Can you post up a larger version of this...it seems a little small on my 3200x1800 resolution screen.
They do everything big in Texas, right Jimmy?
oke:
03-04 cobra vs. C6 Z06 on road course
- Thread starter Exit Speed
- Start date
They do everything big in Texas, right Jimmy?
oke:
Having driven both cars extensively; My modified Cobra and a virtually stock C6 Z-06, both on track and autocross, I can say without possibility of doubt of any kind that given equal drivers and tire compound, the Z cannot be touched. I still feel that my Cobra was one of the better set up cars in the suspension department, and the lap times at the places I have been just cannot compare.
Sorry to the ford fans here, but the Cobra is just too heavy and has just too much weight over the nose for whatever suspension you put under it to be nearly as effective as the Corvette. I think you need to go as far as installing an aluminum block and trim the weight considerably to be able to stay with a Z driven by an equal driver on the same tire.
That said.....and sorry to the corvette fans here....90% of corvette drivers at DE events are waxers...and not willing to drive cars this expensive at intensity levels that assume lots and lots of risk. Even I can run most of these guys down like dogs in the street with a 100 hp Miata. It means nothing.
What it all means is that it doesn't matter who you are running down and who is running you down, the better, more experienced driver is going to be quicker almost totally independent of the car they are driving.
Emphasis on "almost".
Sorry to the ford fans here, but the Cobra is just too heavy and has just too much weight over the nose for whatever suspension you put under it to be nearly as effective as the Corvette. I think you need to go as far as installing an aluminum block and trim the weight considerably to be able to stay with a Z driven by an equal driver on the same tire.
That said.....and sorry to the corvette fans here....90% of corvette drivers at DE events are waxers...and not willing to drive cars this expensive at intensity levels that assume lots and lots of risk. Even I can run most of these guys down like dogs in the street with a 100 hp Miata. It means nothing.
What it all means is that it doesn't matter who you are running down and who is running you down, the better, more experienced driver is going to be quicker almost totally independent of the car they are driving.
Emphasis on "almost".
If we check the TT times in our local track :
TTS 1:16.711 11/7/2010 Walead Hessami Chevrolet Corvette Z06
TTR 1:23.068 11/5/2011 Chris BeLieu Ford Mustang GT
TTU 1:14.439 11/7/2010 Phil Grabow Subaru WRX STI
TTA 1:17.882 11/6/2011 Brian Bowers Chevrolet Corvette Z06
TTB 1:20.242 4/18/2010 Eric Wong BMW M3
TTC 1:21.420 11/6/2011 DJ Fitzpatrick BMW M3
TTD 1:24.530 11/6/2011 Paul Alexandre Porsche Boxster
TTE 1:26.230 4/9/2011 Vincent Conte Mazda Miata
TTF 1:30.689 11/6/2010 Jason Stephens BMW 325is
AI 1:20.835 6/19/2011 Beau Dunnivant Ford Mustang
AIX 1:18.514 8/20/2011 George Winkler Ford Mustang FR500S
What you need is Michael Schumacher driving an 03/04 Cobra
TTS 1:16.711 11/7/2010 Walead Hessami Chevrolet Corvette Z06
TTR 1:23.068 11/5/2011 Chris BeLieu Ford Mustang GT
TTU 1:14.439 11/7/2010 Phil Grabow Subaru WRX STI
TTA 1:17.882 11/6/2011 Brian Bowers Chevrolet Corvette Z06
TTB 1:20.242 4/18/2010 Eric Wong BMW M3
TTC 1:21.420 11/6/2011 DJ Fitzpatrick BMW M3
TTD 1:24.530 11/6/2011 Paul Alexandre Porsche Boxster
TTE 1:26.230 4/9/2011 Vincent Conte Mazda Miata
TTF 1:30.689 11/6/2010 Jason Stephens BMW 325is
AI 1:20.835 6/19/2011 Beau Dunnivant Ford Mustang
AIX 1:18.514 8/20/2011 George Winkler Ford Mustang FR500S
What you need is Michael Schumacher driving an 03/04 Cobra
And you'll notice that Chris, Brian, DJ and Paul set the lap records last November.
It was chilly that day, not great traction, but times were falling like spandex on a Walmart shopper reaching for the lower shelf. A couple friends got PB's, and I did my second best ever.
In fact, almost all those times were set in March or November. Heat is the enemy of lap records.
It was chilly that day, not great traction, but times were falling like spandex on a Walmart shopper reaching for the lower shelf. A couple friends got PB's, and I did my second best ever.
In fact, almost all those times were set in March or November. Heat is the enemy of lap records.
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Even if you could get an 03-04 Cobra to hang with a C6Z, you probably won't do it for an entire track session (20mins or longer). There's a reason you don't see hardly any (I've seen none thus far) do the sprint races that we have in Nasa. FI Cobra's just don't fare well in open track environments. That was a huge reason I went to a corvette.
As far as something like Time Trials where you're just trying to get one flying lap, with a really good driver... one could put a good time down in a cobra, but it would still need to be heavily modded to come close to a C6Z. Shocks, springs, swaybars, Hoosier's, good brake pads, high temp brake fluid, weight reduction, corner balanced and good allignment, etc.
