well neither of them are 5", so that was more my point haha. ^^ Thats why i posted those calculators, as curious as i am about your airflow needs i'm not quite THAT curious haha. Plus i dont really have the specs for your build so it would all be estimation to an extent. It will be worth more power, how much more is the thing though.
600 rwhp NA on e85 out of the question?
- Thread starter BLK2012GT
- Start date
well neither of them are 5", so that was more my point haha. ^^ Thats why i posted those calculators, as curious as i am about your airflow needs i'm not quite THAT curious haha. Plus i dont really have the specs for your build so it would all be estimation to an extent. It will be worth more power, how much more is the thing though.
I thought the one Rev auto sells is a 5" air tube?
Complete mod list ? M6 or A6 ? Rotating mass weight reduction is vital at that power level.
Not sure of your head/cam setup. I know Adam@Rev auto's personal car put down 522 WHP with regrinds stock heads on pump e85. I still think unless you're doing a high compression 5.2L build, Comp Stage 3 cam's with FULL VCT is the ticket to making the most power with these cars.
Stage 1/2 ported heads
Comp Stage 3's
12:5:1 compression
Meziere EWP
Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel
Lightweight Aluminum(or carbon fiber) Driveshaft
Lightened Rotors on rear
Lightened rear wheels
CJ/SCJ w/ 5" CAI
1 7/8 Headers O/R X Dumped
FTW Purple
I could see 600+/- WHP
Pump e85 580ish
Obviously, anything short of an AED/Rev Auto tune is going to make these numbers fall short.
3.90's, big and littles, good air, good driver low low 10's should be possible!
Not sure of your head/cam setup. I know Adam@Rev auto's personal car put down 522 WHP with regrinds stock heads on pump e85. I still think unless you're doing a high compression 5.2L build, Comp Stage 3 cam's with FULL VCT is the ticket to making the most power with these cars.
Stage 1/2 ported heads
Comp Stage 3's
12:5:1 compression
Meziere EWP
Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel
Lightweight Aluminum(or carbon fiber) Driveshaft
Lightened Rotors on rear
Lightened rear wheels
CJ/SCJ w/ 5" CAI
1 7/8 Headers O/R X Dumped
FTW Purple
I could see 600+/- WHP
Pump e85 580ish
Obviously, anything short of an AED/Rev Auto tune is going to make these numbers fall short.
3.90's, big and littles, good air, good driver low low 10's should be possible!
Is your CJ manifold ported/cleaned up? I know that's not a 75whp difference, but it would help you get there.
600rwhp seems difficult with an 8,000 rpm limit. Is there an ecu platform that can take the coyote beyond 8k?
I love how you single out 2 tuners and rule all other tuners in-superior. Just because a tuner isn't on the forum and doesn't mass tune these cars doesn't mean there isn't another tuner out there just as good as the two you mentioned.
600rwhp is excellent..
But even 525 Is stout. More important any track times? Car should be in the 10s as is...or at least close to it
But even 525 Is stout. More important any track times? Car should be in the 10s as is...or at least close to it
To my knowlwdge No other tuners can do comp stage 3's and retain full VCT. Adam and Shaun are the ones that pushed the limits of making that possible. Everyone else just locks out VCT. Thus resulting in a major loss of power down low.
Sure they may be able to tune them with lockouts and make equal or similar peak numbers. However, let's look at the power at 3500 RPM. Sure if you're building a dyno queen it's all fine and good, however if you're building a car that you want to actually perform, power under the curve is vital in not only drivability, but 1/4 times and certain roll race situations.
In virtually every cam swap, you trade low for upper, or upper for low. That isn't the case with comp stage 3s when tuned properly, you get the best of both worlds including stock drivability.
This isn't meant to step on any other tuners toes, like I said I've yet to hear of any one else attempt this and show a graph of their results.
It's doable, at least close to it. Copperhead platform is tapped out at 8100 rpm. I'm sure theirs a standalone system that can achieve this. However I don't see Cam CJ setups peaking over 5800-6200 rpm. They generally just maintain with minimal drop off till 7800+/- So, in my mind more rpm isn't the key per se. 8k is already zing ing pretty good for a V8.
Sorry for misunderstanding what you meant. That does make sense
well that really depends on the size of the V8 - for a 5.0L street car, yes it's a good deal of RPM
recall the older F1 engines (yes a extreme example) running 10,000 - 18,000 rpm (depending on era) or a current Sprint Cup car at 9500 all day long on the superspeedways.
I think you're also basing that off the most popular cam choice, the Comp stage 3's, but the peak HP is dependant on several things; one of which is the cam grind. A more agressive cam could push that peak out further, at the likely sacrifice of low end of course. Making 600 whp is actually not the hard part here, its doing it without making the car a purpose built "racecar," and trying to maintain some sense of driveability.
Just curious what are you doing with a fully built N/A Coyote at 3500rpm @ WOT.... stump pulling?
Also it's not that Rev/AED are the only one's who figured out how to run Comp 3's with VCT. It's just that it's there choice to run Comp 3's with VCT. For us it depends on the build and application.
