ZL1 vs 2013 shelby

[slocum1946]

to b or not to b --- we are better off with to b

 

[BOD89LX]

I see what u did there..

to b or not to b --- we are better off with to b

 

[needspeed]

even if the car is 55k, the dealer markup will be 5-7k over msrp until next december i would imagine... Look how many people paid 15k over sticker for the New boss 302, same will happen with this new 650 horsepower beast. When people see top speed over 200mph, its a marketing ploy and a brilliant one at that. Ive already contacted 3 of the big houston dealerships today and they all said 10k over sticker is where they will start. Im sure if you look at some backwoods dealerships in a po dunk town, you can probably find a decent deal but i would NOT expect to really find a great deal in the first 6 months of the car release.

Hey, I live in that po dunk town. I deserve a break since I am stuck in my po dunk town.

You fancy pants big city folk just kill me ......Steve

 

[Tob]

to b or not to b --- we are better off with to b

If the former meant a shift to Camero5.com, I'd make a reservation with Kevorkian for some longevity reduction advice. So thanks for that.

 

[bumplime]

I called my local dealer and he couldnt find any info on ordering one. When I asked him to give me a call ASAP once he gets any info, he said "maybe we can work something out that benefits you and us if you order one", when I inquired what he was thinking he said they probably wouldnt get one to "sit" on as a display unless a customer let their car stay in the showroom for a little while. I asked what my incentive would be, he chuckled and said how about under MSRP....I quickly said keep me posted and hung up.
This dealership unlike some, I havent seen them mark up MSRP. They actually frequently sell under and move a lot of cars.

 

[svtsupersnake]

k yea so i just called like 3 ford dealerships in my area minus one which tried to sell me a shelby for 80k like crazy ****ers they said these cars when they come out arent sold above msrp they said usually from model year to model year the price is raised 2 percent so if a fully loaded coupe is say 55k now this new one we can expect to be around 57k

 

[ac427cobra]

Is there anyone that feels sorry for Challenger and Camaro owners at this time?

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[rdsnk46]

Unbelievable migraine coming up for Camaro ZL1.In the long run I wouldn't waste my money on the Camaro,just go full blown and purchase the Corvette,as I said in my other post I'll wait till 2013 and purchase a 2013 Shelby GT500 SVTPP,this time I'm going to special order mine with automatic trans,a extra $2500 out of my pocket book,so sick and tried of shifting in traffic,on this small rock in the middle of nowhere it's all traffic.

Your info sounds good in theory.........but only time will tell.

What's a 2006 GT500 with out the supercharger? LOL!

 

[mustangc]

Trust me, this car could have used more wheel/tire out back. I'm now wondering how much rolling resistance/gas guzzler status played into the decision to keep the skinnies out back.

I wonder about the assembly line. I remember hearing Ford had to rework the tire delivery conveyors in AAI to get the '07 Shelby tires to fit. I wonder if manufacturing played more of a role than performance in limiting tire size?

Also, bigger tires mean more unsprung weight, a critical objective when trying to make an SRA be compliant in street mode AND predictable in track mode on rough surfaces. I don't know, and I'm not trying to make excuses. Just thinking about all the constraints Ford evaluates that we do not see.

Everything's a compromise, and I'd be interested to hear from Ford (maybe through an MM&FF or 5.0&SF article) what ultimately led to the decision. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Blackmax]

Repost,sorry guys.

 

[LittleLady]

Ok history class[101],I said that Hertz Rent A Car 2006 Shelby's didn't have the Superchargers installed on them and they came only in Automatic for rental cars.Mine I ordered from the dealership which came only in standard trans with the supercharger,you couldn't get a automatic from the dealership then in 2006.Only Hertz Rent A Car had the no superchargers and a automatic trans..Hertz didn't want it's customers out killing themselfs and sueing Hertz because the car put out to much power for most customers to handle.

Moving inside, there’s not much to improve upon. The GT-Hs have a dash plaque embossed with the Shelby serial number and a set of trick-looking door-sill plates that read “Hertz Shelby GT-H.” Make no mistake, the ’06 GT-H isn’t just a decal-and-emblem job. Several bits are added that easily make them the quickest automatic-transmission Mustangs in a long time; likely faster, in fact, than the ’03-’04 Mach 1s equipped with automatics.

 

[Tob]

I wonder about the assembly line. I remember hearing Ford had to rework the tire delivery conveyors in AAI to get the '07 Shelby tires to fit. I wonder if manufacturing played more of a role than performance in limiting tire size?

