Buyer advice for a noob: mustang or camaro/firebird?

[kewlstory]

Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum and I'm looking at buying a project car. I've narrowed down my choice to either a fourth gen f body or a fourth gen mustang. My question is, between the two:
- which is a better platform for a project in the long run
- which is better stock or at least with bolt ons
- which is more reliable
- which is easier to work on
- which costs less in the long run to mantain and mod
- and any other benefits one has over the other?
My budget right now is 5-6k. In a couple months it may go up to 7-8k.i wanna buy the car before summer, hopefully still in the spring. I've driven a new edge gt and an lt1 ta. The lt1 has addicting torque but the Mustang seemed a nicer package all around. Can anyone give an amateur some advice on buying their first pony car? And anything else they'd like to add about the two?

 

[blacksheep-1]

Honestly either will do you right, there's no real vices with either car, they don't intrinsically rust or fall apart if they've been taken care of. I've owned every F-body style there was until this last generation. I've also owned or worked on about every Mustang incantation as well. They both have massive aftermarket support. The Ford "triangulated rear suspension" pretty much sucks over the F-body's torque arm but then you can actually work on a Ford mustang engine without removing it from the car, they both have their pros and cons, it's pretty much a matter of personal preference. just make sure whatever you decide, it's not a God forsaken import.

 

[jymboslice]

I'd go with an Ls1 TA to be honest with ya.


Camaro's are stupid. New edge mustangs are not that great for going fast on a budget.

 

[Johnf78]

If it's about speed ls1 all the way. A 2v is not the motor build for speed on a budget. If you could come across a 4v then it's a different story IMO.

 

[Gravik]

Get a Mustang. LS1 cars are a PITA to work on. Half the motor is under the cowl panel.

I looked at a 2002 Camaro SS before getting the Mustang. Definitely felt like a rocket ship compared to the 2v. But **** having to work on anything in the engine bay on that car. Plus the Mustang looks better, sounds better, and is most likely more reliable.

 

[kewlstory]

How about reliability, can anyone tell me more about that? I know its an older car but I wanna know which one will fall apart first.

 

[kewlstory]

And everyone is talking ls1, opinions on the lt1?

 

[mattadams6552]

I love mustangs, but i would go with a trans am or camaro.

 

[DHG1078]

Performance wise, I would go with something with an ls1. Style wise, mustang all day. As much as I love mustangs, the 2v just blows when it comes to performance potential for the same money. Although if you found a clean fox body, I would go that route. Great looks and performance potential. Cheap to mod too.

Reliability wise I think it will be a wash. It's going to depend on how well it was maintained.

 

[1hot281]

4th gen f-body pros:
-larger, more powerful engine with more potential with minimal mods
-better 6-speed T56 manual transmission
-better rear suspension design (LCA, TA & PHR)
-better front suspension design (SLA/double wishbone)
-air conditioning like you wouldn't believe

4th gen f-body cons:
-seriously crap interior. Crap dashboard. Crap seats. Crap window motors.
-terrible factory sound system
-weak rear end
-space and architecture in the engine compartment make work, unique.
-despite the superior suspension designs front and rear, weak stamped suspension components and soft spring rates work together for weak handling.

New edge GT pros:
-nice interior by comparison. Comfy seats. Decent back seats. Decent trunk.
-much better sound system (Mach audio)
-nimble handling despite the chassis/suspension shortcomings
-strong 8.8" rear end
-great GREAT sound from the true dual exhaust

New Edge GT cons:
-floppy chassis in desperate need of subframe connectors
-terrible front suspension design (Macpherson strut)
-terrible rear suspension design (4-link)
-weak stock brakes
-weak engine. Stock, or bolt-on for bolt-on, compared to the LS1.

I'm sure I've missed a number of things... But I feel this captures some key points to be aware of.

 

[Johnf78]

How about reliability, can anyone tell me more about that? I know its an older car but I wanna know which one will fall apart first.

They are both very reliable engines

 

[kewlstory]

Performance wise, I would go with something with an ls1. Style wise, mustang all day. As much as I love mustangs, the 2v just blows when it comes to performance potential for the same money. Although if you found a clean fox body, I would go that route. Great looks and performance potential. Cheap to mod too.

Reliability wise I think it will be a wash. It's going to depend on how well it was maintained.

If Fox bodies are easy to mod, does the same apply to the 94-95 mustangs with the Windsor 5.0? Or is the 4.6 a big step up from those years?

 

[DHG1078]

If Fox bodies are easy to mod, does the same apply to the 94-95 mustangs with the Windsor 5.0? Or is the 4.6 a big step up from those years?

I haven't actually worked on a 94-95 so im not sure how much room there is to work on everything but I would think it would be similar to a pre-94. The 94/95 will be slower than the pre-94 though because it is a heavier car. the 4.6 is not a big step up. The non-pi 4.6 motors are absolute pigs. The pi motors are much better but still aren't the best platform.

