ALL MOTOR BOLT-ON & TUNED Motor failure

[JayVee]

An Internet search of 'AED Tune' will pop this thread. That along will hurt business. Even the current 5 pages is far too much for most to sift thru and read to see what the actual cause of the engine failure is (and it's not even been discovered yet). They will simply see the title, possibly read the first posts, and move on with the information that AED tuned car blew an engine. Thread title does not state '47lb injector car blew engine', or 'Boss IM engine failure'. The tune is ALWAYS #1 on the list of causes. As I said before, guilty until proven innocent.

My living (and therefore my wife/kids as we are a single income family) is made via the internet. Threads/posts affect business, it affects our lives. That sucks for me, but it's true and there is little I can do about it but do my best to make sure I do the best job I can.

How many of your families rely so heavily on the emotions of internet posts/threads?

How is his title misleading? His AED tuned E85 motor blew. Those are facts. he conveyed them.

The cause is unknown still.

my point only... now it would require extensive reading due to all the extra circular activities that were begged and pleaded not to post unless help... but yet... Thank Them... I stated only facts with NO BLAME its true tye car is tuned by you rep: AED but its NOT the blame. I speak english and spanish and I thought my english was presented with upstanding presentation including intro and facts and what is to come. I have no control after that. This is what happens and always will. People just cant keep their fingers off the keyboard and always want to be apart of something they have no idea about. Thanks to: AED, Mastwolf and CPR and anyone else who followed suite. Lots of work ahead and its obvious NO ONE HAS EXPERIENCED THIS SAME ISSUE...

 

[JayVee]

It IS a big deal...

Even if this thread only cost him 2 tunes... that's $900... all because of a thread title. If you don't think that's possible, then you have NO CLUE how the internet works

Anything else u would like to get off your chest??? Any assistance? Do u think it can be a inj? Ecu inj driver? Oil gear....etc... anything else... keep to PMs... period

 

[466roller]

An Internet search of 'AED Tune' will pop this thread. That along will hurt business. Even the current 5 pages is far too much for most to sift thru and read to see what the actual cause of the engine failure is (and it's not even been discovered yet). They will simply see the title, possibly read the first posts, and move on with the information that AED tuned car blew an engine. Thread title does not state '47lb injector car blew engine', or 'Boss IM engine failure'. The tune is ALWAYS #1 on the list of causes. As I said before, guilty until proven innocent.

My living (and therefore my wife/kids as we are a single income family) is made via the internet. Threads/posts affect business, it affects our lives. That sucks for me, but it's true and there is little I can do about it but do my best to make sure I do the best job I can.

How many of your families rely so heavily on the emotions of internet posts/threads?

You've got a good point there. I agree the title of the thread is WRONG. I also think that an "educated potential customer" that sees this thread will read all the available information, realize the FACTS and then contact you for their tune and FOLLOW YOUR DIRECTIONS until the tune is FINALIZED! I would think, THAT'S the customer you want out there with your product. Just my .02

 

[beefcake]

But it's ok for you to jump in a thread about a car you did not tune, seen no logs, and blame the tune.

And on top of that, blame another car we didn't even tune. Even if it's not true and you say it, makes people think.

So, it's ok for you (as a vendor) to take the livelihood from my wife and kids, or Lunds, but not ok for an actual customer to do it to you.

See the irony there. That was the reason I posted in the thread.

I would be happy to go back and get all your posts from the aluminator thread.

So why don't we call a truse (which we did a week before that thread, and then you started again anyway), and be done with it

 

[lovebread]

Still pretty confused why this car was being run hard on a base tune...

 

[Sick_Mustang]

An Internet search of 'AED Tune' will pop this thread. That along will hurt business. Even the current 5 pages is far too much for most to sift thru and read to see what the actual cause of the engine failure is (and it's not even been discovered yet). They will simply see the title, possibly read the first posts, and move on with the information that AED tuned car blew an engine. Thread title does not state '47lb injector car blew engine', or 'Boss IM engine failure'. The tune is ALWAYS #1 on the list of causes. As I said before, guilty until proven innocent.

My living (and therefore my wife/kids as we are a single income family) is made via the internet. Threads/posts affect business, it affects our lives. That sucks for me, but it's true and there is little I can do about it but do my best to make sure I do the best job I can.

How many of your families rely so heavily on the emotions of internet posts/threads?

Come on man. Everyone knows your rep as a tuner and will not go to others. I myself and across an aed blown up thread not long ago, turns out dudes car was fubar before. I still had you tune my car and I'm glad I did.


