VERY IMPORTANT INFO! could explain alot of engine failures!!

hpbyhermann

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I came across a car i was tuning today that was perfect up to 5,200 rpm's then drifted lean very quickly. I tried everything to get fuel in it, then looking at the logs i noticed the maf counts were dropping from a point about 880 counts, (sct-2400 maf, ported eaton car)down to 850-860 while the rpm's were still going up!! That is making no sense unless un-metered air is getting into the intake tract pre-blower but post maf....check everything, all perfect with no leaks.... this car was making me pull out my hair!! Then i started to think about it, I thought maybe the blower was having reversion at that rpm point, which it wasn't. The car also has a 4 lb lower drive on it, I started wondering if it was possibly a voltage issue of some sort, i called my buddy ryan @ sct and he backed up my thoughts, thinking as the voltage decreased so did the power to the fuel system even though this car has a wiring upgrade and a Bap. I had never logged the voltage pid, but after doing so i found some great info....even with a metco 3.20 alternator pulley on the alternator the car the voltage stated to fall off... at 5,273 rpm's it had 12.68 volts, at 5,478 it had 12.50, at 5,587 12.25, 5,670 12.18..., 5,992 it had 12.06..., 6,078 11.87...,6,296 it had 11.81..., 6,460 it had 11.50...,6,440 11.37....and as it got over 6,200 it started to drift leaner than I would like to see so we lifted. The point of all of this is simple....as the rpm's increase on a car with a lower drive on it the voltage starts to drop off quickly, so all of you data loggers with raptor or x-cal-2's better start to log the voltage pid, it just may save your engine's life!! I am going to do a ton of datalogging with larger alternator pulleys even if we have to get some custom sizes fabbed up. EVERYTHING I FIND WILL BE POSTED AS I FIND IT! I would say this is in fact the cause of alot of the engine failures we have seen, not due to the tunes but due to the drop of voltage......this is one of the big advantages I get due to the fact I tune on the street in real world conditions....one more thing....as soon as we lifted off and the rpm's fell, the voltage returned This is going to HELP US ALL and i'm glad i could share this super important find!! Thanks to ryan @ sct for his input in solving a HUGE PROBLEM!!! Hermann :beer:
 
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Jimmysidecarr

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HOLY CRAP!!!!
Herman!!!! You freaking rock man!!!

What a clever and awesome find!!!!

Makes perfect sense!!!

Sensitive electronics!!! Dependant on stable voltage baselines that variable output voltage sources can not provide!!!

WOW!!! Great find!!!

Jimmy :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :beer:
 

geepaw

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good stuff herman. It is good to see vendors/tuners such as yourself not
just interested in making money off parts or installs, but also care about
making it as reliable as possible. :beer:
 

geepaw

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oh yeah..what minimum set-up in terms of gauges/sensors/logging
wouldbe your must have based on your experience?
 
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That being the case we could use capaciters like the big stereo guys use for their base on our baps and that would give us more time before voltage drop off up to like 30 seconds!
 
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hpbyhermann

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I'm a cobra enthusiast first...and this is BIG TIME IMPORTANT!!

geepaw said:
good stuff herman. It is good to see vendors/tuners such as yourself not
just interested in making money off parts or installs, but also care about
making it as reliable as possible. :beer:
This is just huge, and had to be shared with everyone.... :rockon: post your data...go log your own cars before damage happens to you!!! :beer: hermann :thumbsup:
 

drkchk03svt

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hpbyhermann said:
I came across a car i was tuning today that was perfect up to 5,200 rpm's then drifted lean very quickly. I tried everything to get fuel in it, then looking at the logs i noticed the maf counts were dropping from a point about 880 counts, (sct-2400 maf, ported eaton car)down to 850-860 while the rpm's were still going up!! That is making no sense unless un-metered air is getting into the intake tract pre-blower but post maf....check everything, all perfect with no leaks.... this car was making me pull out my hair!! Then i started to think about it, I thought maybe the blower was having reversion at that rpm point, which it wasn't. The car also has a 4 lb lower drive on it, I started wondering if it was possibly a voltage issue of some sort, i called my buddy ryan @ sct and he backed up my thoughts, thinking as the voltage decreased so did the power to the fuel system even though this car has a wiring upgrade and a Bap. I had never logged the voltage pid, but after doing so i found some great info....even with a metco 3.20 alternator pulley on the alternator the car the voltage stated to fall off... at 5,273 rpm's it had 12.68 volts, at 5,478 it had 12.50, at 5,587 12.25, 5,670 12.18..., 5,992 it had 12.06..., 6,078 11.87...,6,296 it had 11.81..., 6,460 it had 11.50...,6,440 11.37....and as it got over 6,200 it started to drift leaner than I would like to see so we lifted. The point of all of this is simple....as the rpm's increase on a car with a lower drive on it the voltage starts to drop off quickly, so all of you data loggers with raptor or x-cal-2's better start to log the voltage pid, it just may save your engine's life!! I am going to do a ton of datalogging with larger alternator pulleys even if we have to get some custom sizes fabbed up. EVERYTHING I FIND WILL BE POSTED AS I FIND IT! I would say this is in fact the cause of alot of the engine failures we have seen, not due to the tunes but due to the drop of voltage......this is one of the big advantages I get due to the fact I tune on the street in real world conditions....one more thing....as soon as we lifted off and the rpm's fell, the voltage returned This is going to HELP US ALL and i'm glad i could share this super important find!! Thanks to ryan @ sct for his input in solving a HUGE PROBLEM!!! Hermann :beer:


Was this with or with out a larger alternator pulley? I know you said you would test with different alterantor pulleys but what about the one you graphed already. I have a 2.93/4lb/Metco underdrive alternator pulley. Thanks Herman!

Will
 

hpbyhermann

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drkchk03svt said:
Was this with or with out a larger alternator pulley? I know you said you would test with different alterantor pulleys but what about the one you graphed already. I have a 2.93/4lb/Metco underdrive alternator pulley. Thanks Herman!

Will
Will, this is with a 4 lb. lower and the alternator pulley is a 3.20 metco....going to try some larger units.....here is some more info....tried this with the stock pulley too...the voltage loss started at 4,600 rpm :eek: and we shut it off then!! We are definately on to something VERY BIG with this!! :pepper: Going to post up resulys with larger pulleys this week!! hermann :beer:
 

blk04cobra1

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Do you think this is b/c of the lower pulley addition? Also, very nice find, im sure Steggie would be interested in seeing your findings as well.
 

drkchk03svt

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hpbyhermann said:
Will, this is with a 4 lb. lower and the alternator pulley is a 3.20 metco....going to try some larger units.....here is some more info....tried this with the stock pulley too...the voltage loss started at 4,600 rpm :eek: and we shut it off then!! We are definately on to something VERY BIG with this!! :pepper: Going to post up resulys with larger pulleys this week!! hermann :beer:


I have the 3.5 I think. hmmm. Great info!

Will
 

HISSMAN

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What about upgrading to a better alternator that is more efficient? Would that work, or would you still be stuck with the same problem, but with an expensinve generator mounted to the block?
 

CobraBob

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Good work Hermann. This really bears watching to see where it all goes. :)
 

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