TOB update - Found problem, Ford's screwing me! Please read.

[03Sssnake]

Originally posted by Elapidae
NetworkingGuru,

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

2 questions:

1) If people are replacing the 03 Spec T-56 with the Viper Spec T-56, what are they doing about the retainer sleeve? As stated on the first page, the Viper spec sleeve won't work?

2) Does the full tranny replacement under warranty resolve this problem long term or are they just putting in a tranny with identical sleeve design that will fail again in 10K miles?

Thanks.

I have the viper spec T-56 (it will of course come with input shaft TOB sleeve). I had to buy a new clutch and pressure plate to accomadate the 26 spline input shaft vs the 10 spline from ford. The clutch is RAM "Powergrip" with "900 series" pressure plate, it will come with new TOB. A new shorter DShaft is needed as well as a new crossmember. Jeff at ABT fabbed mine in 30 mins. I got the dshaft from quartermaster 22.5" vs 23.5' . I believe the output shaft is 33 or 31 spline? PM me if you want the finer details, I can give you Jeffs phone #/email. he can also be found at www.austinareastangs.com he has an ad there...I have pics of the new trans I can email as well..

 

[Elapidae]

Originally posted by 03Sssnake
I have the viper spec T-56 (it will of course come with input shaft TOB sleeve). I had to buy a new clutch and pressure plate to accomadate the 26 spline input shaft vs the 10 spline from ford. The clutch is RAM "Powergrip" with "900 series" pressure plate, it will come with new TOB. A new shorter DShaft is needed as well as a new crossmember. Jeff at ABT fabbed mine in 30 mins. I got the dshaft from quartermaster 22.5" vs 23.5' . I believe the output shaft is 33 or 31 spline? PM me if you want the finer details, I can give you Jeffs phone #/email. he can also be found at www.austinareastangs.com he has an ad there...I have pics of the new trans I can email as well..

Wow! Thanks for the info on question 1. I think I would go that route before paying 3K for another 10spline. I'm surprised that the Viper Spec T-56 is an inch longer. Thanks again.

 

[03Sssnake]

Originally posted by Elapidae
Wow! Thanks for the info on question 1. I think I would go that route before paying 3K for another 10spline. I'm surprised that the Viper Spec T-56 is an inch longer. Thanks again.

Here is Jeffs email

[email protected]

I think the new bellhousing that came with the viper spec added the extra 1". If I recall correctly, the tranny by itself was the same length, or perhaps it was the rear housing that was longer??? Hard to measure these things from the pics I have ;-)

 

[Shadowgray03]

Originally posted by Elapidae
Wow! Thanks for the info on question 1. I think I would go that route before paying 3K for another 10spline. I'm surprised that the Viper Spec T-56 is an inch longer. Thanks again.

The Viper spec will also require exhaust changes and as far as I know will not work with any aftermarket X pipes out there so if thats the rout you go be prepared to do some exhaust mods as well. Maybe those who have done the swap can give more details on this.

 

[stang99]

This entire thread is very distressing to me since I may end up with the exact same problem. My Spec2 and flywheel is out for delivery to me some time today by UPS. My TOB is making so much noise that I stayed home from work for a couple of day. I willl have my mechanic check the TOB retainer and if it is shot, I will have to attempt to get a replacement from Ford under warranty. However, even though I am good friends with a mechanic at the dealership, my dealer is not a particularly mod friendly dealer. This, I believe, is because they fear SVT and the field engineer. A mechanic would have a difficult time claiming that they didn't see any mods when the car had a catted x-pipe/intake etc.
A final thought on the TOB retainer issue: Even if the TOB is welded in, it is part of an larger assembly that would still not be the entire tranny. I will have to go to Tremec, or out on the web, to see how the case is constructed. But, at the most, one would have to buy a case rather than an entire tranny. The case should not cost $3000, and it should be available as a separate part.

