Black Gold 380R's 65 Mustang Build Thread

geoffmt · May 1, 2022

So has the first test drive happened? I am super curious as to what you think. There will be bugs, brakes aren’t bedded in so they won’t bite like they will soon. Wonder how you will like the transmission and clutch and the extra power over the last 347

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Black Gold 380R · May 2, 2022

geoffmt said:
So has the first test drive happened? I am super curious as to what you think. There will be bugs, brakes aren’t bedded in so they won’t bite like they will soon. Wonder how you will like the transmission and clutch and the extra power over the last 347

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Hello Geoff. The official answer is No sir, I have not taken it on its first official test drive yet. I have not had a chance to fix the alternator and I'm worried that if I drive it the battery will die and leave me stranded.

Also, since I went to pick up the T-Bird last weekend I did not mess with the 65 on Sunday last weekend (only fixed the brakes and P/S leak on Saturday).

This weekend I did remove the alternator from the 65 and had it tested at the local O'Reilly's. Test results confirmed the alternator is not working properly. So, I'm going to a starter/alternator rebuild shop today to see if they can rebuild mine. Otherwise I'll have to just buy a new polished one online.

Now, the unofficial answer is before I picked up the T-Bird I drove the 65 around the block twice on Saturday. Once during the day and once at night.

I took it around the block to check my brakes and P/S leak issue during the day (good to go) and I tested all my lights during the drive around the block at night (good to go). Now, I did "NOT" give it a test "hit" or do anything crazy. Also, my around the block is maybe a quarter mile.

Here are my initial thoughts:

Love

The sound (awesome having rear and side exit)
The stance
The rack and pinon steering
The LED headlights
The Speedhut gauges
The 5 speed transmission
The back-up camera
The E-Stopp emergency brake
The fuel injection
The suspension
The feel of the car at slow speed
The gearing
The fact I have "NO" rubbing or funny noises (to include no exhaust leaks, no rear-end noise and no suspension noise)

Not sure of

The manual brakes (Still feels like it takes a lot of foot effort to engage them, but could be because of what you mentioned.)
The tune (idles up and then drops to normal when engaging the clutch/shifting between gears. That doesn't seem right to me. My tuner did say to call him when I drive it so he can make adjustments while I drive. This could also be because the car was "NOT" up to operating temperature too.)

Hate

The clutch I put a hydraulic throw-out bearing in it thinking it would improve my engagement effort, but the clutch feels like a damn dump truck clutch. VERY heavy effort to push the clutch pedal to the floor and takes a lot of effort to hold it there and bring it back up slowly for engagement. Don't know if it's my dual disk clutch not being broken in or if my clutch pedal to hydraulic cylinder is off/not long enough for the proper stroke (i.e. not enough leverage built in) or what. I installed everything as per the instructions from American Powertrain. So, I'm stumped. I will drive it like this for a little while to see if it loosens up while the clutch gets broken in (Or I at least get a good leg day workout LOL), but it shouldn't be that damn hard to push that clutch pedal in. Now besides the hard @$$ pedal the clutch is VERY smooth and engages nicely and it shifts great.

Overall

I'm VERY happy with how it turned out and how it's running for a practically from the ground up build. Pretty cool to have something that was up on blocks for 5 years go to moving on its own power after 2 years of work. And besides the clutch feel everything else seems to be pretty good or really good LOL.

Now I just need to get the alternator fixed, get the car up to operating temperature to make sure my electric fans come on and the cooling system operates properly. Then I can give it a good official test drive and get it up to highway speed. Then I'll know if I have any unwanted vibrations or other "bugs" and I'll be able to test the power to see how much more it is compared to the 347

...

I am busy for the next 2 weekends (this weekend is the Kindig visit. SWEET!), so the official test drive may happen towards the end of May........... Stay tuned...........

01yellercobra · May 2, 2022

Did your engine builder run the engine on a dyno before you picked it up? I can't remember. If he didn't don't idle that engine too much more. It'll need some "test hits" to seat the rings.