As far as something like Time Trials where you're just trying to get one flying lap, with a really good driver... one could put a good time down in a cobra, but it would still need to be heavily modded to come close to a C6Z. Shocks, springs, swaybars, Hoosier's, good brake pads, high temp brake fluid, weight reduction, corner balanced and good allignment, etc.
...and also the enemy of the 03-04 Cobra as it were.
I know of only three cobra's that don't worry about the heat, they all my hood on them.
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So true :fm:
If I could just have a race car, I'd like a Vette as much as anything.
But there are just soooo many of them on the street around here that I would feel like I'm driving a Camry.
A Camry that kicks ass, but you know what I mean.
But there are just soooo many of them on the street around here that I would feel like I'm driving a Camry.
A Camry that kicks ass, but you know what I mean.
Everyone has made some very good points here. But Troy made the best one.
Do not judge your driving by how many Z06s you pass in the lower DE levels. Most Corvette owners are waxers or wannabe's and I could give them hell in my 01 Cobra.
The best judge of capabilities is looking at the Time Trial records as Michael pointed out. That is a true case of apples to apples as well as far as car capabilities because of the parity in modifications allowed within each class. The top drivers in each class are just that: top drivers.
The only 03 Cobra I have ever encountered in Time Trials is the guy at VIR with the maroon one. Frank???
-Kevin
Do not judge your driving by how many Z06s you pass in the lower DE levels. Most Corvette owners are waxers or wannabe's and I could give them hell in my 01 Cobra.
The best judge of capabilities is looking at the Time Trial records as Michael pointed out. That is a true case of apples to apples as well as far as car capabilities because of the parity in modifications allowed within each class. The top drivers in each class are just that: top drivers.
The only 03 Cobra I have ever encountered in Time Trials is the guy at VIR with the maroon one. Frank???
-Kevin
i'll say this, the fr500c and the boss 302r and 302S are very impressive against corvettes in NASA ST2. these cars in world challenge qualified at 1:30 and raced at 1:31. they are heavier than they would have to be for ST2. good drivers of course.
my car at road atlanta this month was 30 or 40whp off a full ST2 spec without any aero and not on new tires. i ran consistant 1:37's with most of the ST2 field in the 35's. of course that was with me driving it very conservatively. if you watch my video you can see the time left on the table.
now...these are not street cars, but i can afford the replacement parts and the body parts on a mustang a lot easier than a corvette. and as my wife would say i'd look silly racing with my firesuit unzipped to the chest with a big gold chain hanging there. :coolman:
I don't worry about heat in my stock pullied car, but I don't mind only passing typical Corvette drivers and getting murdered by veterans. I also don't track summertime.
I track all year round including in the summer which gets as hot as 110* without going into limp mode. I pass alot more vettes then i get passed by. I now have the whipple so we'll see what temps i'll be at now.
You know what to expect with a Mustang, as with a Corvette, though it would seem like the Corvettes might just be a little better than the sum of their parts...
But...the only car that truly impressed me to drive on track, aside from the E30 M3, was a street prepared level Honda S2000. With a good suspension set up, the typical mods and a little aero, that car can just frickin rip laps, easily matching or besting the street prepared corvette lap times at the places I go to. it took a little work, and you need to be comfy with the tail happiness that the S2K is known for, but man....get it right and you can be ballin..
But...the only car that truly impressed me to drive on track, aside from the E30 M3, was a street prepared level Honda S2000. With a good suspension set up, the typical mods and a little aero, that car can just frickin rip laps, easily matching or besting the street prepared corvette lap times at the places I go to. it took a little work, and you need to be comfy with the tail happiness that the S2K is known for, but man....get it right and you can be ballin..
i had a 2001 Honda S2000 for a daily driver. Its been my favorite street car.
ive wanted to race one for a long time. i wouldnt give up my mustang for it, i dont think.
as it is now my race rig hauler dually is my driver. i am not sure i am stupid enough to get a second race car and still drive the dually.
ive wanted to race one for a long time. i wouldnt give up my mustang for it, i dont think.
as it is now my race rig hauler dually is my driver. i am not sure i am stupid enough to get a second race car and still drive the dually.
Kevin, what you say is all true. But you're forgetting Chris Henderson (44). He's been running his '03 in TTA for 3 years now. And while he got the MidAtlantic title for the last two years, it's more through consistency than outright speed. If you, Justin, or Brian show up, his Cobra is really no competition, even though he does drive the hell out of it. He's paying for that right now. His motor has scored a cylinder and done some bottom end damage. It's being rebuilt over the winter.
Chris is who I was thinking of, not sure where I got Frank. :shrug:
-kevin
-kevin
To Rob's point about fenders and whatnot, while the Vette plastic is more expensive than a Mustang, being plastic helps in a way I did not realize. You can hit something with the plastic and while it may crack, it usually goes back into place. Throw some color matching tape on it and you are good to go. You can't do that with a wrinkled metal fender.
-Kevin
-Kevin
That's what them big Band-aid's are for.:banana:
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