The Ecoboost Disappointment

[Softballer77]

No one is arguing either of you two that the v8 is either better sounding or more efficient than the ecoboost( similar exhaust and mods of course). The OP stated he could never see why ford would put a 4 cylinder in a mustang again and goes as far as to compare today's tech with tech from the '70's. I'm personally waiting for the v8 halo car to purchase in a few years. All we are trying to say is:

-this isn't the 70's
-Ford has to do this to meet strict standards to bring us the high hp v8 cars
-not all 4 cylinders are made by honda, let alone turbo ones( in the USA at least)
-there's a difference between a full 3 inch cat less exhaust turbo 4 and a stock B16 honda motor with stock exhaust and a can on the tip.

Thanks for telling me everything I already know. And yes, there is a difference between a "full 3 inch cat less exhaust turbo 4 and a stock B16 Honda motor with stock exhaust and a can on the tip". But I don't like the sound of a " full 3 inch cat less exhaust turbo 4" either. They both don't sound as good to me. You like it better, that's fine with me. I merely state that I don't. Hence the WHOLLLEEE reason of me starting this thread. I don't like the sound of any aftermarket exhaust on ANY 4 cylinder, which is why I will NOT be liking the 4 cylinder Mustang. End of story. And not you, or any other lover of that sound will be able to convince me other wise. Geez Louise.

The V8 mustang is the most modded vehicle in the world. This was told to me by FORD when my car was on in the Mustangs Through Time Garage display for the 50th in Vegas this year. Trust me... the 4cylinders WON'T be taking over that crown any time soon. But I'm sure I'm going to have to hear those 4 cylinders with aftermarket exhausts, no matter which way you say they will sound. And I won't like it, because it's strictly my preference.

 

[03Steve]

[video=youtube;FDlGmWHwnRA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDlGmWHwnRA[/video]


Our local STL 4cyl Mustang. It's fast!

 

[Softballer77]

It sounds like the OP thought he was going to come in here and rally everyone together to complain about a 4cyl Mustang but now he's upset because people actually brought up valid points in favor of it. You're on the wrong forum OP if you think people are going to jump in on your V8 circle jerk. I love Ford's V8 engines just as much as anyone, and it's all I want right now, but I'm all for alternate engine platforms.

You are incorrect sir. Didn't come here to rally. Just came to state my opinion. Mission accomplished. BTW I'm right here...you can talk to me. Sounds like your the one hoping for the rallying.

 

[Softballer77]

Well, (yawnnnn), this is beginning to get a bit old and boring, so I'll let you gents have fun with it all. It's the end of my day and I'm tired.

Maybe I'll dream of 4 cylinder turbo Corvettes...:wf:

Goodnight!

 

[NightTrain1584]

If I recall mr shelby also played a huge part in the hot hatch segment in the early mid eighties with the dodge omni GLH and Daytona shelby cars. Those were turbo 4s also. So the bottom line is fast and fun can be in any car with any motor. I sopose the OP hates the sound of a fine Italian V12 also. Some people just dont know how to broaden their horizons. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

 

[Bob Cosby]

PLEASE don't tell me the stereotypical Shelby crowd has the same "my stuff doesn't stink because I own a [insert car here] as the stereotypical Corvette crowd.

Based on two more vocal Shelby owners here.....it sure looks like it. Sad. I like Mustangs...period. I prefer N/A V8 Mustangs, but have no issues with any other Mustang. Nor do I feel the need to whine about what one *might* sound like (though I guess I do feel the need to whine about the whining...hmmm....)

Oh....and I own a Corvette.....am I sick or what?

PS....did a Shelby owner also say something about Shelby designing powerful, LIGHT cars? Have you had your car on the scale lately? Oh that's right....Shelby had nothing to do with the latest GT500. It can be as fat as it wants. Nevermind.

 

[Clemson]

PLEASE don't tell me the stereotypical Shelby crowd has the same "must stuff doesn't stink because I own a [insert car here] as the stereotypical Corvette crowd.

Based on two more vocal Shelby owners here.....it sure looks like it. Sad. I like Mustangs...period. I prefer N/A V8 Mustangs, but have no issues with any other Mustang. Nor do I feel the need to whine about what one *might* sound like (though I guess I do feel the need to whine about the whining...hmmm....)

Oh....and I own a Corvette.....am I sick or what?

PS....did a Shelby owner also say something about Shelby designing powerful, LIGHT cars? Have you had your car on the scale lately? Oh that's right....Shelby had nothing to do with the latest GT500. It can be as fat as it wants. Nevermind.