The RPM issue when shifting is a tuning thing. It just needs some tweaking.

I'd reach out to American Powertrain ASAP. If it's not easy now it's not going to get easy later on. Being a dual disc should make it even lighter. Less pressure is needed for the same amount of grip.

Black Gold 380R · May 2, 2022

01yellercobra said:
Did your engine builder run the engine on a dyno before you picked it up? I can't remember. If he didn't don't idle that engine too much more. It'll need some "test hits" to seat the rings.

The RPM issue when shifting is a tuning thing. It just needs some tweaking.

I'd reach out to American Powertrain ASAP. If it's not easy now it's not going to get easy later on. Being a dual disc should make it even lighter. Less pressure is needed for the same amount of grip.

Hey Bob. No sir, my engine builder does not have a dyno room. It's basically just a machine shop and not necessarily an engine performance shop. When I start the car I let it run a little and then I do give it a few wraps of the go fast pedal to hear that bad boy roar. So, it doesn't just idle the whole time it's running.

Okay, I thought the RPM issue in between shifts was a tuning thing. I wasn't worried to much since my tuner did tell me he needs to come out and mess with it while I drive it.

I will contact American Powertrain and ask them some questions, but I know what they are going to say..... "Your clutch pedal is not set up properly."

According to the instructions it says:

So you just converted your clanky old manual clutch to a hydraulic release bearing setup and you thought the pedal would be easier to operate than before. While that should be the case, it isn’t always, and that is due to geometry. Much like a brake pedal, there is a specific ratio that you need to achieve in order for the pedal to be easy to operate. For hydraulic clutch systems, that ratio is 6:1.

The bad thing is in the example they say:

On this 1965 Mustang, the factory clutch pedal is very close to the fulcrum, yielding a suitable ratio for the master cylinder. We were even able to use the original firewall hole.

And the kit I received from American Powertrain is made specifically for the 65 Mustang. So, their clutch master cylinder and rod placement are set up to utilize the factory hole in the firewall and the hole on the clutch pedal for the push rod to be set up in order to achieve the desired 6:1 ratio.

So, I don't know...... I'll call them and see what they say. Maybe it's a bad clutch master cylinder. You never know. As mentioned, besides the pressure it takes to operate the clutch pedal, the rest of the clutch system works great.

Here is the link to the instruction page for those who are interested.

Pedal Pusher: How to measure and adjust your Clutch Pedal Ratio

So you just converted your clanky old manual clutch to a hydraulic release bearing setup and you thought the pedal would be easier to operate...Read More

americanpowertrain.com

01yellercobra · May 2, 2022

Just revving it isn't going to do it. The rings need a load to seat properly. Depending on the rings you might be ok with what you've done, but better to error on the safe side with this stuff.

You'll probably need to get your measurements together before you call them. That way you can give them hard numbers so they can't say it's not set up properly. Maybe they sent you the wrong master cylinder.

The joys of new projects.

Black Gold 380R · May 2, 2022

01yellercobra said:
The joys of new projects.

Exactly! Especially when you're trying to get different parts from different manufactures to play well together LOL.

Black Gold 380R · May 3, 2022

01yellercobra said:
Just revving it isn't going to do it. The rings need a load to seat properly. Depending on the rings you might be ok with what you've done, but better to error on the safe side with this stuff.

Oh, and Bob, rest assured that once the alternator is fixed and the car is basically working properly..............

I have to get it back to these days, but better LOL..... There was no line lock or clutch back then either. Had to foot brake it........

Black Gold 380R · May 4, 2022

Woo Hoo.....

Flying out to Salt Lake this evening. Will be going to Kindig it Design on Friday and meeting with Dave and picking up my freshly painted and polished parts.

I'll be sure to take pictures and post up when I return.

LMAO!!!! I bet only the old school dudes recognize this meme.....

Black Gold 380R · May 8, 2022

Returning home today. I'll post up this evening.

