Toyota: "**** EVs"

[DSG2003Mach1]

And Waste Management will pass on every penny it costs to customers in municipalities mandating them.

as they should

I know of one municipality down here that received zero bids because of the way they structured the contract for EV resi trucks and another is being sued by all bidders for changing the bid spec to include the trucks. Who in their right mind is going to buy these trucks, the chargers and all the money to install them for a one year contract

 

[OX1]

an ICE powered automated side arm truck that picks up your curb side cans costs around 350k and will do around 1200 cans in a route. The equivalent EV truck is around 700k without the charger and will do around 700 cans in a day.

So it costs over 2x as much and does around 60% of the work.

For S and G, look at a new EV bobcat. $200K, vs $70K typical. Bobcat Introduces All-Electric Compact Track Loader, Sees Future in EVs

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

For S and G, look at a new EV bobcat. $200K, vs $70K typical. Bobcat Introduces All-Electric Compact Track Loader, Sees Future in EVs

the actuators replacing hydraulics is interesting/potentially a win depending on useful life and replacement cost.

 

[GTSpartan]

Toyota just saying what the other OEM's are thinking but are afraid to do so.

Bravo Toyota

 

[2011 gtcs]

I'm a Lexus Master technician and I'm Hybrid certified. Toyota/Lexus has probably the best Hybrid vehicles with next to no battery issues. and we're doing plug in Hybrids now. Those are the best of both worlds IMO, you still get a 50 mile range with it being electric and than the gas engine kicks on. We only have one full electric vehicle currently for sale. But Toyota is making the right call on this.

 

[Corbic]

Toyota just saying what the other OEM's are thinking but are afraid to do so.

Bravo Toyota

Also, to be cynical.

EVs put the Japanese at a disadvantage. They have no access to the materials needed to construct the batteries and are not on friendly terms with the primary manufacturer of these things - aka China.

I know Toyota invested heavily in their Cam-Less Variable Displacement Hybrid engine system. Toyota also knows they are "To Big to Fail" and the Japanese Government will back them.

 

[Weather Man]

Also, to be cynical.

EVs put the Japanese at a disadvantage. They have no access to the materials needed to construct the batteries and are not on friendly terms with the primary manufacturer of these things - aka China.

I know Toyota invested heavily in their Cam-Less Variable Displacement Hybrid engine system. Toyota also knows they are "To Big to Fail" and the Japanese Government will back them.

When these ICE bans blow sky high in spectacular fashion, and they will, the brands that somehow kept ICE in the back pocket are gonna make a killing.

 

[GTSpartan]

Also, to be cynical.

EVs put the Japanese at a disadvantage. They have no access to the materials needed to construct the batteries and are not on friendly terms with the primary manufacturer of these things - aka China.

I know Toyota invested heavily in their Cam-Less Variable Displacement Hybrid engine system. Toyota also knows they are "To Big to Fail" and the Japanese Government will back them.

Agreed, but they are not to be discounted at all.

Toyota is infinitely better run than virtually every other OEM (especially the U.S. car companies), and are the silent juggernauts of the automobile industry. They are ridiculously disciplined, avoid the limelight, and silently dominate. When they make a move, it's like tectonic plates shifting.

 

[Silverstrike]

When these ICE bans blow sky high in spectacular fashion, and they will, the brands that somehow kept ICE in the back pocket are gonna make a killing.

This is the 1970's all over again, where the Japanese never really gave up on the sub and compact car class and made a killing in the USD market as the big 3 had no small cars but lumbering gas guzzling dino's in 1973+. There is a reason Detroit lost almost 40% of the market to the Japanese and a round about way to VW during the mid 70's onward and have been on the back foot ever since.

You'er right in that this EV garbage is going to be curtailed majorly when the grid is overtaxed, and once Mr Emptyheads is gone.

 

[OX1]

the actuators replacing hydraulics is interesting/potentially a win depending on useful life and replacement cost.

My 753 is pushing 25 years old and I beat the living crap out of it (and it was totally beat to crap before I even got it). One of the best products I've ever owned.

I don't see useful life getting better than that, especially with the full electronics pack that will have to come with one of them (as if they did not already have too much in electronics).

