2001 Cobra Build Questions 5.0 Stroker

[01slo vert]

i have a 2001 Cobra and am rebuilding the motor... trans is coming shortly after. im not sure yet as too if i want to go with the MMR 4.6L kit(400900RA) or the 5.0L stroker kit (400900SRA). i want to get some outside opinions on there products and some power numbers people got with both the 4.6 and the 5.0.

some information about the car:

2001Cobra Convertable
has 76,... miles on it
All stock except O/R X-Pipe
has a slight rod knock that appears only when warm

as for parts ive looked up and priced out heres the list (all from MMR)
4.6L MMR Street Mod 900 Rotating assembly
400900RA $1749.99
OR
5.0L MMR STROKER Street Mod 900S 5.0 Rotating assembly
400900SRA $2149.99

MMR Street/Racing Oil Pump 400350 $189.99
Do i need an oil pump?

Gasket Sets 400009B $399.99

ARP Headstud kit 400020 $289.99

MMR Racing Main Bolt kit for aluminum Blocks 4.6
400150 $109.99
ARP mainstud kit for all ALUMINUM blocks
400050 $369.99
might have to ask MMR themselves but anyone know the difference between the ARP and MMR kits are?


PLEASE INFORM ME IF IM MISSING ANYTHING ELSE!




now my questions start.

1) would the only price difference be the difference between the two kits?

2) how much of a hp/tq difference would there be between the two kits? would it actually be worth it to go with the 5.0 over the 4.6

3) eventually (next year) i want to a 2.1L kennebell on it around 12+/-lbs, what would be a good compression ratio? (not gonna be DD but its gonna get driven a good amount)

4) as for boring the block, ill know when the motors apart on if i have to but if theres no damage would i be safe to hone the block and call it a day?

5) ive seen a few of the "block/side bolts" just curious as to what these do and if i would need to pick them up?

6) as for timing chains, most likely depends on how they look when the motors apart but should i consider replacing them with the whole kit?

7) am i gonna be able to run the stock fuel system with both kits all motor with out having any problems? tune? if not what would be recommended to upgrade to for a sufficent amount of fuel

i know theres gonna be more i have to ask but thats all i have on my mind for the moment. once the tax return comes back the car comes apart with pictures the whole way.
thanks :beer:

also how do i upload pictures into the thread. thanks.

 

[quikcobra]

Do alot of research on what company your looking to spend your hard earned money with, which company will stand behind their word, and or sale, Then a company that treats you as a apreciated customer, not a credit card. I had seen the nice guy before the payment then the switch after with my current build, It was a nasty situation.

ARP does make side bolts now, Those would be the ones I would go with along with head studs, main studs, cam and crank bolts. Your timing chains and guides should be good, If you have the plastic tensioners ill swap those out, The FRPP oil pump is a good piece other then that I would go with triangle speed shops, I think dagostinoracing.com had a Fel-pro gasket kit in the 100's.

Seems like your still on the fence completely with the build, So search around and see if you can make up your mind on the 4.6 or 5.0

 

[01slo vert]

yes im still very on the fense with which kit i want to go with. id like to go with the 5.0 figuring ill get a little more bottom end grunt but idk if itll be worth the extra cash. im still pretty new to the whole cobra crowd coming from being a vw fan, where else would be good places to look for kits? thanks for all the input.

also who are you using, and how are your experiences with them so far? i could really use as much input and information as possible and all of it will be greatly appricated.

 

[quikcobra]

My build has been tricky since my goals have changed a few times. I'll rathe rnot speak of the company I have been shafted by but it is a local Ford shop here in Orlando. As of now I ended up finding someone local that has treated me great and has helped lead me in the right direction. Then before them I have had good experiences from a few others.

Now the guy who owns http://www.excessiveracing.com/ is taking care of my turbo, helped me with my build and so on. His Name is Jordan. I couldnt ask for better customer service... And he will not cut corners.

Then I have bought stuff from ModMax - 4.6 and 5.4 Modular Experts And also spoke with a great sales person even months later when I misplaced my invoice I got a email within a day with a copy.

Then the other I have had no issues buying stuff is Performance Parts - Ford Mustang - Cobra - Dodge Viper - Chevy Corvette - C6 - LS1 The had alot in stock that I needed.

Like I said I have dealt with ALOT of company's since my build has changed, and has been over a 3 year span. But give them a call above talk with them and see what you think. If you speak to Jordan tell him Mickey sent you to him and bust his chops a bit, He is a endless well of mod motor knowledge... But I could be judging on other factors, I have been in sales for a number of years and tend to read alot further into stuff.