Sneak peek of what was sitting in Dave's gallery. It's almost like he knew I was coming lol....

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Black Gold 380R · May 8, 2022

Okay Everyone,

Made it back home from Salt Lake City. Man, what a great trip. Way beyond my expectations. Once I arrived I took a picture of the outside and then went into the front office/gallery area. Here are the pictures from that.

Looks just like it does on TV LOL.

I walk in and see this 65 Mustang and the Ford F-100 that has the air filtration system I got for my car. It's like he set it up just for my visit LMAO!!! Yeah, I know it's just coincidence LOL.

I did a walk around and took some photos.

Man, I love their attention to detail. Here you can see they removed the fender bolts and made it look even smoother. I really like the custom hood hinges too.

Love that air filter system.

Black Gold 380R · May 8, 2022

Dave is very accommodating to his fans. Before my scheduled time a family walked in with small kids. He came out of his office, talked to them, gave some hot wheels to the kids and signed autographs and took pictures.

When he finished with the family he walked up to me and I told him I had a meeting with him in about 10 minuets. He then asked "Are you Glenn?" I said yes sir and he immediately met my family and got his staff going on getting my parts.

Once the parts arrived he interacted with me and it was GREAT! People were in the show room looking at me like "Who is that guy?" LMAO!!!

First he unwrapped the parts and showed them to me. He unwrapped only one top hat so I could use it in order to get autographs.

I asked him if he would sign the top hat first. So, he got a sharpie and signed it. He also signed the back of my shirt, but my wife missed that photo opportunity LOL.

I then asked him if he could get the diecast car I made for him so we could take a picture together.

After that he asked me to sign the diecast. LOL. I've never been asked for my autograph before, but it was VERY cool.

After he gave me my parts and we did our meet and greet I went on a shop tour. I asked Dave if I could get others autographs and he told the tour guide to ensure I get the signatures I was looking for. During the tour we were told that we could not take pictures because they are filming season 9 and these episodes have not been released yet.

During the tour I was able to get all the signatures I requested:

-Dave Kindig
-Kev Dogg
-Hallie Watkins (Dave's personal assistant who helped me get on his calendar and coordinated my shop tour)
-Will Lockwood (Engineer who designed my Air Filtration system)
-Jason Pringle (Parts manger who was my original POC and got the ball rolling on the project for me)
-Greg Hebard (Fabrication specialist who actually used the CNC machine to cut my parts)

Now I need to see if I can clear coat this area to see if I can "seal" in these autographs. SWEET!

Once I install the parts on the car I'll take pictures and show you guys the finished product.

Overall it was an amazing trip and I had such a great time. Thanks to Dave and his first class crew for making this happen for me!!!!!

TORQUERULES · May 8, 2022

Black Gold 380R said:
Dave is very accommodating to his fans. Before my scheduled time a family walked in with small kids. He came out of his office, talked to them, gave some hot wheels to the kids and signed autographs and took pictures.

When he finished with the family he walked up to me and I told him I had a meeting with him in about 10 minuets. He then asked "Are you Glenn?" I said yes sir and he immediately met my family and got his staff going on getting my parts.

Once the parts arrived he interacted with me and it was GREAT! People were in the show room looking at me like "Who is that guy?" LMAO!!!

First he unwrapped the parts and showed them to me. He unwrapped only one top hat so I could use it in order to get autographs.
View attachment 1747976

I asked him if he would sign the top hat first. So, he got a sharpie and signed it. He also signed the back of my shirt, but my wife missed that photo opportunity LOL.
View attachment 1747977

I then asked him if he could get the diecast car I made for him so we could take a picture together.
View attachment 1747978

After that he asked me to sign the diecast. LOL. I've never been asked for my autograph before, but it was VERY cool.
View attachment 1747979

After he gave me my parts and we did our meet and greet I went on a shop tour. I asked Dave if I could get others autographs and he told the tour guide to ensure I get the signatures I was looking for. During the tour we were told that we could not take pictures because they are filming season 9 and these episodes have not been released yet.