Furthermore I've seen you say multiple times you prefer a lighter work load of 5 to 10 ars a week. I highly doubt this thread will take away from that......

 

[denali33]

I don't understand he wasn't running a finalized tune and Shaun didn't say to go blasting around on drag strips... wtf?

 

[Need4Speed03]

This past Saturday night I was at Showtime Drag Strip running the 1/8mi getting some seat time working on my 60ft. (as I have been for several weeks since complete...)

First sorry to hear about the motor man, I've been there and it sucks.

Let me ask how many passes did you have with that combo and the base tune you were running? Up until it let loose did you experience anything weird or out of the ordinary?

Obviously the no. 1 piston is messed up...was the car running hot or were you hot lapping at the track? Reason I ask is maybe its possible your motor had very tight ring gaps and the ends butted on the no. 1 cylinder and lifted a ring land causing a chunk to come off the piston. That chunk of piston could have got hammered into the head and that's were the antifreeze out the throttle body was coming from? (prob tapped the plug and closed the gap some). Could be a possibility...heard that scenario from a top tuner.

If an injector failed somehow and the piston has a burned hole through it...where's is the antifreeze coming from? That's what I'm thinking...I don't think you'd have antifreeze coming out like that - just oil?

Was the filter on the JLT? Wonder if the engine somehow ingested something and ended up in the no. 1 cylinder?

Maybe another possibility is a dropped valve? Could have snapped the head off the valve and that ended up hammered into the head?

I don't think its a simple hole in the piston...I think something was in the cylinder (a piece of piston, valve, or foreign object).

Anyway, hope you get it back up and running soon!

 

[yngrshr]

An Internet search of 'AED Tune' will pop this thread. That along will hurt business. Even the current 5 pages is far too much for most to sift thru and read to see what the actual cause of the engine failure is (and it's not even been discovered yet). They will simply see the title, possibly read the first posts, and move on with the information that AED tuned car blew an engine. Thread title does not state '47lb injector car blew engine', or 'Boss IM engine failure'. The tune is ALWAYS #1 on the list of causes. As I said before, guilty until proven innocent.

My living (and therefore my wife/kids as we are a single income family) is made via the internet. Threads/posts affect business, it affects our lives. That sucks for me, but it's true and there is little I can do about it but do my best to make sure I do the best job I can.

How many of your families rely so heavily on the emotions of internet posts/threads?

FWIW, if anyone takes the time to actually read the OP's post, they will see no blame was levied. Frankly, I think it's semi-important to at least disclose the tuner in thread like this. When I was searching for stuff about VMP's tunes I wanted to see the bad with the good (and, like AED, there is more good than bad out there).

So I think more of the blame needs to be levied at the masses who came in here slinging mud at the OP and turning it into a pissing fest. Could the OP have been more specific with his thread? Sure. But the thread is much more negative due to the pissing contest than anything else.

 

[JayVee]

This thread gives me a headache, Ill be watching to hear what collin says.

I don't understand he wasn't running a finalized tune and Shaun didn't say to go blasting around on drag strips... wtf?

First sorry to hear about the motor man, I've been there and it sucks.

Let me ask how many passes did you have with that combo and the base tune you were running? Up until it let loose did you experience anything weird or out of the ordinary?

Obviously the no. 1 piston is messed up...was the car running hot or were you hot lapping at the track? Reason I ask is maybe its possible your motor had very tight ring gaps and the ends butted on the no. 1 cylinder and lifted a ring land causing a chunk to come off the piston. That chunk of piston could have got hammered into the head and that's were the antifreeze out the throttle body was coming from? (prob tapped the plug and closed the gap some). Could be a possibility...heard that scenario from a top tuner.

If an injector failed somehow and the piston has a burned hole through it...where's is the antifreeze coming from? That's what I'm thinking...I don't think you'd have antifreeze coming out like that - just oil?

Was the filter on the JLT? Wonder if the engine somehow ingested something and ended up in the no. 1 cylinder?

Maybe another possibility is a dropped valve? Could have snapped the head off the valve and that ended up hammered into the head?

I don't think its a simple hole in the piston...I think something was in the cylinder (a piece of piston, valve, or foreign object).

Anyway, hope you get it back up and running soon!

FWIW, if anyone takes the time to actually read the OP's post, they will see no blame was levied. Frankly, I think it's semi-important to at least disclose the tuner in thread like this. When I was searching for stuff about VMP's tunes I wanted to see the bad with the good (and, like AED, there is more good than bad out there).

