#@($@! bodyroll!!!!! how to stop this?

[UCBeau]

my 01 is lowered w/ H&R supersports, has 04 cobra bilsteins on it, C/C plates, isolators, urethane IRS Subframe bushings, blah blah blah. yet the damn thing still rolls like a boat when i make quick steering inputs. what do i need to do to reduce or even stop this behavior?
FWIW i am NOT interested in 1/4 mile stuff, been there and done that. i am more into auto-x and road courses.

Thanks!

EDIT:
forgot to mention, i do have full length subframe connectors, and i am not hearing anything that would indicate a broken suspension component

 

[Orlandostang]

Check my sig, I have no body roll. The chasis stiffening stuff really helps, also make sure you have good tires.

 

[Taz]

Although I personally think the '04 Bils may be valved a little on the light side for the H&R's, you appear to have the suspension fairly well covered with respect to roll. I use the same springs as you, but I run the MM Sport Bils up front and 00R Bils out back.

You have some chassis stiffening components in place, don't you? If not, you may actually be feeling the chassis flex. Otherwise, when was the last time you checked the pressure in your tires? Low pressure will contribute to roll, because the sidewalls flex quite a bit.

I guess you could have a busted sway bar end link, but that should make a racket.

Can't say for sure, but for me, those are the usual suspects.

:shrug:

BTW, the stock steering shaft uses a huge rubber rag joint that makes the response feel really sloppy. That lag in steering response can actually register with some drivers as body roll, but it isn't. It's just second-rate steering response.

Happy trails,

T-

 

[LSVT]

subframes!

 

[UCBeau]

sorry sorry sorry sorry
i forgot to put in that i have full length subframes in there, no racket or anything, and am running 275 nittos all around on 03 cobra wheels

 

[Torch10th]

Body roll is a function of the roll center height in relation to the car's cetner of gravity. The roll center on a stock mustang is pretty low to begin with, lower the car and it can dive under ground. a set of x2 ball joints will help raise your roll center and thus reduce body roll.

Depending on how much you'ev lowered the car, offset rack bushings may help as well. I would call MM on that though.

 

[01yellercobra]

How was the body roll before you put the new rims and tires on? If it's worse now, it could be that the new tires have a softer sidewall and that's what you're feeling.

 

[UCBeau]

i dont know if nitto 555's have a softer sidewall than the stock gatorbacks but thats definetly possible..however, it was pretty bad before, if i remember correctly

 

[green99_svt]

have you looked into stiffer stabalizer bars? try tirerack.com they sell the new eibach bars.

 

[UCBeau]

stabilizer bars? never heard of them...are they like the stb's the 96-98's had?

 

[Orlandostang]

stabilizer bars? never heard of them...are they like the stb's the 96-98's had?

He means sway bars, but a STB wouldnt hurt either. Chack out MM they've got a whole mess load of turn fast stuff.

 

[green99_svt]

some call them sway bars,

 

[99COBRA2881]

Body roll isn't all bad. With the front end stabilized too much you can actually get to a point where the car will want to understeer.

 

[Torch10th]

subframes, sidewall stiffnes, STB don't do SQUAT to combat body roll.

Ok lets look again at roll center. Since I provided the answer that would solve his problem.

Roll center is an imaginary point at which your car wants to roll about. It is based on suspension geometry in relation to vehicle center of gravity. lets say the vehicle CG is at 10" above the ground. Now lets take your lowred mustang. The roll center is likely below ground level. So instead of rolling about the center of gravity you are wanting to roll around the roll center which is now bleow ground level. This is what is causing the body to roll when you turn. Conversely lets say you managed to get your roll center higher than the center of gravity (it won't happen on a mustang) you car would actually roll in the direction of the turn rather than away from it (like a boat).

Trust me on this. If you place a set of x2 ball joints in there it will change your suspension geometry and raise your roll center to stock or near stock height. You'll eliminate a good amount of your body roll by doing this.