During the tour I was able to get all the signatures I requested:

-Dave Kindig
-Kev Dogg
-Hallie Watkins (Dave's personal assistant who helped me get on his calendar and coordinated my shop tour)
-Will Lockwood (Engineer who designed my Air Filtration system)
-Jason Pringle (Parts manger who was my original POC and got the ball rolling on the project for me)
-Greg Hebard (Fabrication specialist who actually used the CNC machine to cut my parts)

View attachment 1747980

Now I need to see if I can clear coat this area to see if I can "seal" in these autographs. SWEET!

Once I install the parts on the car I'll take pictures and show you guys the finished product.

Overall it was an amazing trip and I had such a great time. Thanks to Dave and his first class crew for making this happen for me!!!!!

Those are some cool dudes. That was an excellent visit.

geoffmt · May 9, 2022

Wow, love the toys in the shop! It’s great that they accommodate fans and clients alike. You may think it’s just an air cleaner system but there is way more to it than that. It’s a couple shop hours, the experience of the shop visit, the hype and excitement you show on the thread. Maybe someone that reads the thread or sees your car at a show ends up having a car built by them. Glad you had a fun trip! It’s a bucket list to see his shop, maybe someday

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mariusvt · May 9, 2022

I'm sure you've already thought of it, but I'd definitely test on a scrape piece of aluminum how any clear interacts with the sharpie before dropping it on the real piece! That's awesome they rolled out the red carpet for you.

Black Gold 380R · May 9, 2022

geoffmt said:
Wow, love the toys in the shop! It’s great that they accommodate fans and clients alike. You may think it’s just an air cleaner system but there is way more to it than that. It’s a couple shop hours, the experience of the shop visit, the hype and excitement you show on the thread. Maybe someone that reads the thread or sees your car at a show ends up having a car built by them. Glad you had a fun trip! It’s a bucket list to see his shop, maybe someday

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Man, you nailed it Geoff. I view that trip/visit as a bucket list event for me as well. Yes, I think Dave runs a VERY well organized business. From my understanding they film Mon-Thu and then Fri is fan day. Friday is when fans are scheduled to come to the shop and go on tours (according to the tour guide that is something Dave wanted. Fans going to the shop and getting an up-close experience. As mentioned we couldn't take pictures, but we were taken right up to the workers and the projects). So, I think everyone knows Friday is going to be a day where they will be doing a lot of interacting. I was just lucky enough to interact with them as a client and a fan since I scheduled my visit on a Friday.

As I stood next to Dave, during our picture with the diecast, I told him that when I built that for him in 2018 I had no idea I would be standing next to him in his shop taking pictures, let alone picking up custom made parts for my car.

So, you are correct, although I went there to pick up my parts in person there was way more going on than just picking up parts. Plus, as you mentioned Geoff, it could translate into future business for him and maybe future interactions with me (although I doubt that LOL).

I asked my wife what her favorite part was and she told me the Kindig visit. I was like "Really?" And she said yes. She said she really enjoyed seeing how happy I was. Then I got nervous when she said that and hoped I didn't act goofy in front of Dave ROFLMAO....

This is definitely a lifetime memory for me brothers.

Black Gold 380R · May 9, 2022

mariusvt said:
I'm sure you've already thought of it, but I'd definitely test on a scrape piece of aluminum how any clear interacts with the sharpie before dropping it on the real piece! That's awesome they rolled out the red carpet for you.

Yes sir mariusvt. I have already been doing research on how to clear coat bare aluminum. Then I'll see how it works over bare aluminum and a sharpie. Should be fine as long as I go with light coats.

Yeah, it was a great experience for sure.

Black Gold 380R · May 11, 2022

Okay Everyone,

As mentioned before, I have not kept an official record of my hours, but I do keep an average of the hours I've worked.

I do have a few more bugs to work out, but since the majority of the build is done I wanted to do one final tally of my guesstimated labor charges.

