Building block options???

[JB_2010GT500]

I would say if you want 850 to the tires and want to use all that power (ie, at the drag strip) you’ll need race gas. Even if it’s theoretically possible to run 93, why chance it with no margin for error? That would probably be too much power to hook on the street anyways, so others’ suggestions about running a less aggressive setup with pump gas make sense.


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[RBB]

I would say if you want 850 to the tires and want to use all that power (ie, at the drag strip) you’ll need race gas. Even if it’s theoretically possible to run 93, why chance it with no margin for error? That would probably be too much power to hook on the street anyways, so others’ suggestions about running a less aggressive setup with pump gas make sense.


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Agreed. If you are going to race it on 93, put some Torco in the tank at the very least.

 

[csvt98]

‘11 block a good starting platform. Put some of the budget in fixing the biggest restriction, the lower intake.
With a Gen3 I’d assume 850rwhp very doable.
-J

What is wrong with the lower? Grab a KB or FRPP lower intake?

Stick with the 11 block. Some highly regarded people in the industry think its one of the strongest blocks produced by or for Ford. 11-12 were produced in Germany by Honsul.

Factory pistons are Mahle Forged and honestly, its my belief that the stock powder rods are the limitation in these engines. You're goal of 850 is very attainable, and with new true forged rods, Id personally be hard pressed to think you need sleeves or a new block. Then again an inspection by a qualified builder who is familiar with these 11-12 engines should help you make the final call when the engine comes apart.

Do your due diligence and as much research as you can. Speak with as many people as you can. In researching what I needed for the goals on my '11, I was extremely fortunate to have talked with several of the big names in the modular community. These people took the time to take phone calls from dumpy little me and point me in the right direction for what I wanted out of my car.

For your goals, I dont think you need a lot done to the shortblock to reliably hit your goal, in my opinion. Biggest limitation is fuel both in delivery and quality. If corn (e85) isnt available like RBB states, talk to your tuner to see what he/she is comfortable with as far as power on 93 goes.

If one were to grab a 2011-2012 5.4, could you just swap rods and call it a day? Do OPG's/crank sprocket and send it to 900-1k? I want to do a VMP Gen 3/ KB Twin 75/DD149/2" headers with a street tune on 93 and then swap pulley's and go race gas for when I want to have fun.

 

[sleek98]

What is wrong with the lower? Grab a KB or FRPP lower intake?

Those are the intercooler bricks inside of the lower manifold.

The manifold it self can be opened way up. I bought a spare and had it ported, swapped it out and sold my stock one. Man the difference in the openings and the dividers from the ported to the stock unit was huge. It’s worth 25-30 whp.

A member here did a dyno comparison on his vmp 5.0 which is same basic Lower intake design and picked up 26 or 29.

 

[RedVenom48]

What is wrong with the lower? Grab a KB or FRPP lower intake?


If one were to grab a 2011-2012 5.4, could you just swap rods and call it a day? Do OPG's/crank sprocket and send it to 900-1k? I want to do a VMP Gen 3/ KB Twin 75/DD149/2" headers with a street tune on 93 and then swap pulley's and go race gas for when I want to have fun.

To be 100% honest with you, thats my plan exactly save for the VMP. Im going with a Whipple unit. After a few calls to Mahle and Ford Racing, the off the record advice was that the 11-12 pistons are fine to 1000hp. The PM rods are the weak link. Manely makes a nice rod for sure, but dont overlook Oliver Racing. I got a set of their Speedway 5.4 rods and per Oliver, they are capable of 1600hp.

To be sure, you NEED to get the Kinetic Motorsports Crank Saver stud kit. The factory TTY is a big part of crank snout failures. This is also a problem with the stock style ARP upgrade. This is a complete revision of the damper clamping system. Its an ARP 2000 stud that goes allllll the way down to the end of the cavity with 16mm 12pt nut to fasten.

This takes all the torsional stress off the snout from the factory bolt and additionally reinforces the snout past the under cut fillet. Check this picture from Kinetik out:

For $120 bucks, its a no brainer I think.

As for the OPGs and lower crank, absolutely need to upgrade those. Ive got $600 in Accufab OPGs and a Ford Racing oil pump housing ready for the build along with a TSS lower crank gear. They are that important to a GT500 engine living a long happy and monstrous life.

If you plan on using a 2 step, you need to look at upgraded 8mm tensioner pivot pins as mandatory as well. Secondary chains and factory cam bolts are questionable as well.

 

[csvt98]

Those are the intercooler bricks inside of the lower manifold.

