Venom F14 '03 Cobra Brake Kit - Installation

[Jimmysidecarr]

The 14" alcon set up will NOT clear the 03-04 cobra wheels, the wheels have a lip on the inside that goes from the outboard side in about 2". This lip prevents them form going on. I tried it this weekend when taking some pics for a up coming thread.

Jim

I may have some 17" chromies up for sale then, and will be needing another set of 95Rs.

EDIT: I just checked and there is way more room on the 95R than on the 03/04 in that spot. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Maynor]

Although heat is a big factor I believe the increased brake torque is most significant.

I want to try and pull off a 14" GT500 rotor / 4 piston Alcon caliper inside 17" wheels to save both money and weight.

This cart shows the results of the heat testing of the Venum kit:

I remember seeing that graph but it doesn't really help when it comes to real world results Jimmy. My read, its a red herring...

I have yet to fade the 13" 00R system with real race pads and high temp fluid installed running RA1s. Not shooting down the idea... I love lower cost options and a wider range of options period.

'm still scratching my head trying to find the benefit in going to that brake setup. I'd want to know the following:

Cost for replacement rotors/pads?
Braking benefit versus other options.

At least, before I'd put down any coin. YMMV Either way, I'd love to see a set fit and hear some real world benefits once you get them up and running!

John

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Greater brake torque(tire limited)
Longer rotor life
longer pad life

I don't have them so I can't prove squat.

I can tell you that my pads lasted longer after adding cooling ducts and I am assuming this would be somewhat similar except that additionally, depending on tire compounds, the stopping distances should also be shorter.

Think GT500 brakes in a slightly lighter car. It's primarily a leverage thing.

The rotating weight is a detriment. The use of 17" rolling stock would greatly reduce the weight downside. Wheel choice would be extremely limited.

I don't have a problem running 95Rs if that's what it takes.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Enkei RPF1 might be a good, lightweight wheel option to try here They have a 17X9 in +22 offset.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Enkei RPF1 might be a good, lightweight wheel option to try here They have a 17X9 in +22 offset.

If they have the amazing clearance that the near legendary 95R does, then that certainly appears to be an attractive option.

That rim looks great and I will bet they are reasonably light.

I need to find out if after centering adjustments are made with the Alcon to accommodate GT500 rotors, is the spoke clearance still there for the 95Rs?

Sorry about crapping up your thread with this Alcon stuff sonicmach1. :bash:

I got wound up about 14" brakes and kinda got carried away.

 

[mu22stang]

The 17" x 9" RPF1's are light alright, about 16 lbs. I've never really read any definitive information on their strength though. I realize keeping the 17" will help reduce the chance of bending the wheel in the event of an "off", but I'd love to know who has experience running them on a near full weight Cobra.

Three things are on my list of "to-do's": weight reduction, improved safety, and improved reliability. I can live with the extra weight, but the other two...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The 17" x 9" RPF1's are light alright, about 16 lbs. I've never really read any definitive information on their strength though. I realize keeping the 17" will help reduce the chance of bending the wheel in the event of an "off", but I'd love to know who has experience running them on a near full weight Cobra.

Three things are on my list of "to-do's": weight reduction, improved safety, and improved reliability. I can live with the extra weight, but the other two...

The RPF1s are pretty strong for what they are, but obviously not as strong as the OEM wheels.

 

[sonicmach1]

Venom 14" Brakes Are Installed

I installed the brakes today - very simple and no issues at all. The hardware is now 100% ARP which is a nice bonus. :thumbsup:

I will add some stock Cobra PBR brake compare pics then some of the install in a few posts.

I just need to bleed them tomorrow and give them a try.

Done - ready for bleeding

Stock PBR Brakes for comparison

Rotor Compare

Caliper Compare

Caliper Compare

Venom Kit ARP Hardware

 

[sonicmach1]

Here are some pictures of the clearances...

Stock Brakes - 18" AFS Rims

Stock Brakes / 18" AFS Rims - Clearances

Brembo Brakes / 18" AFS Rims - Clearances

 

[gmsux]

Looks great! Can't wait to hear how you like them.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

I noticed MM is selling a kit to fit the GT500 Brembos, but theirs includes Wheel Spacers. Why would those be needed? Caliper Clearance?

