Cops kill Tosh.0 Production Assistant

[SVT F15O]

Congrats bro......douchebag comment of the year. Are you friggin serious?

Seriously.

 

[NinjaBum]

+1

LEO's who compare themselves to soldiers make me lol.

 

[Steve@TF]

+1

LEO's who compare themselves to soldiers make me lol.

im sure those who are still in the service while doing LE job, who leave to do a deployment and then come back to work in the states probably roll their eyes when they hear their colleagues complain about conditions, hours, and danger and what not lol

 

[sunburned]

no offense meant here but i have to address your statement here..

the streets are a war zone often deadlier than war zones? really? :dw: do you drive your squad car down the street scared to death that an ied is going blow you and your car apart at any moment. that someone on a roof top is going to start spraying you with automatic weapon fire? that a woman holding a baby on the street corner is concealing a rifle or a bomb, just waiting to kill you? if so, you'd be way too paranoid for your job. how many soliders have died or seriously injured in iraq/afghanistan (non accidental) in the last 5 years? how many cops across the US?? (non accidental). im willing to be its more than 1000:1 at least.

there's a lot more rules and scrutiny?? you cant be serious. US soliders cant fire unless being fired upon. do you have the same ROE? you have to wait till the gang banger carrying a gun actually fires at you? people on US streets are better armed than enemy combatants in afghanistan?? RPGs, AK47s, Sniper fire, bombs, belt fed machine guns, grenades and more? and just because a house was raided that had a grenade and an AK47 by no means is comparable to them actually being used against YOU in the streets, on a daily basis. when you have to put down a suspect, do a bunch of people from the community run out and hide the weapons/evidence to try to make it seem like an unjustified shooting?
and the police union and politicians always try to protect and back up cops. the military has no problem throwing a solider under the bus in order to save face.

harder to detect? do you have the mentality that everyone non-LEO is the enemy? because that's how it is in a war zone. where the guy working right next/with to you might turn around and unload his weapon on you and your squad. or a woman or child or elderly person carrying a bomb or weapon looking to kill you. or a car you're driving by might explode. or a door you're about to kick open may trigger a bomb or have someone standing behind it ready to spray automatic weapon fire at you. these are things that happen on a daily basis over there.

im not nor have i been in the military, yet even i know this...

and fwiw, i dont see this story as being "murder". i see it as a terrible accident. i think just about anyone would think that the guy chasing the bleeding guy was the perpetrator especially if he lunged for him. did the cops identify themselves and order him to stop?? maybe there was no time, just way too quick and a split second decision had to be made. i could see that. it sucks, bad. for everyone involved. should he be punished? i cant say right off the bat.
one thing is for sure, imagine a neighbor heard the screams and saw this unfolding, ran outside with his .45 and did the same thing. thinking he was saving the bleeding guy from imminent death. the law does allow for a person to use deadly force in defense of another person's life. But we all know that guy would be sitting a jail cell right now for making the same mistake.

Well said Steve. I agree the military comparison is wayyyyyy off base, and seems to be the main problem with some LEO's these days. Cops are treating the world like everyone wants to do them harm and deceive them, when the general public is honestly scared the cops are out to do the same thing to them.

I also agree that anyone non-LEO that randomly had a gun and shot this guy would have been quickly locked up and forced to somehow prove himself innocent.


The part I bolded is where I just cannot agree with you. Sorry to play armchair LEO, but lets analyze the situation as if we're pulling up to the house:

You're dealing with a suspect that has a knife. Yes, a knife is a dangerous weapon in close quarters and can easily kill someone. But if you're outside the house and the suspect is inside the house, you aren't really in danger at this point. You identify yourself as the police and yell inside for the guy to come out with his hands up or whatever.

A dude covered in blood runs out of the house then another guy, fitting the description of the suspect, comes running out behind him. At this point, the only one in possible danger is the bloody guy. Again you are assuming the suspect has a knife, so you should see at least something in his hand if he's about to attack anyone.

What these cops thought in this situation was: No time to think, just open fire on the 'suspect' so that I don't have to get in harms way. Straight up shoot to kill on a guy who isn't a direct threat to me or any of my fellow officers and isn't clearly brandishing any weapon.

And it wasn't just one, but THREE?? Or maybe the other two fired because they already had their weapons drawn and an itchy trigger finger that responded to hearing another gunshot?

 

[GloomySVT]

+1 I always get a kick out of that. Especially when they undermine our servicemen and women. I've seen it firsthand, and it pisses me off.

 

[NinjaBum]

Seriously, the guys who say that stuff are the ones who have never served and want to make what they do seem just as dangerous.

 

[Blk04L]

I also agree that anyone non-LEO that randomly had a gun and shot this guy would have been quickly locked up and forced to somehow prove himself innocent.


The part I bolded is where I just cannot agree with you. Sorry to play armchair LEO, but lets analyze the situation as if we're pulling up to the house:

You're dealing with a suspect that has a knife. Yes, a knife is a dangerous weapon in close quarters and can easily kill someone. But if you're outside the house and the suspect is inside the house, you aren't really in danger at this point. You identify yourself as the police and yell inside for the guy to come out with his hands up or whatever.

A dude covered in blood runs out of the house then another guy, fitting the description of the suspect, comes running out behind him. At this point, the only one in possible danger is the bloody guy. Again you are assuming the suspect has a knife, so you should see at least something in his hand if he's about to attack anyone.

Sad but true to the first part.

It was 9:30 at night. I don't know how well the lighting was there. For all we know, Winklers hands could of been not visible to the officers and he might of been "gaining" on the victim. Or for all they knew, the knife could of been in his back pocket.