 

[Shadowgray03]

Originally posted by Tetge
A final thought on the TOB retainer issue: Even if the TOB is welded in, it is part of an larger assembly that would still not be the entire tranny. I will have to go to Tremec, or out on the web, to see how the case is constructed. But, at the most, one would have to buy a case rather than an entire tranny. The case should not cost $3000, and it should be available as a separate part.

here is a link to the T56 service majual.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/Englis...6-0610-0199.pdf

 

[jtfx6552]

Originally posted by 03Sssnake
I have the viper spec T-56 (it will of course come with input shaft TOB sleeve). I had to buy a new clutch and pressure plate to accomadate the 26 spline input shaft vs the 10 spline from ford. The clutch is RAM "Powergrip" with "900 series" pressure plate, it will come with new TOB. A new shorter DShaft is needed as well as a new crossmember. Jeff at ABT fabbed mine in 30 mins. I got the dshaft from quartermaster 22.5" vs 23.5' . I believe the output shaft is 33 or 31 spline? PM me if you want the finer details, I can give you Jeffs phone #/email. he can also be found at www.austinareastangs.com he has an ad there...I have pics of the new trans I can email as well..

I'm in the market for a new clutch and PP. My TOB is not making amy noise, yet anyway.

I'm interested in what you think of the Ram clutch on the street. Is it "featherable"? How is it for pedal pressure?

I was also think of moving to the viper spec trans. Supposedly, McLeod is close to releasing a blow proof bellhousing for the Ford T-56 and the mod motor. I guess the viper trans mounts different, and that bellhousing won't work?

JT

 

[03Sssnake]

Originally posted by Shadowgray03
The Viper spec will also require exhaust changes and as far as I know will not work with any aftermarket X pipes out there so if thats the rout you go be prepared to do some exhaust mods as well. Maybe those who have done the swap can give more details on this.

Not in my case. I was able to retain my bassani x-pipe with cats.

 

[03Sssnake]

Originally posted by jtfx6552
I'm in the market for a new clutch and PP. My TOB is not making amy noise, yet anyway.

I'm interested in what you think of the Ram clutch on the street. Is it "featherable"? How is it for pedal pressure?

I was also think of moving to the viper spec trans. Supposedly, McLeod is close to releasing a blow proof bellhousing for the Ford T-56 and the mod motor. I guess the viper trans mounts different, and that bellhousing won't work?

JT

I used the ram "power grip" clutch, its a bit grabby, but by no means on/off..You can ride it out. I opted to use the 900 series pressure plate at Jeffs recomendation. A RAM 900 series clutch as I understand it, is ON/OFF....

 

[Elapidae]

Originally posted by 03Sssnake
Here is Jeffs email

[email protected]

I think the new bellhousing that came with the viper spec added the extra 1". If I recall correctly, the tranny by itself was the same length, or perhaps it was the rear housing that was longer??? Hard to measure these things from the pics I have ;-)

Thanks again. Found his add. I wonder if I bring a weed eater and trim around his shop if he'll give me a price break. LOL <jk> ;-)

 

[03Sssnake]

Originally posted by Elapidae
Thanks again. Found his add. I wonder if I bring a weed eater and trim around his shop if he'll give me a price break. LOL <jk> ;-)

LOL, maybe...He is pretty fair on labor, and will not have the need to due any R&D. Mine was the first swap he did in an 03. I have some decent pics if anyone cares to post them, I can email them.

 

[NetworkingGuru]

OK guys. My bro hand sanded the retainer, put everything back on, and I think it's fixed. The retainer looks about 1,000,000 times better after sanding, and you can't feel the divot in it any more. The new SPEC TOB is composite (feels like plastic), and I can't see it eating into the steel retainer, so it looks like this might be a permanent fix. It does not squeel at all so far, but I don't know how it will hold. I am driving back to NC tonight (680 miles), and if it is still good, I am going to take it to the track for final testing. If it lives through that, I think we can safely say that this is the fix.