 

[01slo vert]

thanks i greatly appricate it. im gonna be making some phone calls tomorrow to a few different compnaies to get more information. hopefully ill get some more input from other people to see what they say. no matter what happens im gonna keep this thread updated every step of the way.

 

[quikcobra]

And hunt down a good machine shop, Just make sure they know their stuff....

 

[01slo vert]

thanks thats another thing im on the hunt for. as for compression ratio,
1) how would i go about calculating it
2) what would be a good C/R?
i want to go with atleast 9.5 but im leaning more towards 10:1
im on a few sites (summit, jegs...) now pricing parts out and im unsure of all the actual dimensions to figure out how much of a dish i need to get the right C/R.
once again thanks, i really appricate all the help

 

[skidad62]

I went with an MMR 1000 shortblock in 4.6 very pleased. Tell them you are a SVTP member B4 ordering and ask for specials.

Your CR target sounds high to me if you are going S/C later. I went 9.22:1 but we can only get 91 octane here

 

[quikcobra]

There was a article in a magizine I seen over on mod fords. About compression ratio. They built the same setup on a 8.5:1 compression engine then on a 10.0:1 I think and seen a huge difference in the high compression engine. I went high and seems that higher compression is the newer thing.

I would be research on every company theres many threads about MMR, Lenthal, and so on. Excessive is more on theturboforums.com then here. But go check that out. The best way is to get a buys opinion, All new parts are pretty and shinny but not always long lasting, Ill rather have a engine that lasts then look pretty. Everyone says they build the best, have the best prices, ect... but most of the time just calling any shop to buy parts any shop will price match and beat.

 

[na svt]

There was a article in a magizine I seen over on mod fords. About compression ratio. They built the same setup on a 8.5:1 compression engine then on a 10.0:1 I think and seen a huge difference in the high compression engine. I went high and seems that higher compression is the newer thing.

I've seen a 50rwhp drop along with a reduction of 40ft lbs when lowering compression from 10:1 to 8.5:1.

 

[IUP99snake]

I've seen a 50rwhp drop along with a reduction of 40ft lbs when lowering compression from 10:1 to 8.5:1.

Now that tuners are becoming more educated and experienced with the modular motors, they are realizing that they can tolerate more compression than their pushrod counterparts. Compression is especially important for a centri build.

I'm really glad my longblock has 10.3:1 compression, even with 10LBS of boost, it makes much better power down low.

 

[97desertCobra]

For a centri car 9.5.1 would be the lowest I would go. For a PD car like what the OP is planning for 9.1 is a decent compression ratio. You might be able to get away with 9.5.1 and a PD blower depending on the fuel you have available, probabaly wouldn't be too wise with 91 pump.

 

[01slo vert]

i live in new york so 93 is available everywhere and i think theres a couple places around to get either 100 or 103 but ive been looking around and i have seen more and more people talking about running a little higher compression and recieving a noticable difference in power and still maintaining reliability so thats why im starting to lean more towards 10:1. im looking at the Kenne Bell 2.1L kit but i really dont want to go anything lower then 9:1 expecially since i dont plan on running more then 16 pounds of boost and even thats pushing it for me. im looking to make a very reliable car that ill be able to put a good amount of miles on and not have to worry about. also when i put the blower on id also add a meth kit to raise the octane but also allow the motor to run cooler. but back to the whole main thing here... what kind of difference in power would i be seeing in the 5.0L over the 4.6L? is it actually worth spending the couple extra bucks for the .4L or can i still make around the same amount with a 4.6L? thank you for all the input and i really appricate all the help. another thing is does anyone know of a good machine shop in the new york area?
:beer:
also is there any other forums, maybe one that relates to cobras in the tristate area? im trying to inform myself as much as possible before i make the final decision on weather i go with the 4.6 or the 5.0. once again thank you and all the information is MUCH appricated

 

[IUP99snake]

If you're going to be rebuilding the motor anyways, it's worth it to spend the extra money for the stroker crank while you've got it all apart. Sure, you have to get the matching pistons and rods, but those won't cost much more than regular forged internals. You'll probably spend an extra 800 bucks on a stroker crank.

Now, if you weren't planning on tearing into the motor, or if you already have forged internals, then it makes much less sense to go with a stroker rebuild.

When it comes time for me to rebuild my motor, I'm definitely going with a stroker setup. But for the time being, it doesn't make much sense.

With a positive displacement blower, I'd say 9.5:1 is the highest I'd go... with meth injection, 10:1 is the highest I'd go.