 

[sonicmach1]

I noticed MM is selling a kit to fit the GT500 Brembos, but theirs includes Wheel Spacers. Why would those be needed? Caliper Clearance?

The GT500 calipers are wider and require a GT500 offset-type rim to clear the rim spokes and mounting hub. The GT500 caliper is a bit bulkier in areas due to its two-piece bolt-together design. (Note: I will look around to see if I can find a GT500 vs. my Brembo caliper compare...) The MM kit uses spacers to get the clearance. Vintage Venom also sells the same GT500 conversion kit.

http://www.vintagevenom.com/shelby-gt500-brake-and-wheel-conversion

I did not want to get new rims nor use spacers and new studs so this kit was very appealing. Shelby rotors and calipers cost about $1270 through Tousley Ford alone too.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Do you know anyone with some FRPP R58 95R wheels?

I have talked to two different fairly credible sources that have maintained that the 17" R58s will actually fit over the kit you have.

If I knew if it was just the casting for the wire for the pad sensors, that posed a clearance issue, then I would go with this kit instead of the Alcons.

That little tab could be ground off without compromising the bridge.

 

[sonicmach1]

I have them running now - bedding in so taking it light for now. They look impressive.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Hell yes they are impressive! These are the brakes that should have been on the Y2KR! The Y2KR brakes should have been stock on our 03/04s.

I think you are going to see this kit really take off! It is a good value on some seriously hard core racing brakes! Yet the replacement parts are reasonably priced and readily available.

DO WANT!:rockon:

 

[Fast GTO]

I've heard that the stock Cobra brake fluid reservoir as well as some other issues results in degraded brake pedal feel when using these large calipers. True?

 

[HI-OCTANE]

Pretty nice kit! Now they need to make one to fit the Cobra R's in the rear so I can have a good excuse to put these up front.

 

[cobra-boss]

Well gang I went to Carlisle Pennsylvania this weekend for the big Ford car show and swap meet. While walking around the swap meet I found a set of GT500 calipers for a price that was so LOW I was obligated to buy them. Stay tuned as I will try to mount them and see if the 17"R will work.

Jim

 

[Fast GTO]

REF 03/04 Cobra brake reservoir and brake pedal travel with the F14 brake setup.

Well, there are two questions in there really. The reservoir and the piston area. As far as the reservoir is concerned, Ford’s testing is very extensive and conservative in this respect. I was the Mustang brake development engineer from 1992 to 2007 and ran the tests myself. For the reservoir capacity test we install new brakes with full thickness pads and rotors all around and fill the reservoir to the fill line. We then install 4 rotors machined down to the minimum thickness and install brake pads all around with no friction material on them (literally 8 metal backing plates simulating full metal to metal at all 4 corners). If that’s not bad enough, we then take the vehicle over to a 30% grade and position it facing up and down and make sure the master cylinder ports are covered with the fully worn pads and rotors. So, the production system passes that test. Our front caliper pistons are is slightly larger and affect the system with a 5.49% increase in piston area. So, from a reservoir capacity standpoint technically it would be 5.49% worse than the production design. Whether they would meet the extreme condition of 8 metal to metal pads on 4 fully worn out rotors while on a 30% grade and having never added any fluid to the system, I can’t say. I think you can see that this requirement is extremely conservative and certainly not a concern.



With respect to pedal feel, there are many factors here. Again from a pure hydromechanical standpoint the 5.49% increase in area would theoretically increase pedal travel slightly. The other factors that help pedal feel on the F14 package are things like caliper stiffness (the Monobloc is a very stiff caliper), pad compressibility, noise insulator compressibility and seal rollback. Another factor that is much larger than these is the fact that the Brembo pistons are a staggered bore size and essentially eliminate tapered pad wear. The Cobra calipers are known for their tapered pad wear from track use which drastically changes the pedal feel in an inconsistent way.



So, sorry for the long answer. We love the way they feel.

 

[sonicmach1]

I have them pretty much bedded in now and have done a few moderate strength stops. They do yank the car down much better than the stock system (of course).

They do clear the stock dust shields (although I removed mine)