BTW, on the retainer welded or not issue, the viper tech said he can't see it being welded. We took the nose off of the T-56, and the nose appears to be aluminum, while the retainer is almost definitely some grade of steel. Those two don't weld together real well. He said it looks pressed in to him.

 

[03cobrablack]

I hope it is fixed let us know when you get done "testing" at the track.

 

[NetworkingGuru]

Sigh. OK guys, bad news. The retainer still isn't sqeaking at idle, so sanding seemed to solve that problem, but it still squeels like a stuck pig at 5K+ RPMs in any gear at full boost. My guess is that squeeling is the clutch slipping because the TOB is binding on the retainer and putting too much pressure on the pressure plate to allow for full engagement. I don't have any other plausible explanation.

Anyhow, I am going to take it into the dealer when I get back from this trip (2 weeks). We shall see what the rep says :xpl:

After a bit of digging through the Tremec service manual, this is what I came up with (see attatchment). The circled area is the Ford front unit (nose), that we took off of the tranny. The TOB retainer appears to be pressed into this peice, similar to the illustration of the GM unit (arrowed area). You'll notice that Tremec does not even list parts included in these units. THey appear to be the responsibility of the tranny Mfg. So here's what I'm thinking. A new tranny is not needed if Ford won't sell you the part. However, you will need to buy the Viper spec input shaft kit, if it is available. One of two things will be true about this kit. Either A) It will require a new retainer, which means that it will have it's own nose section included in the kit, or B) It will reuse the existing nose section, which means the TOB retainer must be exactly the same for the Viper and Ford units. If A) is correct (most likely scenario), then once you switch to the Viper spec input shaft, you can buy the TOB retainer for the viper if you have this problem in the future. If B) is correct, then we can just buy the Viper spec retainer now and use it, assuming we can determine how to remove the retainer and install the new one. It APPEARS to be pressed in place, which could pose problems though. All I know is that I will SPECIFICALLY request to speak to the rep in person when I take my car in. If they will not allow that, then I'll simply camp out at the dealership, wait for him/her to come in to look at my car, and ambush his a$$ as he is trying to sneak out. The question of why we cannot purchase such a simple component (or even the nose section, if need be), is one that we deserve an answer to.

Sorry for the book :read:

 

[DRIVINGLESSON]

give these guys a try


http://www.transmissionsandtransfer...ttc-tremec.html

 

[DRIVINGLESSON]

http://www.transmissionsandtransfercases.com/ttc-tremec.html


sorry

 

[stang99]

I had the noise at the higher RPM's prior to the collaspe of my tranny. I looked at the same diagram that you posted but the TOB retainer was not shown attached to the tranny case piece that was labled as the Ford part. I see that you circled it on the Viper piece, but since it attached to the Ford piece, why wasn't it shown on the drawing by Tremec. You can see the GM piece with the four bolts holding it. Very strange stuff all around.
I guess you'll have to keep tuned to these stations to find out the final results. I still love my Cobra, but I don't know if I will be able to live with it if its component parts are not servicable in a reasonable fashion. The lack of reasonably priced parts to service my car is my only major complaint here. I have constantly proven that I am willing to pay for my mods, but, if Ford makes it impossible to fix the car, where are my options?

Originally posted by NetworkingGuru
Sigh. OK guys, bad news. The retainer still isn't sqeaking at idle, so sanding seemed to solve that problem, but it still squeels like a stuck pig at 5K+ RPMs in any gear at full boost. My guess is that squeeling is the clutch slipping because the TOB is binding on the retainer and putting too much pressure on the pressure plate to allow for full engagement. I don't have any other plausible explanation.