The manifold it self can be opened way up. I bought a spare and had it ported, swapped it out and sold my stock one. Man the difference in the openings and the dividers from the ported to the stock unit was huge. It’s worth 25-30 whp.

A member here did a dyno comparison on his vmp 5.0 which is same basic Lower intake design and picked up 26 or 29.

Good to know, I will definitely do that.

To be 100% honest with you, thats my plan exactly save for the VMP. Im going with a Whipple unit. After a few calls to Mahle and Ford Racing, the off the record advice was that the 11-12 pistons are fine to 1000hp. The PM rods are the weak link. Manely makes a nice rod for sure, but dont overlook Oliver Racing. I got a set of their Speedway 5.4 rods and per Oliver, they are capable of 1600hp.

To be sure, you NEED to get the Kinetic Motorsports Crank Saver stud kit. The factory TTY is a big part of crank snout failures. This is also a problem with the stock style ARP upgrade. This is a complete revision of the damper clamping system. Its an ARP 2000 stud that goes allllll the way down to the end of the cavity with 16mm 12pt nut to fasten.

This takes all the stress torsional stress off the snout from the factory bolt and additionally reinforces the snout past the under cut fillet. Check this picture from Kinetik out:

View attachment 1560788

For $120 bucks, its a no brainer I think.

As for the OPGs and lower crank, absolutely need to upgrade those. Ive got $600 in Accufab OPGs and a Ford Racing oil pump housing ready for the build along with a TSS lower crank gear. They are that important to a GT500 engine living a long happy and monstrous life.

If you plan on using a 2 step, you need to look at upgraded 8mm tensioner pivot pins as mandatory as well. Secondary chains and factory cam bolts are questionable as well.

Haha awesome, what is the price of the Oliver's? Cool deal on the stud kit. I do not care to make the car super fast. I am mainly about reliability and if I can reliably have a race gas tune or 93 pump tune at 1,000, may as well lol. I would go Whipple 3.4 or 4.0 at that point though. Maybe a KB 3.6 or 4.2LC. Blowers can be a whole debate themselves lol.

Ok awesome on the OPG's/Sprocket. Why the FRPP housing though?

 

[biminiLX]

Good to know, I will definitely do that.





Ok awesome on the OPG's/Sprocket. Why the FRPP housing though?

Nothing special about the housing but there were revisions made to the ‘13-14 housing, and several places including FRPP sell the billet OPGs installed in new ‘13-14 GT500 housings. The other option is to buy the gears themselves and use them in your existing used housing.
-J

 

[RedVenom48]

Good to know, I will definitely do that.



Haha awesome, what is the price of the Oliver's? Cool deal on the stud kit. I do not care to make the car super fast. I am mainly about reliability and if I can reliably have a race gas tune or 93 pump tune at 1,000, may as well lol. I would go Whipple 3.4 or 4.0 at that point though. Maybe a KB 3.6 or 4.2LC. Blowers can be a whole debate themselves lol.

Ok awesome on the OPG's/Sprocket. Why the FRPP housing though?

From my understanding the FRPP pump is the stock 13-14 GT500 pump. Its got a stronger backing plate than the 07-12 pumps and I believe the pump runs at a slightly higher pressure.

As for the Oliver's, the best price I found them at was from Summit:

Oliver Speedway Series Connecting Rods F6657MDSW8

Oliver Racing Parts

This is the option I went with, but there are many great options. I just liked the overall product and operation at Oliver.

 

[VNMOUS1]

I am in the minority, but 850rwhp on 93 octane will be tough. Of course the dyno type/settings play a big part in the numbers they report.

It's not just tough. It won't happen without turning off the knock sensors and then it's just unsafe.

Bump the compression and its even more dangerous.

My 07 has 9.7:1 CR, L&M NSR cams, Whipple 4th Gen 2.9 and ALL the freaking boost. I have to run very little timing on 93.

The car makes over 1k on C16 but I would be stunned if it makes over 800 on 93

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[biminiLX]

It's not just tough. It won't happen without turning off the knock sensors and then it's just unsafe.

Bump the compression and its even more dangerous.

My 07 has 9.7:1 CR, L&M NSR cams, Whipple 4th Gen 2.9 and ALL the freaking boost. I have to run very little timing on 93.

The car makes over 1k on C16 but I would be stunned if it makes over 800 on 93

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Agreed. I feel for the guys who don’t have E85 around.
As far as pump 93 goes, it’s a shame to spend all that money on hard parts just to neuter them on 93.
Meth injection, unleaded race fuel or E85 for my advice on a street car.
-J

 

[Klaus]

cool will do when I look into that was thinking of going 9:1 ratio as well I know a lot of people are going 9.2 id do that if I was only corn but we will see as the build progresses just trying to plan all the stuff I need also need to get a DD which I needed anyway.

