Traction headaches continue, what next?

[AZSN95SNAKE]

:fm:As the title states, I'm having traction issues still. I had posted a thread about upper control arms a bit ago and was advised to check the pinion angle. Well I did some research on the subject and now I understand it a little better. Well to test that theory I decided to throw the stock springs back in to bring the car back to stock height and thus negate any pinion angle changes that were made when the car was lowered.

Results from that experiment: Still spinning 1-2 gear all the way to 7k rpm. 1st gear might be due to driver error on my launch, but it should still hook after the 60 foot mark. Shift into second and it spins all the way to 7k.

Notes:
-using 555R drag radials @ various psi (15, 18, 20, 25)
-aluminum DS
-4.10's
-bilstiens
-stock cobra springs: spins 1-2 but experienced horrible wheel hop with the stock springs
-when lowered on H&R super sports the same spinning occurred.
-mm LCAs
-stock uppers

Was my theory flawed? Or does that make sense? I'm about to drive this car to California and drive it into the Pacific Ocean :fm:
What else can it be? I don't want to just throw money at parts hoping that's the issue.
Would sub frame connectors help? I have them ready to install just haven't had the time.

 

[98 N/A 4V]

You're spinning nittos at the track all the way through 2nd with just 4.10's and minimal bolt-ons? Seems odd.

Is the front swaybar connected? Disconnect it if it is.

When I used to run nitters I ran them at 14psi cold. If I had to guess, you probably have little to no weight transfer.

-Mark

 

[98$vt]

STILL spinning? What the hell get some 335s and put those subframe connectors in! My nittos are bald and still sound like they hook better than you.

Has your problem gotten better or worse with the lower control arms?

 

[AZSN95SNAKE]

You're spinning nittos at the track all the way through 2nd with just 4.10's and minimal bolt-ons? Seems odd.

Is the front swaybar connected? Disconnect it if it is.

When I used to run nitters I ran them at 14psi cold. If I had to guess, you probably have little to no weight transfer.

-Mark

Yeah, something is definitely up. On a couple passes it only spun half of second rather than all the way up to 7k.

The front sway bar is connected, just disconect it or remove it?

14psi cold no burn out and you still hooked? I'm just assuming that's what you meant. Someone else mentioned weight transfer before but not sure where to start. I have bilsteins shocks and I know those aren't ideal for drag racing, but they cost me a good chunk of green lol.

Oh and I have the rear seat deleted and passenger seat, but same results regardless.

STILL spinning? What the hell get some 335s and put those subframe connectors in! My nittos are bald and still sound like they hook better than you.

Has your problem gotten better or worse with the lower control arms?

Yeah man :fm: I'm seriously ready to give up on this car and buy a fox or subaru lol. I'd have rubbing headaches with those 335s and my catback. I need to put the SFCs in forsure but need to get access to a drive on lift first. Yeah you told me you never spun second, just some in first.

Well I never ran it before the lower control arms. Those have been on the car for every pass. With the stock springs I experienced massive wheel hop as if I had no lower control arms. With the H&R's no wheel hop.

 

[98$vt]

Yeah, something is definitely up. On a couple passes it only spun half of second rather than all the way up to 7k.

The front sway bar is connected, just disconect it or remove it?

14psi cold no burn out and you still hooked? I'm just assuming that's what you meant. Someone else mentioned weight transfer before but not sure where to start. I have bilsteins shocks and I know those aren't ideal for drag racing, but they cost me a good chunk of green lol.

Oh and I have the rear seat deleted and passenger seat, but same results regardless.


Yeah man :fm: I'm seriously ready to give up on this car and buy a fox or subaru lol. I'd have rubbing headaches with those 335s and my catback. I need to put the SFCs in forsure but need to get access to a drive on lift first. Yeah you told me you never spun second, just some in first.

Well I never ran it before the lower control arms. Those have been on the car for every pass. With the stock springs I experienced massive wheel hop as if I had no lower control arms. With the H&R's no wheel hop.

Do you spin that bad on the street? Or is it just on the track? And are you just running on firebird or speed world also?

 

[NVRL8TE]

What size DR's?

What are you 1/4 mile mph and times?