Throwing stiff springs and huge stabalizer bars is a bandaid. You can get the suspension so stiff that you loose grip and you start skidding around corners, especially those with less than perfect pavement.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

There is some excellent advise already in this thread....(X2 ball joints!!!)
My car has Global West full length SFCs only...
Other than that... it is ROCK STOCK...

Does it lean... not just yea... but HELL YEA!!!

In this pic I have passed an 04 SVT vert with lowering springs and an aftermarket front sway bar(Kenny brown I think)
He only put the front bar on so he was dealing with some handling issues(from the imbalance... he should have put both on at once)... which is why I was able to catch and pass him... even though he was a very good driver...

I guess the point I want to make is that even with SEVERE body roll it is possible for a car to still out handle one without it... if it is balanced and hooked... and the driver is able to allow for the grip available...

The example pic.. and yes... my car was in a heavy slide right there(both ends)

 

[CobraRed01]

Could the fact that the H&R SS springs are progressive rate be adding to the roll sensation? Maybe the stiffer H&R Race springs (also progressives) would solve your problem. The original Cobra R springs where linear and a lot racers favor them (and the H&R Race as well).

 

[UCBeau]

subframes, sidewall stiffnes, STB don't do SQUAT to combat body roll.

Ok lets look again at roll center. Since I provided the answer that would solve his problem.

Roll center is an imaginary point at which your car wants to roll about. It is based on suspension geometry in relation to vehicle center of gravity. lets say the vehicle CG is at 10" above the ground. Now lets take your lowred mustang. The roll center is likely below ground level. So instead of rolling about the center of gravity you are wanting to roll around the roll center which is now bleow ground level. This is what is causing the body to roll when you turn. Conversely lets say you managed to get your roll center higher than the center of gravity (it won't happen on a mustang) you car would actually roll in the direction of the turn rather than away from it (like a boat).

Trust me on this. If you place a set of x2 ball joints in there it will change your suspension geometry and raise your roll center to stock or near stock height. You'll eliminate a good amount of your body roll by doing this.

Throwing stiff springs and huge stabalizer bars is a bandaid. You can get the suspension so stiff that you loose grip and you start skidding around corners, especially those with less than perfect pavement.

steeda x2 ball joints, are they quality or does MM make them too? i'd prefer to stick with MM as i feel their stuff is the best out there.

 

[UCBeau]

There is some excellent advise already in this thread....(X2 ball joints!!!)
My car has Global West full length SFCs only...
Other than that... it is ROCK STOCK...

Does it lean... not just yea... but HELL YEA!!!

In this pic I have passed an 04 SVT vert with lowering springs and an aftermarket front sway bar(Kenny brown I think)
He only put the front bar on so he was dealing with some handling issues(from the imbalance... he should have put both on at once)... which is why I was able to catch and pass him... even though he was a very good driver...

I guess the point I want to make is that even with SEVERE body roll it is possible for a car to still out handle one without it... if it is balanced and hooked... and the driver is able to allow for the grip available...

The example pic.. and yes... my car was in a heavy slide right there(both ends)

jimmy, thats exactly what my car feels like its doing! exactly! and i absolutely hate it. it drives me up the wall. i want the damn thing to handle like its on friggin rails. (within reason of course, i know its not an E30 M3)

 

[99COBRA2881]

No body roll does not equal great handling. Maybe it looks cool, and if it handles like its on rails then you're going too slow. These pics Ive linked are from Hallet on Kumho V710s, track record is a 1:26. I was running a street alignment and managed a 1:34.117 with my full interior car. Our gutted race car with a very aggressive alignment ran a 1:30.xxx
My car has H&R Race springs, Bilstein HDs, MM 4 pt K member brace, fl subframes, MM subframe bushings, and aluminum diff mounts. It has no push in the corners, Ive had it understeer on me a handful of times, maybe it's my driving style but the car is very well balanced and very forgiving. In the corners it looks like Ive got H&R SS springs.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kjenk...=&.done=http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

 

[01yellercobra]

Just a thought, but how much of this is in your head? I'm not being a smart ass either.