Pure poppycock. Ford has a myriad of ways to install components that won't work via their standard line - witness the "Mod Center" where the Boss has its quad exhaust installed, etc. No volume argument here as both GT500 and Boss are low in nature.

Also, bigger tires mean more unsprung weight, a critical objective when trying to make an SRA be compliant in street mode AND predictable in track mode on rough surfaces. I don't know, and I'm not trying to make excuses. Just thinking about all the constraints Ford evaluates that we do not see.

Then we should go back to 14" wheels no wider than 165 mm. Maybe bring back the hallowed TRX suspension of 1980?

Seriously, a 305 or a 315 does not force the S197 beyond any sort of reasonable performance envelope. I again suspect rolling resistance had much to do with it as Ford eeked out every ounce of gas mileage in order for the car to not fall back into gas guzzler territory. I truly believe that was the compromise that won out in the end.

Everything's a compromise, and I'd be interested to hear from Ford (maybe through an MM&FF or 5.0&SF article) what ultimately led to the decision. Inquiring minds want to know!

Hopefully we do someday, so we can add the individual that drove that decision to the list of people we don't want associated with Ford performance products in the future. Remember the Shelby claim that it was him that had to coerce Ford engineers into using a 285 instead of a 255 out back during '07 GT500 development? When I read that I thought - you have to be kidding me. If I was there I would have put my hand over Shelby's mouth and inserted a 315 into the mix. The decision was made on that weak of a vehicle dynamics foundation? Carroll Shelby's recommendation?

Crikey.

Look, Ford had an opportunity here and they missed the boat. The tooling for the floorpan has long since been amortized and that fact alone helps them to bring a platform to the market for less than the newer model Camaro (suspension complexity between the two notwithstanding). With two years left, 2014-2015, Ford could have made minor changes to the floorpan (revised for more wheel/tire) and to the axle (relocated certain suspension brackets to allow slight angular changes to the rear shock as well as moving the bumpstop inward). Very subtle changes, now giving Ford the necessary room to meet corporate minimum standards (for intrusion, etc) and allow for more rubber. The change would still allow narrower wheels/tires to be installed on lesser models - no problem. Handling characteristics could easily have been accommodated via minor tweaks.

Bottom line, not that bean counters said no. Uh uh. I'd proffer that whoever brought the idea to the table did a poor job of selling the idea, however incremental costs would have been. I admit, a change like that for a two year run is a hard sell. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been done.

All of which is a major sticking point with me, that Ford failed here (and in a big way). Note the foresight that GM had regarding the subject...

In 2006, when John Heinricy was head of Performance Vehicle Operations, he made sure the Camaro could someday house a larger differential and bigger rear tires. Slight changes to the floorpan created the space. As such, the ZL1 retains its stock chassis and bodywork. Only the hood and fascias are changed externally. The standard fenders house the 305-width rear tires...

From here.

I'm really surprised that Kerry Baldori wasn't able to convince upper level management to go along with necessary changes. Then again, maybe it was enthusiasts like us that did a poor job of convincing people like Baldori...

Tob

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

Ok history class[101],I said that Hertz Rent A Car 2006 Shelby's didn't have the Superchargers installed on them and they came only in Automatic for rental cars.Mine I ordered from the dealership which came only in standard trans with the supercharger,you couldn't get a automatic from the dealership then in 2006.Only Hertz Rent A Car had the no superchargers and a automatic trans..Hertz didn't want it's customers out killing themselfs and sueing Hertz because the car put out to much power for most customers to handle.

Moving inside, there’s not much to improve upon. The GT-Hs have a dash plaque embossed with the Shelby serial number and a set of trick-looking door-sill plates that read “Hertz Shelby GT-H.” Make no mistake, the ’06 GT-H isn’t just a decal-and-emblem job. Several bits are added that easily make them the quickest automatic-transmission Mustangs in a long time; likely faster, in fact, than the ’03-’04 Mach 1s equipped with automatics.

Most of us know what the GT-H cars are, and they are not GT500s. The are basically Mustang GTs with the FR1 power pack and FR3 handling pack. I am sure you could have the dealer put on the Ford racing/whipple kits, but they did not come that way form Ford.
Shelby also made their Shelby GT/SC that had a paxton on it, but those were 3v 4.6l, not the 5.4 DOHC mills.

 

[Imatk]

Most of us know what the GT-H cars are, and they are not GT500s. The are basically Mustang GTs with the FR1 power pack and FR3 handling pack. I am sure you could have the dealer put on the Ford racing/whipple kits, but they did not come that way form Ford.
Shelby also made their Shelby GT/SC that had a paxton on it, but those were 3v 4.6l, not the 5.4 DOHC mills.