Shut up you! yea....that's all I got.....tired of this argument. lol. I don't like euro-fied mustangs or 4-banger turbos, or douchified sounding exhaust. Sue me. It probably stems from my loathing of the sheer ignorance that is the ricer crowd. Gee bolt a giant wing and fart can to moms civic and its suddenly a race car! Meh, another argument for another thread. It is what it is.

 

[Bob Cosby]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we were all ignorant at one time. Some still are. Others are simply closed-minded.

I laugh at ricers (be they imports or domestic). But I see it as entertainment, and nothing more. 'Loathing' them for spending their money in a way I'd never even remotely consider is rather....I don't know.....ignorant?

Ok, off to call my lawyer so I can start the lawsuit process.....

 

[HudsonFalcon]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we were all ignorant at one time. Some still are. Others are simply closed-minded.

I laugh at ricers (be they imports or domestic). But I see it as entertainment, and nothing more. 'Loathing' them for spending their money in a way I'd never even remotely consider is rather....I don't know.....ignorant?

QFT. One of the reason I sold my Evo and bought a Cobra was because of the ricer scene. I could barely drive the car without every Honda with a fart can chasing me down and revving the engine. I yearned for a more mature crowd I would say. The first day I drove the Cobra home some young sideways hat wearing punk in a Mustang revved his engine at me. I sighed heavily and had my epiphany.

 

[04svtsnke]

Thanks for telling me everything I already know. And yes, there is a difference between a "full 3 inch cat less exhaust turbo 4 and a stock B16 Honda motor with stock exhaust and a can on the tip". But I don't like the sound of a " full 3 inch cat less exhaust turbo 4" either. They both don't sound as good to me. You like it better, that's fine with me. I merely state that I don't. Hence the WHOLLLEEE reason of me starting this thread. I don't like the sound of any aftermarket exhaust on ANY 4 cylinder, which is why I will NOT be liking the 4 cylinder Mustang. End of story. And not you, or any other lover of that sound will be able to convince me other wise. Geez Louise.

The V8 mustang is the most modded vehicle in the world. This was told to me by FORD when my car was on in the Mustangs Through Time Garage display for the 50th in Vegas this year. Trust me... the 4cylinders WON'T be taking over that crown any time soon. But I'm sure I'm going to have to hear those 4 cylinders with aftermarket exhausts, no matter which way you say they will sound. And I won't like it, because it's strictly my preference.

No is refuting your preference. You didn't just state your preference in the original post but actually out the ecoboost down as if it's a pos and it doesn't deserve to be in a mustang. It's already been( and done right with the svo). I prefer the v8 and its sound and ease to make power with. I'm only stating what everyone else( sans Clemson guy) is trying to tell you and that's to keep an open mind and stop being so bullheaded and think outside of the box; the car isn't even out yet.

Shut up you! yea....that's all I got.....tired of this argument. lol. I don't like euro-fied mustangs or 4-banger turbos, or douchified sounding exhaust. Sue me. It probably stems from my loathing of the sheer ignorance that is the ricer crowd. Gee bolt a giant wing and fart can to moms civic and its suddenly a race car! Meh, another argument for another thread. It is what it is.

I loathe ricers as well. I don't understand how you figure the ecoboost stang will somehow magically turn into cheap '90's Hondas with wings and autozone scoops attached to them....

 

[Bingo13]

SVOs...so they sold millions of those heh? Hey, they had their place, but they were a very special, limited production run car.

I for one have never owned a 4 cylinder Mustang, and I won't buy one next year. If it's performance you want, then the GT will beat it. I think we all know that. You don't buy the 4 cylinder if you are serious about winging one around a track, track pack or not. (besides the fact that I think it will be one of the largest mass produced platforms size and weight-wise to hold a 4 cylinder).

I bought a 4-cylinder to wing around the track and to date, not a single GT500 has stayed with me. Of course I spend most of my time in the '03 but it is fun to spank the V8 guys every once in a while to keep them honest. Nobody believes a 4-cylinder is still in the car, especially the way it sounds but the engine was built by Huber and let me tell you when full boost hits in a 2900lb car with close to 500rwhp, you feel it more so than that pig of a GT500 you are driving. It is all good, at least we are comparing Mustangs. Speaking of selling millions, umm, did the GT500 sell millions or was it a very limited special production car.

 

[BigDan]

I loathe ricers as well. I don't understand how you figure the ecoboost stang will somehow magically turn into cheap '90's Hondas with wings and autozone scoops attached to them....

+1

This 2.3L 4 cylinder Mustang runs strong with its stock block, stock crank, iron head and a junkyard turbo.
[youtube_browser]Uf1ShwOousI[/youtube_browser]

 

[TheVikingRL]

My 2c worth...