Stick with stock compression. It is a lot easier to add boost than reduce compression.

 

[Klaus]

I am mainly about reliability and if I can reliably have a race gas tune or 93 pump tune at 1,000, may as well lol. I would go Whipple 3.4 or 4.0 at that point though. Maybe a KB 3.6 or 4.2LC. Blowers can be a whole debate themselves lol.

You are not going to hit 1000 on pump gas. Reread KBBs post and check the specs on his motor. He has a perfect build and is at 800 on 93.

 

[Catmonkey]

Like Bimini eluded, water meth injection, might be a way to extend your boost and timing and get closer to 1,000 than 93 alone would allow. If you could do it, I'm not sure. At some point, I intend to experiment with it. E85 is not readily available in the south and has a profound effect on your driving range. Water meth is only injected when you need it, you just need to know when your reservoir is empty. It's just that 800 rwhp is more than you can harness in street trim anyway.

 

[biminiLX]

Like Bimini eluded, water meth injection, might be a way to extend your boost and timing and get closer to 1,000 than 93 alone would allow. If you could do it, I'm not sure. At some point, I intend to experiment with it. E85 is not readily available in the south and has a profound effect on your driving range. Water meth is only injected when you need it, you just need to know when your reservoir is empty. It's just that 800 rwhp is more than you can harness in street trim anyway.

I beg to differ on the 800rwhp maximum
Just gotta run the bubba tires haha
We’ll see how these do at over 1000rwhp, but the Hoosier 325/45/18s actually held there own at 965rwhp.
-J

 

[RedVenom48]

mmmmmm racing radials.... @biminiLX Let us know how the Street R's hold up on the street. Was going to get a set of Nitto NT05Rs for my SVTPP 20s as I like their sidewall construction for a street tire. I have a set of 305/45R18s NT05Rs that I did a mini power tour on 3 years ago. Drove from San Diego to Tucson, raced on their 1/4 mile track and drove back. Great stability and carcass.

Always good to have options.

 

[GT500_012308]

Yea I’m gonna throw some welds on and want the street Rs since I can go between those to play and stockers ( with 555Rs )

I’ve done a few 3rd gear pulls which should have been from 2nd it spun but wasn’t horrible 2nd is gonna be a B but oh well.


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[GT500_012308]

Also I’m not number chasing I’m chasing if I throw more boost I don’t blow my motor. Initially it will be a lower on the Gen2R then Gen3 if it doesn’t make 850 I don’t really mind it will be fast enough for street already is for a true street car/DD with the cams I’m at 755whp.

Just want it reliable and not have to worry about the motor blowing


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[csvt98]

You are not going to hit 1000 on pump gas. Reread KBBs post and check the specs on his motor. He has a perfect build and is at 800 on 93.

You mean to tell me that if you build the motor you cannot run 93 over 800? Well I guess mine will have blower and call it a day at 7.

mmmmmm racing radials.... @biminiLX Let us know how the Street R's hold up on the street. Was going to get a set of Nitto NT05Rs for my SVTPP 20s as I like their sidewall construction for a street tire. I have a set of 3-5/45R18s NT05Rs that I did a mini power tour on 3 years ago. Drove from San Diego to Tucson, raced on their 1/4 mile track and drove back. Great stability and carcass.

Always good to have options.

Street R's are great and so are Hoosier DR's.

Also I’m not number chasing I’m chasing if I throw more boost I don’t blow my motor. Initially it will be a lower on the Gen2R then Gen3 if it doesn’t make 850 I don’t really mind it will be fast enough for street already is for a true street car/DD with the cams I’m at 755whp.

Just want it reliable and not have to worry about the motor blowing


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Number chasing with a blown car is not hard, it seems GT500's are gas limited. Throw on a Gen 3 and enjoy 800.

 

[RBB]

You mean to tell me that if you build the motor you cannot run 93 over 800? Well I guess mine will have blower and call it a day at 7.

Building the motor has nothing to do with it. You can only make so much power on a given octane, period. You might punch a hole in your stock block making xxxHP due to component failure, while a built block will live....but building your motor won’t magically free you from the constraints and limitations of your octane of choice.

 

[csvt98]

Building the motor has nothing to do with it. You can only make so much power on a given octane, period. You might punch a hole in your stock block making that kind of power, while a built block will live, but building your motor won’t magically free you from the constraints of your octane of choice.

I have gathered by reading the other thread about octane fuel. Owell, one can order race gas. I want to just drive one once I grab one. A blower swap and 750ish will be good for me.