As of the end of my build I believe I have 1,152 hours invested (could be more as I'm not counting holidays or days I took off from work to work on the car).

This is my formula:

- 24 months (May 2020 to Apr 2022) x 4 weekends per month = 96 weekends.
- 96 weekends x 2 days per weekend = 192 days spent working on the car.
- 192 days x 6 hours a day (average) = 1,152 hours.

I have been averaging $75 an hour for labor. So, if you multiply $75 an hour by 1,152 hours that's $86,400 in labor.

Now, I'm not going to say how much I have invested in my Kindig air filter system, but I will tell you that based on my invoices Kindig's labor rate is $110 per hour.

So, utilizing that amount and "saying" it took them the same amount of hours to build my car this is what it would have cost me if Kindig built my car.

$110 an hour for Kindig labor multiplied by 1,152 build hours would have cost me $126,720 in "labor" alone.......

Me = $86,400 in labor
Kindig = $126,720 in labor

LOL, now I'm not comparing my build level to Kindig's in any way shape or form. This is just a numbers game I'm playing.

When I went on my tour of Kindig's shop the tour guide said the 65 Mustang build and the Ford F100 build where listed at $500,000 or more. That's parts, labor, fabrication and materials.

So, I'm 100% sure there is no way in hell I could afford a Kindig build and $126,720 is not even close to what would be charged in labor for a Kindig build LMAO. I could barely afford a Kindig parts build LOL.

Grabber70Mach · May 17, 2022

Sounds like an awesome adventure to check off your bucket list. The paint I think you went the right way with what you did. The other paint job on the die-cast you posted, while it looks good. It would look dated in the future.

DSG2003Mach1 · May 17, 2022

Black Gold 380R said:
Okay Everyone,

As mentioned before, I have not kept an official record of my hours, but I do keep an average of the hours I've worked.

I do have a few more bugs to work out, but since the majority of the build is done I wanted to do one final tally of my guesstimated labor charges.

As of the end of my build I believe I have 1,152 hours invested (could be more as I'm not counting holidays or days I took off from work to work on the car).

This is my formula:

- 24 months (May 2020 to Apr 2022) x 4 weekends per month = 96 weekends.
- 96 weekends x 2 days per weekend = 192 days spent working on the car.
- 192 days x 6 hours a day (average) = 1,152 hours.

I have been averaging $75 an hour for labor. So, if you multiply $75 an hour by 1,152 hours that's $86,400 in labor.

Now, I'm not going to say how much I have invested in my Kindig air filter system, but I will tell you that based on my invoices Kindig's labor rate is $110 per hour.

So, utilizing that amount and "saying" it took them the same amount of hours to build my car this is what it would have cost me if Kindig built my car.

$110 an hour for Kindig labor multiplied by 1,152 build hours would have cost me $126,720 in "labor" alone.......

Me = $86,400 in labor
Kindig = $126,720 in labor

LOL, now I'm not comparing my build level to Kindig's in any way shape or form. This is just a numbers game I'm playing.

When I went on my tour of Kindig's shop the tour guide said the 65 Mustang build and the Ford F100 build where listed at $500,000 or more. That's parts, labor, fabrication and materials.

So, I'm 100% sure there is no way in hell I could afford a Kindig build and $126,720 is not even close to what would be charged in labor for a Kindig build LMAO. I could barely afford a Kindig parts build LOL.

and a shop doing it would have been even worse because they'd probably have two guys on it a lot of times. Just like the electrician we use at work said - having 2 guys rarely make it go twice as fast, realistically more like 1.5.

Black Gold 380R · May 17, 2022

Okay Everyone,

Got back from Dallas late Sunday, but went in the garage yesterday after work to get back at it.

First I got my alternator put back in.

Got it back in and was able to have the alternator shop upgrade to a 1 wire voltage regulator. So, I removed my "exciter" wire. I have a few more things to do before I can fire it back up.