2021 Explorer ST - starting issue?

[DriftwoodSVT]

Last week our 2021 Explorer ST would not start. When we pushed the ignition button, it would just click fast a few times. It also started to smell like smoke. After work, I tried to jump it, and it would not jump start. I let it sit on a charger over night, and it still would not start. Every time I tried to start it, it felt like it had no battery, lights would flicker and the dash said something about battery saving mode.

Next day I replaced the battery with a new one. It started right up and ran with no issues. 2 days later, it was dead again. Same problem, just clicking.

We had it towed to a Ford Dealer where it sat for 3 days. They finally called yesterday and said the starter was bad, and it would be replaced under warranty.

Maybe I don't understand new vehicles, but what does the starter have to do with the battery? How would replacing the battery get the vehicle to start if the starter was bad? To me, this feels like a charging / alternator problem, not a starter.

We are supposed to pick it up tonight after work. I have a feeling it will be back in the shop soon.

Thanks

 

[03cobra#694]

Yeah, that makes no sense at all. But, who knows with all the electronic crap and these things anymore. My 18 F150 rear defrost doesn't work, heated mirrors do, same button controls both. The auto start/stop stopped working about 1.5 years ago. I searched for a fuse or breaker, nothing I could find. That doesn't bother me though.

 

[MDShelby]

Bad connection in the starter circuit or the starter itself, killed the battery beyond help. New battery would work until it sat long enough to kill it.
A bad battery will cause the some of the craziest symptoms in vehicles these days - because of all the electronics.

 

[JaCobro]

Does it have auto stop/start?
Regardless. Starter is wired straight from the battery, and it’s possible the starter was shorted and causing a draw on the battery.

 

[DriftwoodSVT]

Does it have auto stop/start?
Regardless. Starter is wired straight from the battery, and it’s possible the starter was shorted and causing a draw on the battery.

Yes, it does have auto stop/start.

 

[B7BlownSnake]

These Explorers are very finicky with the battery, but they tend to give you plenty of warning and dash lights is the battery is just getting old. Smelling smoke tells me there is a short or a wiring issue somewhere. I haven't seen any starter or charging system issues on the forums, so you could be patient zero! I would take the new starter and then keep an eye on battery voltage.

I agree with you, this seems like an alternator/charging system issue and not a starter issue, but I hope your dealer techs are good enough to tell the difference. Let us know.

 

[gimmie11s]

Starter solenoid stuck causing massive current draw killing a new battery.

 

[L8APEX]

Bad connection in the starter circuit or the starter itself, killed the battery beyond help. New battery would work until it sat long enough to kill it.
A bad battery will cause the some of the craziest symptoms in vehicles these days - because of all the electronics.

In BMW's you have to program the system when you get a new battery (as well as tell it the size of the battery and if its lead or glass mat if you change from stock as it will over time be more aggressive with the alternator and up the charge on the battery as it ages. They keep the standing charge at around 80% when batteries are new (on agm) and as time and miles rack up, temperature drops etc the alternator kicks on more often and the charge will go a bit higher. It even compares it to how the last batteries did as milage and date of all the battery installs is all saved in the PCM/BCM as well.
It sounds like a mess but it is like having a battery backup running on your pc, all the spikes from the grid are absorbed as the pc runs off the battery and the backup takes the power spikes.
In this case all the control modules get clean power and are less likely to spaz out.

 

[SolarYellow]

Yeah, that makes no sense at all. But, who knows with all the electronic crap and these things anymore. My 18 F150 rear defrost doesn't work, heated mirrors do, same button controls both. The auto start/stop stopped working about 1.5 years ago. I searched for a fuse or breaker, nothing I could find. That doesn't bother me though.

Such a malfunction is a winner. That, IMO, is the worst feature of many new vehicles.

 

[MG0h3]

Starter solenoid stuck causing massive current draw killing a new battery.

Should have been cranking all the time then?

Sounds more like it was a bad connection or failed cable near the battery, which can cause smoke.