So I think more of the blame needs to be levied at the masses who came in here slinging mud at the OP and turning it into a pissing fest. Could the OP have been more specific with his thread? Sure. But the thread is much more negative due to the pissing contest than anything else.

Its a shame it took 4 pages to calm down with all the crap. Now the thread has lost is bite and I can care less on checking cof what could have been interesting or valuable info to carry or evaluate with everything that needs to be considered or checked.

 

[Sick_Mustang]

First sorry to hear about the motor man, I've been there and it sucks.

Let me ask how many passes did you have with that combo and the base tune you were running? Up until it let loose did you experience anything weird or out of the ordinary?

If an injector failed somehow and the piston has a burned hole through it...where's is the antifreeze coming from? That's what I'm thinking...I don't think you'd have antifreeze coming out like that - just oil?

Was the filter on the JLT? Wonder if the engine somehow ingested something and ended up in the no. 1 cylinder?

Filter was on. Car has been to the track a few times in this manner, sits for the most part as it's not his daily.


All speculation at this point. I'm sure Jayvee will be posting his findings here soon.

A possibility is a blown headgasket during the detonation process, which would obviously allow coolant in.

 

[Need4Speed03]

A possibility is a blown headgasket during the detonation process, which would obviously allow coolant in.

True, didn't think of that...haven't seen any blown head gaskets with these coyote motors but thats a possibility. In order to do that much damage something would need to seriously be off with fueling/timing. With the car being together with that combo for a while and having a few track outings under the belt I'm just leaning towards a mechanical failure at this point.

Anyway, hopefully he finds out what did it...would be interesting to know for sure!

 

[JUIC3D]

Every single big tuner in the industry has lost a motor or 5 with their tune on it. That's just the way it goes, especially when you're doing high volume tunes via mail order. This is not the first AED-tuned car to break and will not be the last. That's the risk you take when you flash the file in the first time, regardless of whose tune is on it.

Let's not forget that bone stock motors break with factory tunes on them so adding parts and modifying the tune to make more power is always going to introduce the possibility of total engine failure. Some tunes are more aggressive than others so it is advised to do your research and see with whom you feel comfortable before rolling the dice on your car.

 

[darreng505]

It IS a big deal...

Even if this thread only cost him 2 tunes... that's $900... all because of a thread title. If you don't think that's possible, then you have NO CLUE how the internet works

First of all, you are a bit quick to write off the tune. Tune's are complicated and fitting them via email to someone's specific car with specific parts its a game of chance. I'll never do it. Most street tunes are good, but get into high RPM, WOT applications and flaws can emerge. So take a step back until the facts are known. It's tough business being in the open market and customers come and go all the time for all kinds of reasons. Gotta sack up and not whine about posts, titles, etc and let facts reign. For every person who decides not to go with AED there are others in line to go with them. This thread has established nothing about the "root" cause of the failure, which we'll probably never know.

 

[mebcop]

First of all, you are a bit quick to write off the tune. Tune's are complicated and fitting them via email to someone's specific car with specific parts its a game of chance. I'll never do it. Most street tunes are good, but get into high RPM, WOT applications and flaws can emerge. So take a step back until the facts are known. It's tough business being in the open market and customers come and go all the time for all kinds of reasons. Gotta sack up and not whine about posts, titles, etc and let facts reign. For every person who decides not to go with AED there are others in line to go with them. This thread has established nothing about the "root" cause of the failure, which we'll probably never know.

You misread my position... I completely agree with the fact that no matter what the cause is, that cause should take the blame... whether it be a part failure or a tune issue. It's funny you tell me to step back until the facts are known...lol That was my whole position. The title insinuated it was AED's fault. That was my whole point. Putting AED Tuned in the title insinuates it was AED's fault. Like Shaun said, did he put "47lb injector engine blown", or "boss manifold engine blown", nope. Seems like the other guys understood my point.

Other than the title, I consider this one of the better described description of events!

 

[JayVee]

Jesus how many boyfriends does shaun have? LOL

Shaun is known across the land as THE MAN! No doubt, and I never doubted that. I thought Shaun would somewhat back that up with me contacting him first for his opinion which led me to make a thread for someone else who has seen this issue. I can not be the first... smh! But it does seem to be completely perplexed and far in between the occurrences.

 

[JayVee]

True, didn't think of that...haven't seen any blown head gaskets with these coyote motors but thats a possibility. In order to do that much damage something would need to seriously be off with fueling/timing. With the car being together with that combo for a while and having a few track outings under the belt I'm just leaning towards a mechanical failure at this point.

