I'm still in the planing stage but not sure the route to take. I want to build a big in windsor or cleveland based engine to put in my sn95 or maybe my fox. I origionaly wanted to go 408 or 427 windsor. I'm trying to find a block for next to nothing and have all the machining done and purchase probably a probe or scat forged rotating assembly. if i go windsor i'll run my upper trick flow intake and twisted wedge heads. if i go cleveland i'll pick up a set of ausie heads. A budy of mine has a cleveland short block that needs some cleaning up for 150 its a 4 bolt main. i'd like to go that route but not sure on what i want to do. any oppinions? any input from anyone who's done a stroker out of either? i know theres a lot to be determined as far as cam injector size and such. i'm just weighing my options engine for engine dollar for dollar. i'm told if built and tuned correctly its not unheard of to see 2hp for ever cubic inch on a cleveland.
windsor vs cleveland which to build
- Thread starter hadler88
- Start date
Both.
Windsor block with cleveland heads.
Windsor block with cleveland heads.
No clue. Maybe post in the right section and you'll get more help?
-Eric
-Eric
i would think a cleveland with ausie heads would put a clevor to shame. by time i buy a windsor block and cleveland heads, i could buy a cleveland block and ausie heads and make alot more power for the same money.
Do the Cleveland build with aussie heads. But, be sure you tap the rear of the block so you can run a oil feed line to get oil on those last 2 bearings. I built a Windsor and my dad built the Cleveland, his made more torque and hp with the same setup. Again make sure up tap the block, if not, you will blow it in the first 6 months. Also a high volume oil pump helps. Good luck
Dads motor dynoed 530hp at 6000 and 499tq at 4500. He ran a 7.30 in the 1/8 with a 1080 dominator. The engine is in a 1970 mach 1 all body, full interior, custom sub setup in trunk, weighing closer to 3800 lbs. He has 18" on the front and 20's out rear. But he also has a nascar trans and a spec 3+ clutch which allowed him to leave the line around 4300rpm.
Also, he bought a cheap set of procomp heads and had the worked, so with the aussie heads your build should be more powerful...
Dads motor dynoed 530hp at 6000 and 499tq at 4500. He ran a 7.30 in the 1/8 with a 1080 dominator. The engine is in a 1970 mach 1 all body, full interior, custom sub setup in trunk, weighing closer to 3800 lbs. He has 18" on the front and 20's out rear. But he also has a nascar trans and a spec 3+ clutch which allowed him to leave the line around 4300rpm.
Also, he bought a cheap set of procomp heads and had the worked, so with the aussie heads your build should be more powerful...
Your asking a bunch of mod motorheads about an engine with push rods?
when i posted this i didn't realize it was the termi tuning section, my deepest apologies to all of the ohc guys i might have upset with talk of pushrod motors. the cleveland is allready drilled for oil flow. i really want to go bigger inch but dont want to mess with tracking down and spending the money on all of the extra parts ( headers, distributor, lower intake as i will be staying fuel injected.) might go 347 in my cobra since its already a 306. maybe i'll slowly build the cleveland for my fox body.
Wut? Ha - just kidding, no problem. Don't understand any of that pushrods old timey talk! 
Lucky for u I know a lot about push rodded motors. If it were me again I would still stick with the windsor. they are much much more plentiful than the clevland(cheaper) & a lot more off the shelf parts. I built a 393 w with a probe rotating kit...damn good motor. Another pro to the 393 is you dont have to clerance the block or clerance the bottom of the cylinders. That kit just drops right In no problem...my suggestion is to get a 74 or older block(69 is the first year) they have much more material in the main areas. U can get some really nice afr heads to really help that motor breath. 2.05 intake valves 1.60 exhaust. Also when u order your rotating assembly make sure u tell them where the bearing tangs are located or u will get bearings that dont fit..they have a couple different styles and if u dont specify u get the newer year bearings..also block identifacation for 69 will be c9 for the first couple #s so u know u have a 69. 70s is indicated with a d...so d1 would be a 71 bock ect.
As op mentioned earlier clevlands suffer from oil starvation..if u address the problem u are all good..dont get me wrong they are great motors as well but will cost u more in the long run.
