will ford and svt listen????

[ON D BIT]

im sorry, but are you really that ignorant? do you take every single word at face value???

im pretty damn sure that its relatively obvious that im sayin FORD NEEDS TO BUILD BETTER CARS!

how is this pertinate to this thread? can they not build better cars and still build cars like the gt500? if the answer is yes please state your evidence.

 

[Captain Beyond]

now interms of marketing, you will not see power to weight ratio or torque listed. because of this fact most sales will be because of the hp, and indeed the mustang gt will lose badly. remember the new mustang with the boss engines will not arrive until the 2010 or 2011 model year! they will lose a ton of mustang gt sales if they dont up power today!

:nonono: Wrong. This marketing strategy hasn't worked for GM in the past. :-D

 

[ON D BIT]

:nonono: Wrong. This marketing strategy hasn't worked for GM in the past. :-D

it has not helped them sell v6 camaro/firebirds. but i know many people who would not look at the mustang gt because of its lack of power in the late 90s.

 

[93SVTCobra]

how is this pertinate to this thread? can they not build better cars and still build cars like the gt500? if the answer is yes please state your evidence.

You are aware that the GT-500 was the highest rated car in it's category, correct?

in summery. ford has the golden opportunity to be first to market with a high power low cost 09 mustang gt. if they do this they can effectively steal sales from this market segment because the mustang gt is the first on the lot. selling points: on the lots today, below msrp sale prices, 380+hp. with a 40hp a 5-10k price difference you can sway a lot of buyers towards the mustang. with 110hp difference people would be glad to pay the extra 5-10k difference in purchasing the challenger or camaro. ideally this mustang gt would be sweet if it has a better power to weight ratio than the ls3 camaro!

You are of course also aware that the last generation F-Body had a 50+hp advantage in it's base V-8 vs. the Mustang at the time and the Mustang still outsold it. Using your logic wouldn't everyone just pay the difference between a GT and a Shelby and take the extra 250 hp?

As much as I hate to admit it the pony wars isn't all about HP. HP certainly is a factor but not the only one. On this website it's a huge deal but we are the 5%ers.

I'd be really surprised if someone cross shops the Challenger with a Mustang. With the Challenger being based off the 300 and Charger platform so expect it to weight around 4100. Even with the SRT8's 425hp motor performance is going to be about 0-60 in 5.0 seconds. Additionally they don't have a manual trans option.

 

[LR 01 Cobra]

Do you honestly expect the Camaro and Challenger to be lightweight?

I'm not disagreeing with missing this segment but to imply that the Camaro and Challenger are going to meet the above criteria isn't exactly realistic given the weights of the chassis they are built off......

The camaro will weigh more than 3200 Lbs but it will have 400 HP in it's NA Model, and over 500 the following year in it's SC model! With lots of other things I can't post! It will be a animal!

 

[ON D BIT]

You are of course also aware that the last generation F-Body had a 50+hp advantage in it's base V-8 vs. the Mustang at the time and the Mustang still outsold it. Using your logic wouldn't everyone just pay the difference between a GT and a Shelby and take the extra 250 hp?

you are correct. but at this time currently the gt500 is abotu 20k more than a mustang gt.

As much as I hate to admit it the pony wars isn't all about HP. HP certainly is a factor but not the only one. On this website it's a huge deal but we are the 5%ers.

a mustang gt a 300hp for 30k or a camaro at 425hp for 35k? what would you buy?

 

[beabout]

Camero

 

[ac427cobra]

a mustang gt a 300hp for 30k or a camaro at 425hp for 35k? what would you buy?

Is this Camaro 425 N/A hp for sure at this point? :shrug:

 

[Captain Beyond]

You are aware that the GT-500 was the highest rated car in it's category, correct?



You are of course also aware that the last generation F-Body had a 50+hp advantage in it's base V-8 vs. the Mustang at the time and the Mustang still outsold it. Using your logic wouldn't everyone just pay the difference between a GT and a Shelby and take the extra 250 hp?

As much as I hate to admit it the pony wars isn't all about HP. HP certainly is a factor but not the only one. On this website it's a huge deal but we are the 5%ers.

I'd be really surprised if someone cross shops the Challenger with a Mustang. With the Challenger being based off the 300 and Charger platform so expect it to weight around 4100. Even with the SRT8's 425hp motor performance is going to be about 0-60 in 5.0 seconds. Additionally they don't have a manual trans option.

+1 :thumbsup:

What some don't understand is that most people won't buy one model over another just because of a higher hp rating. That hasn't worked for GM in the past. What most people want (in this entry level V8 model) is an attractive, well built, comfortable sporty car at a great value. Something GM fell short of with previous models.

 

[LeadSled1]

Well, since the new platform for the performance engines starts with the LS3 as of this year I don't see them going with something smaller or less powerful. It would cost more money to produce less power if they did. I can see them "rating" the motor as less but not designing a whole new motor just for power reduction. Plus the LS3 is getting mid to high 20s (reports of 30) in miles per gallon as is. There is a cam revision coming from GM at some point that will also bump the LS3 up significantly. Then you also have talks of the Gen V with direct injection.

I guess we will not have an idea until about a year from now, but I don't see the HP numbers retreating any time soon. (hopefully)

GM has been promising comparable pricing to the Mustang GT for the base V8 Camaro. Should be interesting to see how that shakes out.