Like I said before, I have 10.3:1 compression with 10LBS of boost, and it runs like an animal. Lots of extra power down low until the boost starts to build up. Plus, a little bit better mileage. My tune is very conservative with timing in the higher RPM's to eliminate detonation with the boost + high compression.I don't have forged internals, so I can't really run any more boost than I'm already running.

For low boost, the extra compression is great because you need much less boost to make a certain power level. If you plan on adding gobs of boost, beyond 15 PSI, then it makes sense to drop the compression a little bit because the extra boost will make up for the slight loss in power.

 

[01slo vert]

thanks i appricate it. i am tearing the whole motor down because it has a knock coming from the bottom end and i am going to be going with full forged internals. i just have to figure out who im gonna be purchasing all the parts from. ive been searching around and got prices from a couple different places now and they all seem to be in the same ball park. im gonna see if i piece it all together from a place like Summit or Jegs to see if theres a price difference then to just buy the whole kit from MMR and such. MMR and Mod Max are around the same but MMR's kit seems to come with a little bit better quality stuff. Excessive Motorsports is a little more and doesnt come with the bearings if i recall correctly. i did not search Leathal yet but is there anywhere else i should look? i want to have all my research done by the end of march because i want to have the car all said and done by summer time. as far as ford racing parts, what parts can i get away with using by them since i work for a ford dealer and get a discount on them. im not cheaping out on this build just want to try and save a couple bucks here and there when i can. once again thanks for all the information

 

[01slo vert]

so this morning, i contacted Mustang Magic and talked with Joe, who i must say is a very cool and easy to talk to guy, and explained what i want to do with the car. i told him that i was looking into the 5.0 stroker from MMR and he said that MMR makes very good stuff but that he would also recommend contacting Paschal Performance. He stated theyve been using both companies with out any problem just Paschal's motors come a little more "dressed up." So after i got off the phone with Joe i call Paschal and not sure who i talked to but they were just as cool and easy to talk to. Long story short im waiting to hear back from a guy by the name of Paul From Paschal Performance on more information and pricing but by the way it looks, i might just being going with a full short block. i know the steel block is heavier but is there any other disadvantages of running a steel block instead of an aluminum block since the aluminum is going to be a decent amount more. once again thank you for all the input and advise.

 

[01yellercobra]

Now that tuners are becoming more educated and experienced with the modular motors, they are realizing that they can tolerate more compression than their pushrod counterparts. Compression is especially important for a centri build.

I'm really glad my longblock has 10.3:1 compression, even with 10LBS of boost, it makes much better power down low.

I had my old block looked at by a machine shop that I'm pretty sure has never dealt with mod motors. They build some bad ass carb'd motors though. When I told the guy what compression ratio and boost level I was going for he freaked out. He said there's no way that can be done on pump gas. Maybe I should take my car up for him to check out.

OP- The block is cast iron, not steel. And it's about 80lbs heavier. Can they use your old block?

 

[Saleen313]

If you're trying to save where you can you should just use your block and only buy the rotating assembly. If you not going stroker then you can reuse your crank. Have you checked to see if you have a teskid block already. I have one in my 01 and its dated in Oct. Either way you go I'd use your block and have a machine shop look it over.

 

[01slo vert]

im not sure what block i have and the car is under the cover so when i get the chance ill take a look and see. whats the easiest way to tell if i have a teskid? when i talked to mustang magic they said there machine shop they use usually charges around $1500 to bore it .020" over and have it fully machined and ready to go. im going to get a few more prices from a couple shops by me and see what they say but for the 5.0 kit with all hardware from ARP and oilpump from MMR is around $3000 plus machine will put me in the $4/4500 ball park and then down time for all this. i called MMR and got an estimate shipped to my door for $4300 with all ARP hardware and oil pump installed with 10:1 C/R. i should have asked to write me a quote for all the parts for the rotating assembly and necessary hardware :shrug: , but i can always make that phone call again. Paul from Paschal Performance got back to me and with the same setup (5.0 stroker, ARP hardware, & oilpump installed) said it would be around $4500 shipped to my door. alls i know right now is im pretty stuck on the 5.0 stroker with 10:1 compression, weather its with my block or a full short block. :rockon:

 

[01yellercobra]

You will notice the weight difference if you go iron. I went with the iron block because I'm not baller enough for the aluminum Boss block. The first indication things were a little heavier was when the car settled on the legs for the engine hoist. What oil pump are they including? It's only 4 bolts to put a new one on.