18psi Whipple vs 18psi Hellion

[TRBO VNM]

Will the larger single kit still alow for a/c? I can understand his position as his kit does ship on time which is a miracle in the turbo industry and minimal mods to get it to work. I just believe a single turbo kit to really compete against even the larger twins can be done. CPE's initial test with the GT47-80 showed promise and spool up time wasn't bad either but unfortunately no one has that kit now, perhaps Hellion can come out with a large single like that.

hellion kit retains all factory accessories. just gets rid of the heaton crap.

also, CPE's didn't spool that great at all. looking at the graphs the power didn't come on till way up in the rpm range from the graphs that were posted. if you look at them and the power it made, it was pretty high up. Unforunately, we never really got to see what the kit would do. it had promise. you just won't see a large single hit big power or boost at low rpm with these motors. I would assume if it was possible it would have already been done and that would be the kit everyone would have.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have no doubt that there are other things out there or redesign things that could be done to make more, but the way it is looked at is it is a bolt on kit in a matter of a short time period and you are making 800+ rwhp. John said he would have no problem designing a twin turbo kit or even offering a larger single, but some of it will be more for race application. The single turbo kit he offers doesn't only offer a direct bolt on, but it offers the customer to compete in NMRA and FFW events.

Jack, sorry, didn't think you were saying anything about being low, I just knew there was something more to the number, just didn't know what.

For a bolt on, mass produced kit the Hellion is perfect just the way it is. The problem with most headers in turbo applications is the heat loss associated with the thin walled tubing.

I plan on porting my OEM manifolds and having them thermal coated. I also plan to get the entire hotside piping and the turbo hotside coated.

Ashley

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

hellion kit retains all factory accessories. just gets rid of the heaton crap.

also, CPE's didn't spool that great at all. looking at the graphs the power didn't come on till way up in the rpm range from the graphs that were posted. if you look at them and the power it made, it was pretty high up. Unforunately, we never really got to see what the kit would do. it had promise. you just won't see a large single hit big power or boost at low rpm with these motors. I would assume if it was possible it would have already been done and that would be the kit everyone would have.

That gt47 will be useless on ANY 4.6 street driven car. You wont hit full boost until 5000 RPM or so. It is a poor choice for anything but a purpose bilt race car.

There is some give and take associated with turbo cars and their setup!! If you want 1000 WHP its not going to have strong low-mid power. If you want 20 PSI @ 3000 RPM it is not going to make 1000 WHP.

 

[jackers]

hellion kit retains all factory accessories. just gets rid of the heaton crap.

also, CPE's didn't spool that great at all. looking at the graphs the power didn't come on till way up in the rpm range from the graphs that were posted. if you look at them and the power it made, it was pretty high up. Unforunately, we never really got to see what the kit would do. it had promise. you just won't see a large single hit big power or boost at low rpm with these motors. I would assume if it was possible it would have already been done and that would be the kit everyone would have.

Greg's car had a lot of electrical problems and they didn't even start the pull till over 4500 rpm's. That is why it didn't look like it came on fast, because they started the pull late. I thought the spool was fast as hell and I am sure that kit would put down some awsome numbers. Don't forget that car also had an automatic and that will make your curve look lower too. I still think that kit is pretty damn impressive.

 

[jackers]

That gt47 will be useless on ANY 4.6 street driven car. You wont hit full boost until 5000 RPM or so. It is a poor choice for anything but a purpose bilt race car.

What do you base that on?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What do you base that on?

Being able to read a compressor map.

 

[jackers]

Why don't you ask Mike Roush about being able to read a compressor map?

Or how about Paulo, he seems to think one would do just fine.

Or how about Wiz, he shouldn't have a problem with his T-80 either on the street.

 

[jackers]

Oh, Randy Haywood seems to think it would be ok too. I KNOW he can read a compressor map.

My car with an auto would have no problems spooling a T-88 on the street.

 

[TRBO VNM]

Greg's car had a lot of electrical problems and they didn't even start the pull till over 4500 rpm's. That is why it didn't look like it came on fast, because they started the pull late. I thought the spool was fast as hell and I am sure that kit would put down some awsome numbers. Don't forget that car also had an automatic and that will make your curve look lower too. I still think that kit is pretty damn impressive.

I wasn't talking about Greg's car. I was talking about Eric's car. And any of these cars will spool fast when you hit it at 4500. Greg never had a chance to really get it dialed in, nor did Eric, so like I said we never really know what it would do, but what was posted from Eric's car showed very low power until higher rpm ranges. And Eric's was manual. The kit looked very good, I never said it didn't, but we have yet to see it perform and not sure if we ever will. we talked about this on the phone a while ago.

and why are you jumping on Ashley's case?

I haven't seen Paulo's kit completed successfully and haven't seen anything from Randy on these cars, so until I do I will go with what I know and have seen proven on these cars.

and I pm'ed you about some other info that you were not aware of, nor is anyone else really.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Why don't you ask Mike Roush about being able to read a compressor map?

Or how about Paulo, he seems to think one would do just fine.