Anyway, hopefully he finds out what did it...would be interesting to know for sure!

U an I bud... Smm has been helping diagnose the possibilities (which there are SEVERAL and many...But not 1 cancels the other out) so maybe I can share this possibility with Colin (not that he may not check em all...just saying tho) Thank You

 

[JayVee]

Every single big tuner in the industry has lost a motor or 5 with their tune on it. That's just the way it goes, especially when you're doing high volume tunes via mail order. This is not the first AED-tuned car to break and will not be the last. That's the risk you take when you flash the file in the first time, regardless of whose tune is on it.

Let's not forget that bone stock motors break with factory tunes on them so adding parts and modifying the tune to make more power is always going to introduce the possibility of total engine failure. Some tunes are more aggressive than others so it is advised to do your research and see with whom you feel comfortable before rolling the dice on your car.

well said...and for that, AED is still my choice until FACTS! and 100% evidence say other wise...which I doubt it will. period! Thanks Justin

 

[JayVee]

You misread my position... I completely agree with the fact that no matter what the cause is, that cause should take the blame... whether it be a part failure or a tune issue. It's funny you tell me to step back until the facts are known...lol That was my whole position. The title insinuated it was AED's fault. That was my whole point. Putting AED Tuned in the title insinuates it was AED's fault. Like Shaun said, did he put "47lb injector engine blown", or "boss manifold engine blown", nope. Seems like the other guys understood my point.

Other than the title, I consider this one of the better described description of events!

OPEN THE BOOK AND READ... Not just the cover. Cover titles can be intense or so call "Misleading" grabbing the readers attention...Oh nevermind... I said that already IN MY OPENING INTRO!

 

[JayVee]

Wow, hell of a thread title.
Feels like I'm guilty until proven innocent. Maybe a little more investigation into the cause of the failure before posting?

I'm assuming you were running the E85 tune and not the Gasoline tune by mistake, I have seen this before as there are X3 Firmware versions that the #10 tune slot does not work correctly and loads the tune from the #1 slot. This happened to Blazer707 a few months back. I've also seen SCT Device updater errors where customers name the wrong tune the wrong name and load it incorrectly.
Of course I would have caught this with data logs....

Assuming the proper tune was run, it would take north of 15:1 Air fuel at WOT on E85 to do any sort of damage in an all-motor application. Given 7 good spark plugs and 1 bad, I would have had to command leaner fueling on the #1 cylinder compared to the other 7. Although we do have access to fuel each cylinder differently, that is not something I do, and it would require removing something on the order of 30+% fuel from that 1 cylinder. Same goes for ignition timing but I do not add timing to the #1, and based on the 1 pic I was sent (posted in this thread) it looks to be excessively lean fueling that caused this, not spark.

With E85 you need to remember it absorbs water. Water causes rust. We lost 2 ID2000 injectors from E85 after a customer let the car sit for 6 weeks with E85 in the tank/rails. Injectors like the ID1300's that have stainless internals and specifically designed for E85 would not suffer from rust, but other injectors that are 'compatible' with E85, may rust when water is present in the fuel. I do not know if the LU47 injectors have stainless internals or not. This is why it's always a good idea to store the vehicle with gasoline in the tank/lines rather than E85. Having the injectors flowed (you can have T1 Race Development do it) will show if this is the case here.

IMO what we are looking at is a fuel related failure. Either the injector, the injector harness/wiring, or an injector driver in the ECU. I've seen all 3 cause this kind of failure. Recently we had a Fast System injector harness failure that took out a cylinder in a customers 8 second race car. Intermittent connections at the injector are NO GOOD.

Key here is the other 7 cylinders are fine (based on the spark plugs). That means you can rule out the tune and start focusing on hardware.

If other cylinders look lean as well that would clue me in that the E85 Base tune was likely not being run, which would have been caught via data logs. (Stoich is set to 10.0 in the Base E85 tune I sent, compared to 14.08 for the gasoline tune, running the Gasoline tune would result in 40% lean when run with E85, and the O2 sensors will correct enough to get the car to start up and drive.)

I just now had a chance to go back and read this Shaun. As we discussed, I will and Colin most all will be checking these issues you have pointed out. Especially the E85 present in the tank and possibly the inj. if need be. Unless of course, something mechanically presents its self as the issue. As for the E sitting, It only sits days...not weeks at a time. But hey, I am only absorbing any possibilities. TTYL on any and all findings. Thanks