Post up when u had a stock car, not a tuned car. Your out of luck on a tune.
Engine CARNAGE...#8... 5L KryPoNITE
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To whom is this directed? With the exception of a spoiler and some axle-backs, my car is stock.
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May have been posted, but who tuned yours?
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It is not global on these cars. It can be changed cylinder by cylinder. The suspect is that the knock sensors cannot see #8 as easily as the others, therefore it's the first to knock and not have timing pulled f a knock sensor is desensitized. That's why I'm so interested to see a stock tuned car with this issue.
I'm definitely interested in what this is too, and have been watching your thread. There seem to be a few different ticks happening and different things make them louder and quieter on each car it seems. I highly doubt it's the #8 piston failure though hehe.
Any tuner on here or anywhere for that matter, will not alter individual cylinder table for shits and giggles. The table adjustments are minor and global. A little more timing and a little less fuel.
That's not at all what has been happening. Even Lethal Performance had been altering knock sensor sensitivity, and posted up in this very forum that they have since started tuning using the OEM knock sensor sensitivity settings.
The theory behind it was to trust the tuning and not let the computer step in harshly, thus maximizing hp and torque even in sub-optimal running conditions.
The problem though is that these aren't motors that are running 9.5:1 compression and there's room to play.
Static and dynamic compression ratios on these cars are very high for the type of fuel we have here. Certainly the aluminum heads help dissipate heat and their stiffness allows for some cushion, but it's still 11:1. If valve timing events are off, if you get a tank of poor fuel etc you've got much less wiggle room.
The factory programming takes these in to account, which is one of the reasons you can run lower octane fuel on a factory tuned car. The aftermarket tuning requires good fuel and high octane fuels.
i agree a 100% good post
so whats the story ive read this whole thread and it really doesnt seem like there is a definitive answer to what is causing this. is this an early build date issue on the 11s or is it more widespread? or is it a tuning issue? my car was built 3/11 and im not to worried about it when i do start modding the car but it def has my interest peaked.
Me too. Best explanation I've seen yet. Wish I could put stuff into words lol
In summary. There have been a few cars with tunes that have lost #8. It is cracked lands and no melting. Appears to be timing and not fuel. The tunes that this happened to have had the knock sensors desensitized. These computers rely on them more than others (see above post by torch10th). It seems that #8 is the weakest link. There are rumors of stock cars losing #8 but no proof yet that I can find. Since, tuners are using factory sensitivity. No cars seen with tunes yet that i can find with factory knock sensitivity. It looks as though most have used the sct base file as a starting point, but I not sure about that. Lots of other issues have popped up in these threads, but only seen two people come in and say they have the blown #8's so it appears to be a very limited issue.
Without too many details, that seems to be the gist of it.
Without too many details, that seems to be the gist of it.
Definitely post back the details after you get your car back from the dealer. Did they actually deny your warranty claim, or did you have to pay for partial or full repairs. Did you make you sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement in return for fixing your car under warranty, etc...
We want details and facts please.
Definitely taking CAI + Tune off my list and just gonna upgrade to 3.73s and some nice cosmetic changes and run like that till the next gen comes out and get one of those. Or start to save now for a nice down payment on a next gen GT500
I don't think I would really be afraid of it. You just can't do it half assed on these cars. The engine run close to the ragged edge and there's no room for Joe Bob and his shade-tree tuning.
We're also still VERY early in the learning curve on these things. How many Terminators were melting pistons with tunes on them early on in their run? How many of them are doing it now?
Tuning will catch up and the major players will figure out what is working and what isn't. Remember that even though it's a game of you play you pay, none of the tuners want to be associated with bad tunes that destroy engines.
EDIT: I was just thinking about this a little more and it occurs to me that definitely the issues people are having seem to be stemming from tunes that simply use the SCT base files. The problem with that is I think a lot of the smaller tuners are trying to treat these engines like the old 4.6's. For instance, a common tuning practice with the 99/01 Cobra's were to simply turn the knock sensors off because they could be triggered by things such as wheel hop, or a rough road etc. THis worked for those engines because of the total timing and static compression ratio they ran at.