Most 2.3t Mustangs don't run like Huber's or Stingers cars and very few people have the knowledge to make them run hard. But that's half the fun, any idiot can make big power on a Shelby or Coyote motor. No one even gets exited about it anymore unless you have 1000+hp. But guaranteed the first person to run 10's or even 11's on a 2015 with the 2.3 Ecoboost will be in a magazine. It just something different and a challenge. Plus it will likely handle better, be cheaper to insure and get better mileage for those who care. That said, I agree there certainly isn't much more American than a big V8 sounding muscle car. And if I didn't own one I would miss it. But the sound of a turbo spooling through a free flowing exhaust & intake still sounds better than most 6cyl's I hear. Even with a turbo, most GN's and GTR's sound like shit.

I can't quite figure out how the 2.3 makes sense in the 2015 lineup. It will certainly have more performance potential vs. the 6 for most people. But I would have been happier with a bigger 2.5 or 2.7 and about 350hp/torque, and less weight on the nose. At least that would seem like a proper upgrade vs. the 6. Initial reports make it sound a little too sterile and subdued for an upgrade engine.

The Mustang SVO did make sense back in its day. Unfortunately it was expensive (for a Mustang), gas got cheap and Ford never marketed it well. But it would absolutely run circles around a 5.0 on any road course or autocross, was just as fast and got better mileage. It probably handled better than any Mustang built up until 2005. And unlike a NA 4cyl car it definitely had a soul, and the respect of most 5.0 owners back in the day. Perhaps just not to some of today's Shelby nut-swingers who just drive in a straight line, only on Sundays when the sun is out

 

[04svtsnke]

My 2c worth...

Most 2.3t Mustangs don't run like Huber's or Stingers cars and very few people have the knowledge to make them run hard. But that's half the fun, any idiot can make big power on a Shelby or Coyote motor. No one even gets exited about it anymore unless you have 1000+hp. But guaranteed the first person to run 10's or even 11's on a 2015 with the 2.3 Ecoboost will be in a magazine. It just something different and a challenge. Plus it will likely handle better, be cheaper to insure and get better mileage for those who care. That said, I agree there certainly isn't much more American than a big V8 sounding muscle car. And if I didn't own one I would miss it. But the sound of a turbo spooling through a free flowing exhaust & intake still sounds better than most 6cyl's I hear. Even with a turbo, most GN's and GTR's sound like shit.

I can't quite figure out how the 2.3 makes sense in the 2015 lineup. It will certainly have more performance potential vs. the 6 for most people. But I would have been happier with a bigger 2.5 or 2.7 and about 350hp/torque, and less weight on the nose. At least that would seem like a proper upgrade vs. the 6. Initial reports make it sound a little too sterile and subdued for an upgrade engine.

The Mustang SVO did make sense back in its day. Unfortunately it was expensive (for a Mustang), gas got cheap and Ford never marketed it well. But it would absolutely run circles around a 5.0 on any road course or autocross, was just as fast and got better mileage. It probably handled better than any Mustang built up until 2005. And unlike a NA 4cyl car it definitely had a soul, and the respect of most 5.0 owners back in the day. Perhaps just not to some of today's Shelby nut-swingers who just drive in a straight line, only on Sundays when the sun is out

Strong post and very spot on. I'd say ford is detuning this thing. 400 shouldn't be a problem at all and there will be turbo upgrades available. Intake, tune, and a TBE should yield very good gains throughout the entire powerband. I'm very interested to see how strong these motors are.

 

[mjohns930]

This whole thread is about the sound of a V8 versus that of a four cylinder car. Wonder if SoftBaller77 likes the sound of flat plane V8s like in the 360/430 Ferraris? With the rumors floating around about a flat plane Coyote based engine, that's how the next top Mustang (GT350?) may sound. And that sounds nothing like an American V8.

 

[Voltwings]

Strong post and very spot on. I'd say ford is detuning this thing. 400 shouldn't be a problem at all and there will be turbo upgrades available. Intake, tune, and a TBE should yield very good gains throughout the entire powerband. I'm very interested to see how strong these motors are.

I think 400 may be a bit of a stretch on the stock turbo for a few reasons, namely the gear choices offered with the car.