Anyhow, I am going to take it into the dealer when I get back from this trip (2 weeks). We shall see what the rep says :xpl:

After a bit of digging through the Tremec service manual, this is what I came up with (see attatchment). The circled area is the Ford front unit (nose), that we took off of the tranny. The TOB retainer appears to be pressed into this peice, similar to the illustration of the GM unit (arrowed area). You'll notice that Tremec does not even list parts included in these units. THey appear to be the responsibility of the tranny Mfg. So here's what I'm thinking. A new tranny is not needed if Ford won't sell you the part. However, you will need to buy the Viper spec input shaft kit, if it is available. One of two things will be true about this kit. Either A) It will require a new retainer, which means that it will have it's own nose section included in the kit, or B) It will reuse the existing nose section, which means the TOB retainer must be exactly the same for the Viper and Ford units. If A) is correct (most likely scenario), then once you switch to the Viper spec input shaft, you can buy the TOB retainer for the viper if you have this problem in the future. If B) is correct, then we can just buy the Viper spec retainer now and use it, assuming we can determine how to remove the retainer and install the new one. It APPEARS to be pressed in place, which could pose problems though. All I know is that I will SPECIFICALLY request to speak to the rep in person when I take my car in. If they will not allow that, then I'll simply camp out at the dealership, wait for him/her to come in to look at my car, and ambush his a$$ as he is trying to sneak out. The question of why we cannot purchase such a simple component (or even the nose section, if need be), is one that we deserve an answer to.

Sorry for the book :read:

 

[BlownShift]

"The guide tube is pressed on. I have a 20-ton shop
press that I used to get mine off and back on.

You can buy replacements from Tremec or one of their
authorized parts distributors (around $25 or so), or
get a "beefier" version from D&D that they use in
their Viper spec transmission, for $60 or so. The D&D
version is longer, so you need to cut it down to the
same length as your guide tube.

The only problem I had with the D&D version, is that
it did not fit as snugly as it should have. It backed
out 2 or 3 weeks later, and I had to remove the tranny
and repair the guide tube. Grrrr.

I ended up taking mine to a machine shop, had the seat
built up a bit, then milled down, so that when I
pressed it back in, it was a very tight fit the 2nd
time. Seems to be holding now.

If you buy one from D&D, might want to ask them if
they had to revise it since selling me one a few
months ago.

Coop"

=======================

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=296442&highlight=t56

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=251369&highlight=t56

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=245987&highlight=t56

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=164914&highlight=t56

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=79963&highlight=t56

etc, etc... Give Coop an email, he seems to have quite some experience or give D&D a call...

 

[NetworkingGuru]

BlownShift,

I called D&D. I asked if they sold the bearing retainers for the T-56, and they said yes. They asked for my application, and I said 03 Cobra. They said sorry, can't sell it to you, only Ford can :shrug:

Originally posted by BlownShift
"The guide tube is pressed on. I have a 20-ton shop
press that I used to get mine off and back on.

You can buy replacements from Tremec or one of their
authorized parts distributors (around $25 or so), or
get a "beefier" version from D&D that they use in
their Viper spec transmission, for $60 or so. The D&D
version is longer, so you need to cut it down to the
same length as your guide tube.

The only problem I had with the D&D version, is that
it did not fit as snugly as it should have. It backed
out 2 or 3 weeks later, and I had to remove the tranny
and repair the guide tube. Grrrr.

I ended up taking mine to a machine shop, had the seat
built up a bit, then milled down, so that when I
pressed it back in, it was a very tight fit the 2nd
time. Seems to be holding now.

If you buy one from D&D, might want to ask them if
they had to revise it since selling me one a few
months ago.

Coop"

=======================

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=296442&highlight=t56

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=251369&highlight=t56

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=245987&highlight=t56

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=164914&highlight=t56

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=79963&highlight=t56

etc, etc... Give Coop an email, he seems to have quite some experience or give D&D a call...

 

[JoeAsheville]

Guru,

Sounds like you need to get a buddy to call back and ask for the retainer...and say he owns a Viper. :shrug:

This is starting to get spooky. I hope I don't have troubles...but I prolly just jinxed myself right there.

Let us know how you get along.