If u got any more questions p.m. me or my # is 909 6930791
Dwight
As op mentioned earlier clevlands suffer from oil starvation..if u address the problem u are all good..dont get me wrong they are great motors as well but will cost u more in the long run.
If u got any more questions p.m. me or my # is 909 6930791
Dwight
Last edited:
Very cool of you Dwight!
This debate has caused many people to get banned from forums. Not sure why the W vs. C debate get some people so pissed off.....
being that they are almost identical, from on outside perspective (same displacement, bore spacing, blah, blah..) it would depend more on what you are going to do with it. the only real difference is the head design and that being said you can buy Windsor heads that out flow Cleveland's so again they can be built to do the same thing. the C is more rare and cool to some people. the W is cheaper and more supported from the aftermarket. Last motor I built was an injected 347 'W' so perhaps I'm biased.
being that they are almost identical, from on outside perspective (same displacement, bore spacing, blah, blah..) it would depend more on what you are going to do with it. the only real difference is the head design and that being said you can buy Windsor heads that out flow Cleveland's so again they can be built to do the same thing. the C is more rare and cool to some people. the W is cheaper and more supported from the aftermarket. Last motor I built was an injected 347 'W' so perhaps I'm biased.
Back in the day, when there was no cylinder head technology, the Cleveland would be the way to go as those heads have HUGE flow. Huge valves, huge runners, etc, make good power and rev smaller cube motors to the moon (that's why the original Boss 302's were spinning over 6500 rpm from the factory). Now, with all the parts and tech available for the Windsor, it's the better route to go. Less expensive, more parts, and plenty of huge heads available off the shelf.
As an old pushrod guy, I completely agree with both of these guys! Save the Cleveland for an old Mach 1 resto, or Pantera, and go with the Windsor for your project. Much cheaper to build, and way more parts availability - almost on par with small block Chevy!
^^Thanks...i was big into push rod motors before i got into cobras.:beer:
i just want to build something to hold much more power than i'll be making to leave room for future mods (more nitrous, turbo) i see where u guys are going with the aftermarket availability of the windsor. but as far as the cleveland goes aside from distributor, exhaust, and oil pan, all i really need is the lower plenum to keep my fuel injection. Added bonus of the cleveland is its allready drilled for oil flow, its 150 buck and a 4 bolt main. i still love the ideal of a big inch windsor, but a bare set of ausie heads are around 400. i know i'm rambling but i guess what im saying is the aftermarket advantage of the windsor isn't really a big deal since i would need essentially the same parts for the windsor as the cleveland.
True, but for the most part, those extra parts are a bit harder to find for the Cleveland, fewer brands to choose from, and usually sell at a higher price, that's all I was saying. I have owned several of both types, but my choice would be the Windsor hands down. The Cleveland was a great engine in it's day, but the aftermarket didn't continue much past '73 since by then most Ford products ended up with the Windsors, or those smog pump derivatives of the Cleveland, the 400M series. Those made crap for power, yet were gas pigs. Not saying that a Cleveland isn't an excellent engine, but for the same money at the end, you will probably end up with a better overall package going Windsor. Oh, and good luck finding that EFI lower plenum to fit the Cleveland!:dw:
Then there is overall weight too, which if you care about handling at all, should be a consideration...
Last edited:
If you already have most of the parts, then hell, why not do a cleveland or a clevor? Definitely nice having 4 bolt mains, and the 2-3/4" mains are better as well. Go for it, do something a little different.
Build whatever you want, but it will be alot cheaper to build a 408 windsor than any sort of cleveland setup, and unless you have $10k+ to put into it, the windsor will make more power on a given budget..
Unless you are going with a BIG poweradder as well, any year windsor block will work, and you could save money by using a roller block, which will still handle 600-700 horsepower with ease..
You would have better luck researching your question on corral.net
As for size, there is no real benifit of doing a 393 as opposed to a 408, and 9/10 people would opt for the extra cubes.. A 393 just uses 302 pistons
Unless you are going with a BIG poweradder as well, any year windsor block will work, and you could save money by using a roller block, which will still handle 600-700 horsepower with ease..
You would have better luck researching your question on corral.net
As for size, there is no real benifit of doing a 393 as opposed to a 408, and 9/10 people would opt for the extra cubes.. A 393 just uses 302 pistons
Users who are viewing this thread