 

[98 N/A 4V]

Yeah, something is definitely up. On a couple passes it only spun half of second rather than all the way up to 7k.

The front sway bar is connected, just disconect it or remove it?

14psi cold no burn out and you still hooked? I'm just assuming that's what you meant. Someone else mentioned weight transfer before but not sure where to start. I have bilsteins shocks and I know those aren't ideal for drag racing, but they cost me a good chunk of green lol.

Oh and I have the rear seat deleted and passenger seat, but same results regardless.

14psi was what I set it at in the pits. After my burnout it would be at 16psi.

Definately disconnect your front sway bar. It helps tremendously. It shifts the weight to the rear of the car. When you get done just bolt it back together.

This is proof that disconnecting it works.

1.74 60ft on 275/40/17 w/ 298rwhp.

Is that daylight under the driver's front? :beer:

 

[stangbanger856]

Wow you have a bolt on car with DRs and spin threw 2nd... I have 445 and hook when I hit 2nd at WOT. I would look into some LCAs I you don't have any already the stock.springs work well in the rear just cut one coil and get some adjustable upper arms to set your pinion Angle and +1 on taking the sway bar off That works wonders.

 

[Smacked_in_ATL]

I tried to mention the weight transfer/sway bar idea in one of your previous threads and you didn't seem to think it was relevant. :shrug: I done this track thing a few times

 

[DVJ38]

I hope you drove around the water box this time. Did you? Explain what you did between the time you were waiting in the staging lines and when you tripped the staging beams.

Even without a burnout you should be able to stick on the 1-2 shift. I have about the same mods as you (4.30's last time I went to the track) and my car gripped good expect for the crappy launch on my part (first timer lol) I have relatively stiff springs and shocks/struts also, and kept my sway bar connected. A lot of people run the same type of setup for street driving, then are able to go the the track and not spin the crap out of second gear when they shift.

 

[Expurple]

What is the state of your differential? The clutch packs might be worn resulting in letting all the power go through only one tire.

 

[svtcobralover]

Yeah, something is definitely up. On a couple passes it only spun half of second rather than all the way up to 7k.

The front sway bar is connected, just disconect it or remove it?

14psi cold no burn out and you still hooked? I'm just assuming that's what you meant. Someone else mentioned weight transfer before but not sure where to start. I have bilsteins shocks and I know those aren't ideal for drag racing, but they cost me a good chunk of green lol.

Oh and I have the rear seat deleted and passenger seat, but same results regardless.


Yeah man :fm: I'm seriously ready to give up on this car and buy a fox or subaru lol. I'd have rubbing headaches with those 335s and my catback. I need to put the SFCs in forsure but need to get access to a drive on lift first. Yeah you told me you never spun second, just some in first.

Well I never ran it before the lower control arms. Those have been on the car for every pass. With the stock springs I experienced massive wheel hop as if I had no lower control arms. With the H&R's no wheel hop.

Not to come off as a dick, but this sentence tells me everything I need to know about your experience driving Mustangs and knowledge so forth. No matter what Mustang you switch to from 79-04, the chassis has remained the same. You still have not given clear details as to what exactly you are doing at the race track. There is plenty of info out there to give you a helping hand. Are you driving through the water box and doing a decent burnout? What rpm are you shifting at? My guess is you are launching at 6-7k rpms and just dumping the clutch. Even with a horrible pinion angle you should not be spinning all through second gear.
How about you elaborate on what times and mph you are running along with your 60ft. No one can lend you any help without all the details.

Just my .02c

 

[98$vt]

14psi was what I set it at in the pits. After my burnout it would be at 16psi.

Definately disconnect your front sway bar. It helps tremendously. It shifts the weight to the rear of the car. When you get done just bolt it back together.

This is proof that disconnecting it works.

1.74 60ft on 275/40/17 w/ 298rwhp.

Is that daylight under the driver's front? :beer:

Epic

 

[Bite u]

Like mark said disconnect the front sway... I removed mine as its just dead weight on the front and on a big and little setup the car still handles fine.. Just don't try to road course it... Mine is lowered on h n r springs and I have pulled a 1.76 60'

I don't think mine transferred as well as marks picture shows, but ima assume his car wasn't lowered In the pic judging by the amount of transfer. They say the stock springs r real good for dragging in, just no one likes the 4x4 stance.. Make sure your shocks/ struts in the rear r no to stiff preventing the weight from transferring... Good set or adjustable shocks will help ya out there.