Simultaneously, victim Winkler ran out of the door, lunging at the back of the fleeing victim. Both ran directly at the deputies
LA Times

And if they are running to the cops, their lives would have been in danger, if that was the suspect behind the victim.

I have no reason to defend the cops, jmo on this incident. Sad story with a bad ending.

 

[NinjaBum]

I'm not a LEO and never will be, I've had my fill of that sort of lifestyle. Overseas, I saw and was involved in crazy shit. Undoubtedly some LEO's see similar things, people shooting at them, dead bodies, etc. Difference from my view is that guy has a chance of being put on paid leave, getting sent to therapy, and at least it's probable that isn't going to happen again any time soon. We got involved in firefights, had dbags lobbing rockets at our compound, or burying 155 rounds on the roads outside, and had to come back to sleep on our AC-less mud hut only to be welcomed back to the grind the next day with the same stuff. I didn't get to come home and unwind with my family, I was just stuck over there internalizing everything, trying to stay numb to everything that happened on a regular basis.

I lived paranoid and in fear of every crowd of people, every teenaged kid who was probably just curious about what I was doing, anyone who came close. Every minute I was ready to flip my safety off and gun someone down.

Some LEOs seem to think it prudent to think in that same manner, and I just don't think that's how your mindset should be as a LEO. Same reason why I personally think it's really not that great of an idea to hire someone who is prior military on as a LEO.

 

[Svtkidd23]

My guess is that 99.9% of the members here haven't shot a moving anything. It's hard as shit to hit a moving IDPA target and you know when, where, and how fast it will be moving never mind a completely unknown situation like that. Any of you armchair quarterbacks that think it's easy to assess the situation on the fly and eliminate targets are more than welcome to come out and try.

I think I've killed more ducks than the cast of duck dynasty.. Does that count? Lol 30mph Teal the size of A football

 

[hoamskilet]

God damn right I'm serious. I don't know how old you are but I'm old enough to remember before all this paramilitary stuff was done to the police. The times have changed and citizens are being victimized by police more than ever. I've never had a cop "help" me in anything in 43 years. The police aren't your friends. If you want to suck their **** and hold their hand and praise them, great! I'm treating them just like they treat us, the enemy.

Old enough to not be a p.o.s. and cheer every time I hear of a LEO getting gunned down or killed in the line of duty. Far from a LEO **** sucker here, but I have the mental capacity to understand that you'll hear about the few dirt bag cops and ones that make mistakes far more than the thousands of officers doing good out there.

 

[Tezz500]

Exactly... Shame this isn't in smack down so we could beat them with a rubber hose.

+1

LEO's who compare themselves to soldiers make me lol.

 

[ON D BIT]

I like the fact no one is blaming the man who actually took three victims captive, killed one of them, knifed another, and tortured one or both of them for this unfortunate situation. The man the took all three needs to be held responsible for all the violence! As for the shooting the cops fired to protect the man who was knifed in the neck and was bleeding profusely.

 

[SolarYellow]

Old enough to not be a p.o.s. and cheer every time I hear of a LEO getting gunned down or killed in the line of duty. Far from a LEO **** sucker here, but I have the mental capacity to understand that you'll hear about the few dirt bag cops and ones that make mistakes far more than the thousands of officers doing good out there.

Unfortunately these days there are more than just a "few" dirt bag cops. The trend seems to be increasing.

 

[Tezz500]

Unfortunately these days there are more than just a "few" dirt bag cops. The trend seems to be increasing.

+1

 

[Coiled03]

I like the fact no one is blaming the man who actually took three victims captive, killed one of them, knifed another, and tortured one or both of them for this unfortunate situation. The man the took all three needs to be held responsible for all the violence! As for the shooting the cops fired to protect the man who was knifed in the neck and was bleeding profusely.

Last time I checked, that guy didn't pull the trigger.

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

so we have a multiple cops with GUNS, and they shot a singular suspect who supposedly had a KNIFE

seriously, what the **** more needs to be said? "split second decision, accident, blah blah blah", even if this was the actual suspect, who in their ****ing right mind would consider this singular guy threatening enough to multiple cops with GUNS to actually shoot to kill? these rationalizations are such ****in bullshit. sorry, this isn't "human error", cops are supposed to be held to a higher standard than that, and as such should face consequences when they fail to live up to that standard.

 

[ZYBORG]

This trend gets more and more disturbing. Cops getting away with killing an innocent human being and brushing it off like "too bad so sad, shit happens".

Its just sickening, then you have dirtbag swine talking about how the streets are more of a warzone than actual warzones. HA! Cherry on mother****ing TOP!

Same thing that was happening with the Chris Dorner incident, the were blasting innocent civilians because they were too coward to P.I.D. their target properly.

 

[NinjaBum]

Yeah it's retarded. I haven't heard of a bunch of cops sitting in their cruiser kidnapped and decapitated in a while. That happened right down the road from me when I was in Yusifiyah. Stuff totally happens in the war-torn streets of Houston all the time brah.

 

[ON D BIT]

Last time I checked, that guy didn't pull the trigger.

Last time I checked that guy killed one, and tried to kill two more while torturing them! But of course no one cares about them, they are not celebrities!

 

[ON D BIT]

"split second decision, accident, blah blah blah", even if this was the actual suspect, who in their ****ing right mind would consider this singular guy threatening enough to multiple cops with GUNS....?

He was not threatening the cops, he looked to be threatening the guy with the blood gashing from his neck. Of course if the cops did nothing, and the guy with the neck wound died, everyone would still be saying damn those cops they let that man die. No win situation!