 

[Captain Beyond]

Not the camaro, especially if it weighs alot and is a piece of crap . :-D

 

[DBK]

the ford gt would have made a bunch more money if they did not rush it to production? correct me if i am wrong

No. Time to production has nothing to do with it. Building a ground up supercar that costs several hundred million dollars to develop with a 4000 unit volume is a break even type project, whether it's a year or 4.. The Viper has been around 15 years and they still lose money on it. On a per unit basis, the Veyron costs Bugatti somewhere in the neighborhood of 7-8 million dollars. That's why they call them halo projects.

The GT was developed extremely fast just to be ready for the company's 100th anniversary. If not for the centennial, it never would have been made.

GT500 is a top of the range model that makes a ton of money and didn't cost a lot to develop. Can't argue with that. Light costs big bucks because of the materials, and if you don't want heavy cars, go to Washington and tell them their safety standards suck for performance cars. Light, safe, cheap. Pick two.

 

[ON D BIT]

Is this Camaro 425 N/A hp for sure at this point? :shrug:

i keep hearing the ls3 will be in it. as for the tune i am not sure. the stock tune 436hp in the ls3 vette is putting down 390+ to the wheels. thats way more than 436 at the crank!:beer:

 

[ON D BIT]

i found these qoutes in another thread, but they match my original point precisely!

....I don't know about the Camaro's likeability - I do know that when I took my son to transformers & the thing transformed into the new Camaro; all 500 people in the theater gasped & oo'd and ahh'd at the car, including my son, and me.

Comparing a drivetrain available 5 yrs ealier to another not even out yet isn't really a comparo. I don't mind Ford relaxing on a 300hp output for the GT stang for 4+ years, instead of some piddly climbing like 320hp, 340hp changes - IF, IF, it's because they've been investing in launching a 400+ drivetrain for the new pony wars to come. But they better have something - I don't think just offering the lowest base price is gonna cut it for success.

talking about the new gm lineup, that has already begun with the new ls3...

If that's the case GM is building an army of sports cars to take out the competition. They are doing the same thing Coletti did with the 03/04 Cobras... just looking to end the debates and wipe out the competition.

I hate to say it, but if what you say is true I'll be driving either a blown camaro or a zr1/zo6 vette next go around. Looks like GM has it out for Ford and Dodge/Chrysler.

Yes, when it is unlikely that there will be a base V8 mustang making the power that their powerplants are making when they debut, yes. It just shows once again that Ford has stopped looking forward. Hell, the base for a 2007 Mustang V8 (300hp) is still not on par with the Base camaro V8 of 1998. (315hp LS1).

I have to agree ,Ford needs aleast 400 or 425hp ,in the base V8, to be inline with the new Muscle cars when they come out. I think the prices will rise alittle also ,has anyone priced a SRT-8 car they are around 41k to 44k

the srt8's prices start at near 37k(charger 6.1), but then you need to add the 2k gas tax.

 

[Captain Beyond]

Yeah, we'll see how the rest of the buying public feels. I'm still willing to bet that Ford will sell more Mustangs than camaros. :-D

 

[93SVTCobra]

Another thing you guys aren't figuring in is that GM has a problem that Ford doesn't. If the Camaro performs too well then it will steal sales away from the Corvette. Yes, I've seen people decide to buy a Corvette instead of a Shelby but one thing you don't want to do in the marketing world is sell against yourself which is exactly what can happen if the Camaro is to good.

 

[LR 01 Cobra]

Another thing you guys aren't figuring in is that GM has a problem that Ford doesn't. If the Camaro performs too well then it will steal sales away from the Corvette. Yes, I've seen people decide to buy a Corvette instead of a Shelby but one thing you don't want to do in the marketing world is sell against yourself which is exactly what can happen if the Camaro is to good.

Not true! Cost will be differnt, totaly differnt buying market. The only reason the GT 500 is compared to the vette is price and nothing else out there to compare it to. I work at P&G and we sell against ourselves all the time. Does it matter if you buy a Corvette or a Camaro? Both are GM! You didn't buy another companys car. Do you see what I'm saying?
All 3 will be and are very nice cars!
You can bet the next gen Mustang will be sweet! Nuff Said.

Vette = Sports Car
GT 500 = Muscle car
Camaro = Muscle car

 

[ON D BIT]

Another thing you guys aren't figuring in is that GM has a problem that Ford doesn't. If the Camaro performs too well then it will steal sales away from the Corvette. Yes, I've seen people decide to buy a Corvette instead of a Shelby but one thing you don't want to do in the marketing world is sell against yourself which is exactly what can happen if the Camaro is to good.

the camaro cant, well compared to the vette. because of the weight being hundreds of pounds lighter the vette will always perform much better than the camaro! even if the camaro and the vette share the exact same engine with the same production tune. and this does not even mention the added benefits the corvettes chasis and suspension has over the camaro.

 

[Red Turtle]

IMO, all they need to do is step it up in the next bodystyle mustang.

Just put 360-375hp N/A 4v in the car, and once the aftermarket gets a hold of it you will be well over 400 n/a.

 

[ON D BIT]

IMO, all they need to do is step it up in the next bodystyle mustang.

Just put 360-375hp N/A 4v in the car, and once the aftermarket gets a hold of it you will be well over 400 n/a.

with the new boss engines(5.8, 6.2, 6.4) i would think it would be more than that. can ford wait that long? can they really have a 300hp mustang gt in 09 and 10 when the camaro and challenger are both above 400hp in thier base v8s?