 

[OX1]

I'm a Lexus Master technician and I'm Hybrid certified. Toyota/Lexus has probably the best Hybrid vehicles with next to no battery issues. and we're doing plug in Hybrids now. Those are the best of both worlds IMO, you still get a 50 mile range with it being electric and than the gas engine kicks on. We only have one full electric vehicle currently for sale. But Toyota is making the right call on this.

And the EV cultest are telling "us" that battery tech is going to quadrouple range for half the price, with 5 minutes recharge times, by next week. So that 50 mile range will be 200 real soon (in the same battery space), so why not a hybrid.

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

My 753 is pushing 25 years old and I beat the living crap out of it (and it was totally beat to crap before I even got it). One of the best products I've ever owned.

I don't see useful life getting better than that, especially with the full electronics pack that will have to come with one of them (as if they did not already have too much in electronics).

we use our Cat skid loaders in a processing plant so hydraulic hoses/fittings/cylinders are definitely an ongoing issue. Although I think we probably have more issues due to the grapplers on the bucket

 

[Bullitt1448]

the actuators replacing hydraulics is interesting/potentially a win depending on useful life and replacement cost.

I could see those being useful inside buildings and underground. Places where CO is a concern

 

[Klaus]

an ICE powered automated side arm truck that picks up your curb side cans costs around 350k and will do around 1200 cans in a route. The equivalent EV truck is around 700k without the charger and will do around 700 cans in a day.

So it costs over 2x as much and does around 60% of the work.

Saving the earth ain't cheap, bro.

It turns out "green policies" are really just a regressive consumption tax.

 

[2011 gtcs]

And the EV cultest are telling "us" that battery tech is going to quadrouple range for half the price, with 5 minutes recharge times, by next week. So that 50 mile range will be 200 real soon (in the same battery space), so why not a hybrid.

Lol, they're in for a rude awakening, battery size and temperatures plays a big role in that.

 

[MFE]

Most of the car manufacturers, with the notable exception of Toyota, are sucking the government's dick and skipping straight past Hybrids to full Battery EV's.

Fun fact: Transportation, in ALL its forms and for all its purposes, only contributes 15% of greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S. So even if we could somehow make transportation zero-emission and still barely make a dent in total GHG emissions.

Something like 16 states are expected to follow suit with California's zero-ICE-sales-by-2035 mandate. That means no hybrids, just plug-in battery cars. More fun facts I learned last month:

- We’d have to be building 400 charging stations *per day* to enable the capacity that will be required by upcoming regulations.
- Meanwhile 3 Hybrids save as much carbon footprint as one BEV at a fraction of the environmental and carbon damage caused by producing the BEV.
- Toyota has built 19 million Hybrid’s globally to date, with the same contribution to reduced GHG’s as 6 million BEV’s. Nowhere near 6 million BEV’s have been sold. Here’s the thing: For the same amount of materials and environmental impact it’s taken Toyota to build all those HEV’s, they’d only be able to produce 300,000 BEV’s. IOW, the true cost of BEV’s is staggering.
- And, China controls something like 75% of the mining, processing, and distribution of the minerals needed for the batteries, the U.S. produces pretty much none of it. “We are literally handing all of our mobility capability to a country who could stop us in their tracks when the time is right”.
- 350 new mines are needed to meet the demand required by upcoming legislation and it usually takes 10 years between discovery and production of a mine.

 

[Mackie]

Tesla is worth $473B. Toyota is worth $192B.

 

[derklug]

Looks like an excellent use for landfill methane.

We run CNG busses here and we just hooked up with a methane producer. The CNG engines don't last as long as a diesel, but they are still better than electric.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Tesla is worth $473B. Toyota is worth $192B.

Simply because Tesla is seen as a tech company. Their depth in the automotive industry pales in comparison to Toyota especially.

 

[SID297]

Simply because Tesla is seen as a tech company. Their depth in the automotive industry pales in comparison to Toyota especially.

Bingo. Same with any traditional auto maker. Just imagine how much the land holdings of Ford is compared to Tesla. Tesla's greatest value is not being constrained by traditional car building ideas. Casting technology comes to mine.