Fox bodies are very easy to mod and work on. I don't know how mechanically inclined you are but you can do a lot of work on the motor in an afternoon if you know what your doing. Fox bodies can usually be found cheap but it can be a chore to find one in good condition. Bolt-ons make huge differences on the 5.0 compared to the 4.6 and the fox body is light compared to an sn-95. Parts are relatively cheap for the old 5.0 compared to the 4.6 too. The 4.6 is tougher and more expensive to work on.

what car you go with really comes down to what are your preferences, priorities and end goals of the car are. Any car you choose can be made to be fast. Some are just cheaper/ easier than others to work on. Different motors have different characteristics as well.

 

[kewlstory]

I haven't actually worked on a 94-95 so im not sure how much room there is to work on everything but I would think it would be similar to a pre-94. The 94/95 will be slower than the pre-94 though because it is a heavier car. the 4.6 is not a big step up. The non-pi 4.6 motors are absolute pigs. The pi motors are much better but still aren't the best platform.

Fox bodies are very easy to mod and work on. I don't know how mechanically inclined you are but you can do a lot of work on the motor in an afternoon if you know what your doing. Fox bodies can usually be found cheap but it can be a chore to find one in good condition. Bolt-ons make huge differences on the 5.0 compared to the 4.6 and the fox body is light compared to an sn-95. Parts are relatively cheap for the old 5.0 compared to the 4.6 too. The 4.6 is tougher and more expensive to work on.

what car you go with really comes down to what are your preferences, priorities and end goals of the car are. Any car you choose can be made to be fast. Some are just cheaper/ easier than others to work on. Different motors have different characteristics as well.

I ask because I'm not that into fox bodies (and the h8 comes in 3, 2, 1.......). It's more of the old interior that throws me off. The sn95 interior isn't a caddy or something, but i could live with it. And one more question, ive heard many people say many things so what should a new edge gt run in the quarter stock and in decent condition? I've heard people tell me anywhere from high 15s to 13.7

 

[DHG1078]

I ask because I'm not that into fox bodies (and the h8 comes in 3, 2, 1.......). It's more of the old interior that throws me off. The sn95 interior isn't a caddy or something, but i could live with it. And one more question, ive heard many people say many things so what should a new edge gt run in the quarter stock and in decent condition? I've heard people tell me anywhere from high 15s to 13.7

I know quite a few people who don't care for fox bodies so you are not alone there. But remember that interior is just an updated 1979 interior lol. The sn-95 interior is much nicer. I love the style of the interior in my 01 bullitt. If you want a 94/95 mustang that's fine. Its not like its way slower than the 93. Just has a bit extra weight. If you go with a 4.6, either plan on doing a PI swap or just look for one that has the PI motor or swap done already. And plan on doing full length sub-frame connectors.

New edge (99-04 and has the PI motor) stock, most people will do mid to high 14s. A GOOD driver can get it down to low 14's on good tires. minor bolt ons can get it down to low 13's fairly easily.

 

[kewlstory]

PI and PI and PI. I keep seeing this, but idk exactly what it is? Port injected? I prolly sound like a dumb teenager looking for a fast car

 

[DHG1078]

The PI motor has redesigned heads and intake. its a MUCH better design than non-PI. Not the best design ever, but a big improvement. The update took the output from 215 to 260 crank hp. 96-98 came with non-PI motors. 99+ came with the update. Fortunately, if you get a 4.6 without the PI heads, you can do the swap yourself for fairly cheap with used heads. The 4.6 mod motors are far more complex than the 5.0 push rod motors. the 4.6 has an over head cam engine design while the 5.0 has an overhead valve design. The 4.6 has more moving parts and more cams which is why its more expensive to work on. They have good performance potential, just takes a bit more cash to get there.

 

[kewlstory]

I know the 5.0 is a pushrod. Is there a noticeable difference in torque between a 5.0 and a 4.6? And does PI stand for anything? And do crown vics or explorers come with pi heads? I heard looking around a junkyard can bring up some pretty cheap mods

 

[blacksheep-1]

I know the 5.0 is a pushrod. Is there a noticeable difference in torque between a 5.0 and a 4.6? And does PI stand for anything? And do crown vics or explorers come with pi heads? I heard looking around a junkyard can bring up some pretty cheap mods

PI= performance improved The 5.0 were developed pretty well when they went to the 4.6 which wasn't much until the PI cars came along, but the 4.6 although a little more expensive to work on has IMO a lot more performance potential than the 5.0. As for the 4 valve cars. I saw an 03 Termi with a 4.6 (completely stock including the heads) pull down over 500 rear wheel horsepower with a pulley change, chip, intake and longtubes, that's pretty tough to beat, but it's also probably out of your price range.
The 4.6 mustangs were pretty milquetoast , like stated low 13s with bolt ons, but generally a better built car IMO than the F-body
BTW there's a lot of LS engines in Mustangs these days.

 

[kewlstory]

The terminator is bada** but it's way or of my reach. Won't any other 4.6 explode with anything more than 450 whp? And how expensive would it be to build a 12 sec mustsng? Would it cost more to do than on an f body