Lets take the Evo X for example, that stock turbo flows about 48 lbs / min, basically the same size (or flow rate if you will) as a Garrett 3071r. That car comes with a 4.56 rear gear stock to overcome any sort of "lag" that turbo may offer, because your typical driver isn't going to want "lag." Now, the Ecoboost is going to be offered with a 3.31 or optional 3.55 gear. This leads me to believe it will be a slightly more small/medium sized turbo, simply because the longer gears will have to be offset somehow to offer quick(er) spool. I know i'm a broken record with the mazdaspeed3's, but i knew that platform inside and out. Their stock K04 turbo flows around 29 lbs/min, and was good for right around 290-300 on 93, and 315-320 on E85 with your basic bolt ons. Most heavily modified stock turbo cars were running 330-345 whp, and i tuned the record holding car at 375 whp / 456 wtq (on a built motor). We pulled that turbo soon after making the record pull, and even with healthy amounts of pre-turbo methanol injection there were hot spots all over the blades... that turbo would not have survived long at those levels. To bring this whole rant full circle, most Evo X cars with e85 were seeing right around 400 whp (remember AWD) on their stock turbo.

So thats around where 29 lb/min and 48 lb/min puts us ... With the integrated exhaust manifold into the head, i really wouldn't expect much more than a mid 30's lb/min turbo, or around 340-380 whp give or take with flow mods and fueling options. Roughly 1 lb/min is good for about 10 whp, but what the engine is able to make with timing / compression / other tuning options can change those numbers on top of what the turbo itself is physically capable of flowing... Really puts things in kind of a grey area, but i think expecting high numbers on the stock turbo with the gear choices offered isn't going to happen.

 

[HEMI LOL]

COMPLETELY AGREE! There will be a large tuner (ricer) faction among the mustang crowd now and that makes me sick to my stomach. Bad enough Ford decided it necessary to cater to the European crowd in the first place.

this Cro-Magnon-man thinking is sad. Go stand next to this guy if you want the mustang dead. we don't live in 1969. the worlds economy is fragile, the oil wars push the price of crude sky high. we live in 1975 more so. be glad we even have V8 mustangs...hell anything the way our government is going be glad there sports cars of any kind.

Ford and everyone else is being FORCED into maximum efficiency. an EB mustang was coming a long time ago, if this has blindsided you that is sad.

a turbo four cylinder mustang making 300+ hp and probably being a mid 13sec car with a 5 flat 0-60 and getting 30mpg is pretty damn cool. and the fact that with 60trim the EB stangs will be hurting a lot of the "MERICA V8" crowds feelings. as was mentioned above, the sole reason we have V8 mustangs are because of v6 and now I4 mustangs.


a four cylinder mustang that is quick is less offensive to me than every loud slow ass 2v that races around town...when in all reality a new camry would probably bend it over.

 

[04svtsnke]

I think 400 may be a bit of a stretch on the stock turbo for a few reasons, namely the gear choices offered with the car.

Lets take the Evo X for example, that stock turbo flows about 48 lbs / min, basically the same size (or flow rate if you will) as a Garrett 3071r. That car comes with a 4.56 rear gear stock to overcome any sort of "lag" that turbo may offer, because your typical driver isn't going to want "lag." Now, the Ecoboost is going to be offered with a 3.31 or optional 3.55 gear. This leads me to believe it will be a slightly more small/medium sized turbo, simply because the longer gears will have to be offset somehow to offer quick(er) spool. I know i'm a broken record with the mazdaspeed3's, but i knew that platform inside and out. Their stock K04 turbo flows around 29 lbs/min, and was good for right around 290-300 on 93, and 315-320 on E85 with your basic bolt ons. Most heavily modified stock turbo cars were running 330-345 whp, and i tuned the record holding car at 375 whp / 456 wtq (on a built motor). We pulled that turbo soon after making the record pull, and even with healthy amounts of pre-turbo methanol injection there were hot spots all over the blades... that turbo would not have survived long at those levels. To bring this whole rant full circle, most Evo X cars with e85 were seeing right around 400 whp (remember AWD) on their stock turbo.

So thats around where 29 lb/min and 48 lb/min puts us ... With the integrated exhaust manifold into the head, i really wouldn't expect much more than a mid 30's lb/min turbo, or around 340-380 whp give or take with flow mods and fueling options. Roughly 1 lb/min is good for about 10 whp, but what the engine is able to make with timing / compression / other tuning options can change those numbers on top of what the turbo itself is physically capable of flowing... Really puts things in kind of a grey area, but i think expecting high numbers on the stock turbo with the gear choices offered isn't going to happen.

Your assement is exactly how I was thinking) just not as in depth. When I say 400 hp, I meant crank horsepower. I'd assume 330-350 won't be out of the question on the stock turbo.

 

[SID297]

I'm betting there will be a lot of disappointed 3v owners within 6 months of the 2.3T being released.

 

[CaDDy]

I'm betting there will be a lot of disappointed 3v owners within 6 months of the 2.3T being released.

Sir, my hopes went up in flames long before the Eco-boost announcement. They were incinerated by a 300 hp v6 mustang.