Best advice I can say, is get a buddy, girlfriend, son or someone to video u close up from the side when u run at the track so u can see how the car reacts when u do launch. And go from there

 

[AZSN95SNAKE]

What size DR's?

What are you 1/4 mile mph and times?

I was about to PM you back, but I guess we can post it in here. 315s on a 17x10.5 bullitt wheel.
Best 13.6 @104 2.0 60ft, 13.86 @101 2.1 60ft, 13.9 @ 102 2.1 60ft, the rest have been 14.009-14.3 @ 102 2.3-.5 sixties. All 1/8 mile times were 9+ due to spinning in second.

14psi was what I set it at in the pits. After my burnout it would be at 16psi.

Definately disconnect your front sway bar. It helps tremendously. It shifts the weight to the rear of the car. When you get done just bolt it back together.

This is proof that disconnecting it works.

1.74 60ft on 275/40/17 w/ 298rwhp.

Is that daylight under the driver's front? :beer:

Oh duh sorry brain fart.

Ah than that is something that I need to do. I will most definitely be doing this come next track day.

Holy hell that is an awesome shot! That's definitely daylight on the other side sir! Nice driving. **Right click-save image** What tires was that on?

Wow you have a bolt on car with DRs and spin threw 2nd... I have 445 and hook when I hit 2nd at WOT. I would look into some LCAs I you don't have any already the stock.springs work well in the rear just cut one coil and get some adjustable upper arms to set your pinion Angle and +1 on taking the sway bar off That works wonders.

Yeah its driving me crazy, it does it on the the street as well. Yeah everyone else seems to hook even with your numbers. I have mm LCAs. I have some GT springs that I plan to cut a coil off of; but with the stock springs I am experiencing lots of wheel hop. Wouldn't pinion angle not be a problem if I'm at stock height?

Do you spin that bad on the street? Or is it just on the track? And are you just running on firebird or speed world also?

I spin more at the track. But it does the same thing on the street, just doesn't spin all of second. Just at firebird, the prep there sucks I'm thinking about taking the drive to speed world even though its 1.5 hours away.

 

[Mr.Bolt-on]

What is the state of your differential? The clutch packs might be worn resulting in letting all the power go through only one tire.

Hmmm...Great Idea! I'm going to have to check this on my car too. Op may need to check this as well.

 

[stangbanger856]

Ok when you start spining off the line do you pedal it or just stay in it? If you stay in it then I can see why you spin threw 2nd.

As far as wheel hop with lower control arms and aftermarket shocks I think your shocks are bad.

 

[AZSN95SNAKE]

I tried to mention the weight transfer/sway bar idea in one of your previous threads and you didn't seem to think it was relevant. :shrug: I done this track thing a few times

Yeah I do recall, my bad man. The b head cobra god spoke in that thread about pinion angle so I followed that route. Thanks for the input!

I hope you drove around the water box this time. Did you? Explain what you did between the time you were waiting in the staging lines and when you tripped the staging beams.

Even without a burnout you should be able to stick on the 1-2 shift. I have about the same mods as you (4.30's last time I went to the track) and my car gripped good expect for the crappy launch on my part (first timer lol) I have relatively stiff springs and shocks/struts also, and kept my sway bar connected. A lot of people run the same type of setup for street driving, then are able to go the the track and not spin the crap out of second gear when they shift.

Yes sir I did. I pulled forward and went around the water box completely, straightened out than backed up a bit to right before the water box. Put it in second, and did a lengthy smokey burn out (long enough that the other car was already done with his/hers and staging lol). Slowly released the brakes while doing a burn out moving slightly forward, release the burnout, and pull up to trip the beams. Tripped both lights, than clutched in and held the rpms at 2k-3k rpms (by this I mean I tried multiple rpms through 2 and 3). I wasn't worried about reaction time, and slowly released the clutch and gave it a bit more gas as to not roast the tires when the light turned green. As soon as I caught traction I mashed it until 7k rpms, than I shifted into second as fast as I could and the rear end let loose and actually almost felt like it wanted to slip sideways or did and than the spinning began all the way to 7k rpms (never let my foot off the gas, but did on other runs and as soon as I did stopped spinning and went back into it and no more spinning), than shifted into 3rd and fourth as normal and chirped both those gears.