Or how about Wiz, he shouldn't have a problem with his T-80 either on the street.

You are missing the point. I'm not talking about a dyno queen car or a drag setup. I am talking about performance on the street and driveability.

Of course the GT47s and T-80s will WORK on whatever you put them on. They will be laggy in city driving, and not make big power unless you are at WOT above 5K

If you have something bigger than 5 liters and it is built then yes I would run something like that on the street, and you would have pretty good results.

I would rather have full spool at 3.5-4K and sacrafice a little top end by going with a smaller turbo.

The smaller turbos (T-76) are much better suited to the Hellion's target demographic which is STREET cars that occasionally go to the track. Most of the people that will get a Hellion kit won't have built motors etc. They will be buying the Hellion kit instead of buying Whipples or KBs to up the power of their car.

The Hellion is not a "race" turbo kit, so it is hard to compare it to a kit that is designed with drag racing in mind.

Ashley

 

[jackers]

I asked him a simple question and got a smart ass, one sentence reply.

 

[kino]

Ya'll don't your sensitivities in an uproar over turbo sizing. This does not need to get ugly over something like that. One thing we all need to remember is that there are a ton of turbos to choose from and to get the right one for you. Some people would rather have full boost 3500-4000 rpm and make 700-800 rwhp while others would consider 4000-4500 rpm suitable for street duty (and push out 1000 rwhp). Its an age old argument with turbos. Yes turbos will require a compromise but how much DEPENDS on what the person putting the money down wants.

Now like I said some people want full boost very early on while some of us would trade that off for higher top end. Its just a matter of preference. To each their own I say.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I asked him a simple question and got a smart ass, one sentence reply.

Ask a simple question; get a simple answer.

 

[TRBO VNM]

I asked him a simple question and got a smart ass, one sentence reply.

hmm, ok. I didn't see it as smart ass, but sometimes the internet can be portrayed differently to everyone. seemed like you asked a simple question and he gave a simple answer.

oh well, like Kino said, to each their own. none of these kits are just race kits. I don't even think you can compete in any class in FFW or NMRA with a twin turbo.

 

[TRBO VNM]

Ask a simple question; get a simple answer.

beat me to it...just as I was posting.

hey, can we get a lesson on reading compressor maps? I would like to learn. hell, I have never looked at one. might as well learn something from all of this, right? start a new thread about it or something?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

beat me to it...just as I was posting.

hey, can we get a lesson on reading compressor maps? I would like to learn. hell, I have never looked at one. might as well learn something from all of this, right? start a new thread about it or something?

Good idea. There are a couple threads I would like to see in relation to the topics in this thread.

1. Reading compressor maps and turbo selection thread

2. A "Spool Registry" thread for all the turbo terminators. This would be a listing of:
a. Turbo kit
b. Engine spec (if not stock)
c. Turbo spec
d. Target boost
e. Throw it in 4th at 2000 RPM and go WOT. At what RPM do you reach your target boost?

This will help lots of people see what these turbo cars are really doing in the real world.

I can recommend a couple books to pick up from Amazon.com that will give you an excellent knowledge base for understanding of the design and physics behind forced induction applications.

Maximum boost and Supercharged by Corky Bell. Max boost is geared towards turbo cars, Supercharged is pretty obvious

Also, Forced Induction Performance Tuning by A. Graham Bell.

The basic info in each is the same, but each book has its specific focus.

Ashley

 

[TRBO VNM]

Good idea. There are a couple threads I would like to see in relation to the topics in this thread.

1. Reading compressor maps and turbo selection thread

2. A "Spool Registry" thread for all the turbo terminators. This would be a listing of:
a. Turbo kit
b. Engine spec (if not stock)
c. Turbo spec
d. Target boost
e. Throw it in 4th at 2000 RPM and go WOT. At what RPM do you reach your target boost?

This will help lots of people see what these turbo cars are really doing in the real world.

I can recommend a couple books to pick up from Amazon.com that will give you an excellent knowledge base for understanding of the design and physics behind forced induction applications.

Maximum boost and Supercharged by Corky Bell. Max boost is geared towards turbo cars, Supercharged is pretty obvious

Also, Forced Induction Performance Tuning by A. Graham Bell.

The basic info in each is the same, but each book has its specific focus.

Ashley

thanks ashley, might have to pick up a couple of those books.

BTW, you never called me back, hell I don't even remember what I called for. either something about tuning info or something else.

 

[kino]

I put a thread up with some links for reading compressor maps and links to them. I think by reading the maps and coming to a decision what some one wants to do, that is really the only solution to finding the "right" turbo combination.

I dont' have Corky's book here but just about everything in that book can be read at the aforementioned links.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

thanks ashley, might have to pick up a couple of those books.

BTW, you never called me back, hell I don't even remember what I called for. either something about tuning info or something else.

Crap.. you are right. It was about your 2 step setup. I will give you a call after the holiday.

 

[TRBO VNM]

Crap.. you are right. It was about your 2 step setup. I will give you a call after the holiday.

yes, that was it...now gotta remember my question....lol

have a safe holiday.