Really any big power N/A coyote will be more then streetable. I could have driven this car any day of the week.
[youtube_browser]X1dP4B7DVcQ[/youtube_browser]
Also it's not that Rev/AED are the only one's who figured out how to run Comp 3's with VCT. It's just that it's there choice to run Comp 3's with VCT. For us it depends on the build and application.
Really any big power N/A coyote will be more then streetable. I could have driven this car any day of the week.
[youtube_browser]X1dP4B7DVcQ[/youtube_browser]
Launching @ track with shit for prep.
Roll Racing on the highway up a gear for the sake of traction.
stock like drivability really.
No doubt the linked car is "streetable" hell aren't all your cars "streetable"?
In my mind streetable and stock like drivability are two different things, however I don't have any 1st hand experience with either setup. I just know what fellow members have posted in regards to results. OP seems as though stock drivability is important to him, as is making 600WHP, with more street duty and occasional track duty.
Are you saying you'd have no problem DD'ing the above car on a consistent basis? Are you saying that the above car would have no problem hooking on a highway from a 30-40 roll from a 5800-6000 RPM hit? I doubt it based on the 4.88 final drive gear. I'm making 450ish whp and on certain pavements are sketchy for me? another 100-150 WHP i'm sure traction is going to be a major concern.
Maybe we're arguing the same thing based upon your "build and application" statement but in my mind, a car that's used as a toy on the street needs to be setup totally different than a car setup to dead hook at the track. Which based on what I've seen and data provided by several members, the Comp Stage 3 setup with VCT is the most well rounded setup you can do on an N/A car. If you have other results that prove better than it's news to me, and i'll gladly stand corrected.
It all comes down to the age old test of traction, you can make all the power in the world, it's useless if you can't plant it. Starting a gear or in some cases two gears higher than you "nomally" would, is one of the most successful things you can do on the street. The Track is a different story, if prep is good and you're rolling on Stiff Sidewall Slicks.
Last edited:
I had stage 3 cams and didn't have lockouts and wasn't tuned by either of those shops.
Oh and my car is a M6.
great info in this thread good luck reaching your goal
I am doing one for a open track car now that should be around that 600 number. 14.1, e85,ported boss heads, all the good stuff. I do not see this set up being anywhere near street friendly though.
Need huge head flow - not that Boss heads are bad they are just not capable of the 340+ cfm @512" valve lift.
Looking at the E85 setup by enginelabs that had Livernois max effort stage 3 heads and huge 240/246 @ 0.050" cam (vs 212/232 cobra jet), Mahle 12.5:1 CJ pistons, Oliver light weight rods, 94mm bore, etc.. it only made about 625 at the flywheel. it was de-squeezed down to 12:1. multiply that by 0.9 for a manual trans car and you end up with 562hp at the wheels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-NZIOIhUiU
Made peak power at 7900 rpm and going above that didn't help. so any manual transmission ECU should work.. I don't think the auto trans ECU will support above 7800 rpm.
I say wait for the new coyote heads to come out, or better.. wait for the new GT350 NA engine and get those heads. Bigger valves, larger port volume from the factory should mean Livernois, MMR, JPC, etc.. can get even more flow numbers. You already have the pinnacle intake since the next gen coyote has horrible low hood clearance.
Some of the V8 supercar guys said they could not match the full race Nascar - Windsor type platform HP with a coyote even w ported heads and super high compression. Those motors hit 9700rpm all day. They said it was head flow and cam lift limited unlike custom race Windsor heads.
Looking at the E85 setup by enginelabs that had Livernois max effort stage 3 heads and huge 240/246 @ 0.050" cam (vs 212/232 cobra jet), Mahle 12.5:1 CJ pistons, Oliver light weight rods, 94mm bore, etc.. it only made about 625 at the flywheel. it was de-squeezed down to 12:1. multiply that by 0.9 for a manual trans car and you end up with 562hp at the wheels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-NZIOIhUiU
Made peak power at 7900 rpm and going above that didn't help. so any manual transmission ECU should work.. I don't think the auto trans ECU will support above 7800 rpm.
I say wait for the new coyote heads to come out, or better.. wait for the new GT350 NA engine and get those heads. Bigger valves, larger port volume from the factory should mean Livernois, MMR, JPC, etc.. can get even more flow numbers. You already have the pinnacle intake since the next gen coyote has horrible low hood clearance.
Some of the V8 supercar guys said they could not match the full race Nascar - Windsor type platform HP with a coyote even w ported heads and super high compression. Those motors hit 9700rpm all day. They said it was head flow and cam lift limited unlike custom race Windsor heads.
Last edited:
600 all motor hp can be attained easily with this short block from JPC though costly cubic inches will get the job done:
http://www.jpcracing.com/coyote-stroker-shortblock-351-cubic-inches/
http://www.jpcracing.com/coyote-stroker-shortblock-351-cubic-inches/
Users who are viewing this thread
