a substance, the substance then combines with oxyen and another reaction happens (oxidation). the heat produced from the first internal chemical reacton and then the heat form oxidation causes the substance to ignite.

in cars the ignition is caused by external excessive heat not internal, the heat is either caused by a lean mixture, a hot spot in the combustion chamber maybe due to a carbon deposit getting superheated, or excessive cyl pressures.

The heat you are describing in the motor is due to the air/fuel though, NOT the IAT temps. It is NOT A CAUSE OF HEAT FROM THE BLOWER, IT IS DUE TO AIR/FUEL, ALONG WITH DIFFERENT VARIABLES THAT CHANGE HEAT IN A MOTOR.

the blower on our cars is still a compressor, dont confuse that simple fact. anytime u compress something it heats that object up. the more you compress the object, the more heated it becomes, the compressor becomes heated itself as a byproduct and it transfers this heat tho the object its compressing its a downward cycle.

as far as running lean goes, a lean mixture is easier to burn, which is why its easier to pre-ignite. it also burns quicker and hotter. this quicker burn means the exhaust gasses are expanding faster and resulting in more cyl pressures which in turn again, means higher temps (remember higher pressure means more heat) to demenstrate think of a torch, when u light it, you have the valve farely open, but in order to get it to its hottest flame u have to turn the gas way down right? well u are doing the same thing leaning out the mixture, same goes for internal combustion engines, the leaner the mixture the hotter the burn.

so thats why higher boost means more wear on your motor and blower itself and thats also why running lean is more wear and tear on your motor, and both combined is suicide.

here is a note your pistons are aluminum....aluminum can "start" to melt at temps as little as 550 degrees, ask anyone here with an egt what kind of exhaust temps they see.