Maybe disturbing it during the battery change corrected the issue momentarily.


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[gimmie11s]

Should have been cranking all the time then?



Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

Not if the battery didn't have enough power to turn over the motor. Also the solenoid could have been faulty opening/closing at random.

Who knows.. definitely could be faulty wiring too.

 

[MG0h3]

Not if the battery didn't have enough power to turn over the motor. Also the solenoid could have been faulty opening/closing at random.

Who knows.. definitely could be faulty wiring too.

What doesn’t add up is a battery change cured the problem, yet it’s diagnosed as a bad starter…

Solenoids can just click and not deliver current to the starter if they fail and then let the smoke out.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[Crimson2v]

In BMW's you have to program the system when you get a new battery (as well as tell it the size of the battery and if its lead or glass mat if you change from stock as it will over time be more aggressive with the alternator and up the charge on the battery as it ages. They keep the standing charge at around 80% when batteries are new (on agm) and as time and miles rack up, temperature drops etc the alternator kicks on more often and the charge will go a bit higher. It even compares it to how the last batteries did as milage and date of all the battery installs is all saved in the PCM/BCM as well.
It sounds like a mess but it is like having a battery backup running on your pc, all the spikes from the grid are absorbed as the pc runs off the battery and the backup takes the power spikes.
In this case all the control modules get clean power and are less likely to spaz out.

You have to do the same with newer Fords when a new battery is installed. You have to program the BMS.

 

[Crimson2v]

Last week our 2021 Explorer ST would not start. When we pushed the ignition button, it would just click fast a few times. It also started to smell like smoke. After work, I tried to jump it, and it would not jump start. I let it sit on a charger over night, and it still would not start. Every time I tried to start it, it felt like it had no battery, lights would flicker and the dash said something about battery saving mode.

Next day I replaced the battery with a new one. It started right up and ran with no issues. 2 days later, it was dead again. Same problem, just clicking.

We had it towed to a Ford Dealer where it sat for 3 days. They finally called yesterday and said the starter was bad, and it would be replaced under warranty.

Maybe I don't understand new vehicles, but what does the starter have to do with the battery? How would replacing the battery get the vehicle to start if the starter was bad? To me, this feels like a charging / alternator problem, not a starter.

We are supposed to pick it up tonight after work. I have a feeling it will be back in the shop soon.

Thanks

Sounds like you had a battery go bad due to a drain. I highly doubt the drain was the starter.

 

[03cobra#694]

You have to program the BMS.

What's that?

 

[Lambeau]

What's that?

"Battery management system (BMS) is technology dedicated to the oversight of a battery pack, which is an assembly of battery cells, electrically organized in a row x column matrix configuration to enable delivery of targeted range of voltage and current for a duration of time against expected load scenarios."

Not to jack the thread, but I think the BMS is one of the reasons why I constantly hear clicking coming from my Mustang while it sits in the garage. It doesn't go into what's called a "deep sleep" because it's also talking to the FOBs inside my house.

From what my simpleton mind can understand, the BMS is monitoring the stuff listed above, and other systems talk to the FOBs that are within range. That's one reason why FOB batteries don't last as long today as older ones (ie 2012 Escape).

One way to stop that communication, is to store your FOBs that are within talking range of the vehicle in a faraday cage. That way, the BMS, and other systems, cannot find the FOB.

 

[Blk04L]

Such a malfunction is a winner. That, IMO, is the worst feature of many new vehicles.

Best part about having a weak battery in my current truck was that it basically eliminated that stupid feature.

Had to replace the battery and now I have to deal with turning off the Auto-start every time now.

 

[Lambeau]

BMS:

 

[Crimson2v]

What's that?

Battery monitor system.

 

[DriftwoodSVT]

We got it back and all is good so far. They said the starter assembly was the problem, but still seems odd to me.

The tech said they had to remove the transmission cross brace as well as a catalytic converter to get to the starter. Sounds like a pain.