You can't do that with these engines.
That's also why you're seeing the failures not on high hp boosted applications, but on simply CAI/Exhaust tunes. People don't spend the money on a proper tune and just load a base file.
Give it some time and I think you'll find you can have some fun with these.
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great way to put it into perspective! i was trying to figure out how ford was pushing 9psi through their warrantied whipple kits rated at 624hp and not having issues. what your saying makes alot of sense.
Here is a simple solution and is what I will be going with.
FRPP tune + k&n air filter
No issues, warranty still intact
FRPP tune + k&n air filter
No issues, warranty still intact
Don't forget all of the 2011 and 2012 Stage 3 Roush(TVS Supercharged), and people running them aftermarket. They are running ~460rwhp(540hp advertised) through the same short block with Roush's tune.
Just one small correction, the 624hp isn't warrantied, but they do offer the 525hp FRPP kit with warranty.
I don't think I've seen a report of either kit losing #8 with the warrantied tunes.
Granted, this doesn't mean that there aren't some defective 5.0s out there. There is a legitimate chance that none of them ended up with blowers or as Roush cars.
Right. When you look at what's happening in a broad sense, it's pretty easy to decipher it is in fact poor tuning. You could get away with poor tuning on the old 4.6's without hurting them. They had a lot of wiggle room. WOT operation was completely table based and so it was much easier.
Everything is real time on these cars. WOT throttle is tuned via wideband o2 sensors, knock sensors etc. It's not as simple as just updating the MAF tables for the correct cold air anymore.
While I don't think mail order tuning is out of the question, I wouldn't recommend doing it from anybody but a reputable shop that has actually put the time in to developing their tunes on shop cars. Not some table that SCT or Diablo provided.
Companies like Steeda who have technology share programs with Ford are probably going to be a good bet. I'd also look at a tune from John Lund since he has a good working relationship with Ford as far as I've heard.
This thread has finally turned into useful discussion about how to prevent failures and not finger pointing and crying.
Roush blowers will probably still void your factory warranty on the motor. However, roush says thy will warranty your car (parts only! No labor) for 3yr from original purchase date of car or 36k miles, assuming it is proven the blower caused a problem. Roush themselves stated that there have been two warranty claims. One was a custom tune, therefore warranty denied (understandable, wasn't used with tier calibration). He didn't say what broke. Other was a rOd problem. Didn't say what outcome was. Ive been researching this closely as I will prolly go TVS route, but I'm Not counting on warranty. I'd rather spend the 2k$ to rebuild it myself than pay a dealership to pull and tear apart and have both warranties denied.
The FRPP 525 kit is only warrantied for 12 month 12k miles if installed by a dealership (roush can be installed by an ASE certified tech).
The FRPP tuner and filter may be eligible for some sort of warranty but I cannot find any information regarding weather your factory warranty stays in place or not. You can bank that it must be installed by a dealership. If anyone knows where this information is, please post it up.
Roush blowers will probably still void your factory warranty on the motor. However, roush says thy will warranty your car (parts only! No labor) for 3yr from original purchase date of car or 36k miles, assuming it is proven the blower caused a problem. Roush themselves stated that there have been two warranty claims. One was a custom tune, therefore warranty denied (understandable, wasn't used with tier calibration). He didn't say what broke. Other was a rOd problem. Didn't say what outcome was. Ive been researching this closely as I will prolly go TVS route, but I'm Not counting on warranty. I'd rather spend the 2k$ to rebuild it myself than pay a dealership to pull and tear apart and have both warranties denied.
The FRPP 525 kit is only warrantied for 12 month 12k miles if installed by a dealership (roush can be installed by an ASE certified tech).
The FRPP tuner and filter may be eligible for some sort of warranty but I cannot find any information regarding weather your factory warranty stays in place or not. You can bank that it must be installed by a dealership. If anyone knows where this information is, please post it up.
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