I could not agree more. I've seen tons of other mustangs not having these issues lowered with stiff springs and non drag racing shocks/struts. Exactly, other mustangs with the same set up or similar don't have this issue. That's what is driving me nuts. Pinion angle could be a problem, but if I went back to stock springs to test it out and it still spun second horribly than I'm not sure that's the problem. Going to have to make the long drive to speedworld.

What is the state of your differential? The clutch packs might be worn resulting in letting all the power go through only one tire.

Rebuilt with new everything back there.

Not to come off as a dick, but this sentence tells me everything I need to know about your experience driving Mustangs and knowledge so forth. No matter what Mustang you switch to from 79-04, the chassis has remained the same. You still have not given clear details as to what exactly you are doing at the race track. There is plenty of info out there to give you a helping hand. Are you driving through the water box and doing a decent burnout? What rpm are you shifting at? My guess is you are launching at 6-7k rpms and just dumping the clutch. Even with a horrible pinion angle you should not be spinning all through second gear.
How about you elaborate on what times and mph you are running along with your 60ft. No one can lend you any help without all the details.

Just my .02c

Lol no offense taken man but its not good to assume. With the wanting a fox statement, I meant that I want to get a fox because I have been wanting one for some time now (almost like using this issue as an excuse to buy one lol); not because I thought it was a different platform lol. Your guess is completely wrong, but true I didn't elaborate on what happened at the track. For clear details look at the post directed towards DJV up top. The times are in post #15 a few posts up as well. I also don't mean to come off like a DB in this post, just saying assumptions are just that assumptions. I would appreciate any help you can offer though

 

[CamCobra10]

Not trying to hack this thread, well guess I am now.....just put on team z upper lowers, anti roll bar and torque boxes today... I have subframes, 5 way tokio adjustables around with eibach springs...here's my deal, will the springs and tokio adjustables be ok with the setup, I know there's better parts out there, but will it make that much more of a difference for the money it will cost.

 

[DVJ38]

Yes sir I did. I pulled forward and went around the water box completely, straightened out than backed up a bit to right before the water box. Put it in second, and did a lengthy smokey burn out (long enough that the other car was already done with his/hers and staging lol). Slowly released the brakes while doing a burn out moving slightly forward, release the burnout, and pull up to trip the beams. Tripped both lights, than clutched in and held the rpms at 2k-3k rpms (by this I mean I tried multiple rpms through 2 and 3). I wasn't worried about reaction time, and slowly released the clutch and gave it a bit more gas as to not roast the tires when the light turned green. As soon as I caught traction I mashed it until 7k rpms, than I shifted into second as fast as I could and the rear end let loose and actually almost felt like it wanted to slip sideways or did and than the spinning began all the way to 7k rpms (never let my foot off the gas, but did on other runs and as soon as I did stopped spinning and went back into it and no more spinning), than shifted into 3rd and fourth as normal and chirped both those gears.

I could not agree more. I've seen tons of other mustangs not having these issues lowered with stiff springs and non drag racing shocks/struts. Exactly, other mustangs with the same set up or similar don't have this issue. That's what is driving me nuts. Pinion angle could be a problem, but if I went back to stock springs to test it out and it still spun second horribly than I'm not sure that's the problem. Going to have to make the long drive to speedworld.

Good entire post, but I'm just going to quote this part. You are doing the waterbox and burnout part correctly imo. It sounds like you launch and can drive it in first gear well enough when you launch right, but for some reason it really is the second gear shift that's killing you. I don't even think the pinion angle is the problem. It's funny that you say it doesnt happen on the street, only the track. Go to Speedworld its fun. Some nights are stickier than others. See if you can go the same night an event is happening and they alternate test and tune and the event. They prep real well for the event and you reap the bennefits lol. Call ahead to make sure.