Agreed... also, unless this is something exclusive to Hawaii, the Hertz cars were not available for order through a dealership.

Nor were they ever available with a standard transmission.

From what I understand anyone who purchased a Hertz Shelby bought it from Hertz after they retired them from their rental fleet.

As for the 2013 coming with an automatic, I've not seen any indication that an automatic is available for the 2013, but then again maybe someone knows something I don't?

 

[svtsupersnake]

its in the 2013 thread wit the info on the 2013 that it will come wit an automatic wit a "manual" feature that really is the 30 year old sport shift technology not like the auto manual in the gtr which is behaves like a real manual minus the clutch

 

[aso544]

I got bored today and on Forza 4 so I mocked up a ZL1 and a 2013 Gt500. I used the specs from both cars ( HP, torque, gearing, weight, suspension components, tire and wheel size, etc...) and got them as dead on as i could then ran 3 clean runs with each car on the 12.9 mile Ring ( Nurburging Nordschleife) and the Camaro beat the Shelby all three runs ( by 8,7, and 5 seconds).

Now this was just for fun and means absolutely nothing in the real world but interesting no less!!! Oh my fastest lap was 8:35 with the ZL1 and 8:40 with the Shelby and i know the actual ZL1 ran a 7:41 on this course. I couldnt supercharge the ZL1 on the game as there is no option to do it so i had to tweak other engine specs to get the HP and torque numbers right.

 

[ON D BIT]

I got bored today and on Forza 4 so I mocked up a ZL1 and a 2013 Gt500. I used the specs from both cars ( HP, torque, gearing, weight, suspension components, tire and wheel size, etc...) and got them as dead on as i could then ran 3 clean runs with each car on the 12.9 mile Ring ( Nurburging Nordschleife) and the Camaro beat the Shelby all three runs ( by 8,7, and 5 seconds).

Now this was just for fun and means absolutely nothing in the real world but interesting no less!!! Oh my fastest lap was 8:35 with the ZL1 and 8:40 with the Shelby and i know the actual ZL1 ran a 7:41 on this course. I couldnt supercharge the ZL1 on the game as there is no option to do it so i had to tweak other engine specs to get the HP and torque numbers right.

In the specs were they running the same tire(sticky compound)? Also what weight did you use on both cars?

Can you run the gt500 13 vs the 05 ford gt at vir? I question because the gt500 is running faster laps than the ford gt at vir. This is with the same driver in both cars....

 

[VNMOUS1]

Agreed... also, unless this is something exclusive to Hawaii, the Hertz cars were not available for order through a dealership.

Nor were they ever available with a standard transmission.

From what I understand anyone who purchased a Hertz Shelby bought it from Hertz after they retired them from their rental fleet.

As for the 2013 coming with an automatic, I've not seen any indication that an automatic is available for the 2013, but then again maybe someone knows something I don't?

Actually, there ARE a handful of manual GT-Hs. They were never released to Hertz, but were cars that only a few Ford mucky-mucks had. They command a buttload of money when you can find one. VERY few.

And no, at this point in time there is no auto trans planned for the 2013 GT500. Torque issues.

bj

 

[VNMOUS1]

Ok history class[101],I said that Hertz Rent A Car 2006 Shelby's didn't have the Superchargers installed on them and they came only in Automatic for rental cars.Mine I ordered from the dealership which came only in standard trans with the supercharger,you couldn't get a automatic from the dealership then in 2006.Only Hertz Rent A Car had the no superchargers and a automatic trans..Hertz didn't want it's customers out killing themselfs and sueing Hertz because the car put out to much power for most customers to handle.

Moving inside, there’s not much to improve upon. The GT-Hs have a dash plaque embossed with the Shelby serial number and a set of trick-looking door-sill plates that read “Hertz Shelby GT-H.” Make no mistake, the ’06 GT-H isn’t just a decal-and-emblem job. Several bits are added that easily make them the quickest automatic-transmission Mustangs in a long time; likely faster, in fact, than the ’03-’04 Mach 1s equipped with automatics.

YOU "ordered" a GT-H new from a dealership and you are therefore the first titled owner?? Really?? Just out of curiosity, what's your Shelby tag number? (Not the Ford VIN, but the one on the Shelby tag under the hood)

You have a real one-of-a-kind there m'am. :smmon::bowdown:

bj

 

[dirtyo2000]

Didn't know the 03-04 Machs were considered fast. I thought the Termi's were the fast ones. Machs had decent bottom ends for mods but maybe I'm wrong. Never kept up with Ford to much back then. Body styles started looking on the bland side. Was glad when they 05 came out bringing back style