Nope.
Thinking of going Boost
- Thread starter Jabooh1
- Start date
Nope.
If at all possible...can you share what each had to say? And which way you're leaning?
Wayne
I haven't had the chance to call beefcake yet. On the agenda for tomorrow. I did spend about an hour with BJ at VMP. After I get a chance to talk to both companies I will write up what my views are.
I am sure there are difficulties with adding a blower but people do road race their GT500's, Cobra's, and any other car that was FI from the factory or added after the fact.
I will end up with a dedicated track car (American Iron) and then not take my Boss (Daily Driver) on the track much after. Last year I witnessed a $1.1M accident involving two MP4-12C's and that left a sour taste in my mouth. The Boss is only $50k but still, too much to risk when I can get in a AI for $10-$12k.
As indicated I contacted both a premier TVS and Centrifugal blower companies… VMP and Beefcake. Beefcake was especially unique as they sell not only centri style but also the Roush TVS kit. Below are the points I took away from the conversations. Hopefully I didn’t interpret them incorrectly!
VMP
I called and got directed to BJ at VMP. Honestly a little surprised that I was able to talk to him for 45 minutes. BT indicated that he drives a 2007 GT500. He noted that there are a few key differences between his and my 2013 Boss Laguna Seca. Mostly the Knock Sensors and Wideband. BJ’s ’07 GT500 has roughly 54,000 miles, over 450 ¼ passes, and over 100 dyno sessions. It is sitting at roughly 750rwhp.
I indicated to BJ my main concerns of heat soak during driving in Texas and that I still wanted to be able to do 20-25 minutes road course passes till I get my AI car. BJ said that with multiple back to back ¼ miles trips his car hit about 150* (IAT2) and he parked it. Waited a little bit and then started it up again to do more passes. Initially the temp was high due to radiant heat (I don’t remember the value) but after 1-2 minutes of circulation from the H/E pump and the dual fans running (equivalent to roughly 45mph cruising) the temps were back down to ~120*. This shows the efficiency of the H/E.
In discussing reliability the boost level I was looking for (<10 psi) doesn’t adversely affect the engine too much. Especially since the Boss is a little better built than the standard GT. I wouldn’t need a fuel booster pump and 47# injectors would be plenty adequate. He definitely recommended the Stage 2 kit as it is the Stage 1 plus the dual fan H/E. Bigger injectors or a fuel booster pump would be overkill for my situation.
Random Points: The VMP kit comes with a IAT2 sensor already in the unit and you splice the wires to the PCM so it can be viewed. The OEM strut tower brace may or may not clear. Should have no issues passing emissions (my car still has cats). 600 rwhp should be attainable from the 83mm pulley. A centri kit is a slightly easier installation.
Beefcake
When I called Beefcake a couple days later I was able to talk to Gary for over 30 minutes. My discussion was a little different with him. I had already started leaning to the PD style and wanted to know the advantages of a Centri over the PD style blower. A lot have been mentioned in posts above (i.e. installation ease, less heat transfer, cheaper, higher potential boost, etc.). My focus was with the Vortech kit as I wanted something that would disappear as much as a big freakin blower can and the Vortech comes in black.
Gary informed me that there are a few advantages over a PD for a Centri. Less stress on the engine, around $1,000 cheaper for the kit, heat soak would take longer, and torque curve is more linear so easier to drive. For me my budget could handle the PD or Centri so that wasn’t a big issue. Yes its nice to save some money but at the end that isn’t a deciding factor. For traffic driving a Centri might be easier. You really don’t feel the blower till about 3,500 rpm and then it still comes in gradually. A PD is instant and peaks and plateaus faster. My goal of 600 rwhp is obtainable with an entry level kit. The kits use air-to-air H/E’s unlike the VMP air-to-water.
Summary
For my goals the entry level boost of a Centri or PD will get me there. It really is a question of “where do you want your power?” If you are going all out all the time and stay in the upper RPM range a centri is more geared to that style. If you drive between 2k and 5k you would be leaving a lot on table with a centri and a PD may be a better fit.
My goals are low enough that neither kit really strains the engine more than the other. The costs are close (within about $1000) of each other. I just need to decide where I want my power. Yes it can be accomplished with RPM management (down or up shifting). But I usually gravitate to a certain RPM range when driving around town.
Conclusion
For the last few days after talking to both companies I have thought about where I want the power and where the needle is normally positioned on the tach. For me I am usually around 2,500 – 6,000. Reviewing dyno curves of a PD (VMP TVS), the Vortech ones I can find, and my current car’s dyno, I find myself more suited toward a PD style blower. I feel the torque curve is more suited for my driving style with a PD and that I will get more bang for the buck with a PD over a centri. In addition a PD style blower looks better to me.
It was great to be able to spend that much time with BJ and Gary!! I really do appreciate it guys.
I hope I conveyed the information correctly and that someone else will benefit from this. My plans are to get a TVS kit before the end of the year and try to do the install over around Christmas when I don’t need my car for a few days.
VMP
I called and got directed to BJ at VMP. Honestly a little surprised that I was able to talk to him for 45 minutes. BT indicated that he drives a 2007 GT500. He noted that there are a few key differences between his and my 2013 Boss Laguna Seca. Mostly the Knock Sensors and Wideband. BJ’s ’07 GT500 has roughly 54,000 miles, over 450 ¼ passes, and over 100 dyno sessions. It is sitting at roughly 750rwhp.
I indicated to BJ my main concerns of heat soak during driving in Texas and that I still wanted to be able to do 20-25 minutes road course passes till I get my AI car. BJ said that with multiple back to back ¼ miles trips his car hit about 150* (IAT2) and he parked it. Waited a little bit and then started it up again to do more passes. Initially the temp was high due to radiant heat (I don’t remember the value) but after 1-2 minutes of circulation from the H/E pump and the dual fans running (equivalent to roughly 45mph cruising) the temps were back down to ~120*. This shows the efficiency of the H/E.
In discussing reliability the boost level I was looking for (<10 psi) doesn’t adversely affect the engine too much. Especially since the Boss is a little better built than the standard GT. I wouldn’t need a fuel booster pump and 47# injectors would be plenty adequate. He definitely recommended the Stage 2 kit as it is the Stage 1 plus the dual fan H/E. Bigger injectors or a fuel booster pump would be overkill for my situation.
Random Points: The VMP kit comes with a IAT2 sensor already in the unit and you splice the wires to the PCM so it can be viewed. The OEM strut tower brace may or may not clear. Should have no issues passing emissions (my car still has cats). 600 rwhp should be attainable from the 83mm pulley. A centri kit is a slightly easier installation.
Beefcake
When I called Beefcake a couple days later I was able to talk to Gary for over 30 minutes. My discussion was a little different with him. I had already started leaning to the PD style and wanted to know the advantages of a Centri over the PD style blower. A lot have been mentioned in posts above (i.e. installation ease, less heat transfer, cheaper, higher potential boost, etc.). My focus was with the Vortech kit as I wanted something that would disappear as much as a big freakin blower can and the Vortech comes in black.
Gary informed me that there are a few advantages over a PD for a Centri. Less stress on the engine, around $1,000 cheaper for the kit, heat soak would take longer, and torque curve is more linear so easier to drive. For me my budget could handle the PD or Centri so that wasn’t a big issue. Yes its nice to save some money but at the end that isn’t a deciding factor. For traffic driving a Centri might be easier. You really don’t feel the blower till about 3,500 rpm and then it still comes in gradually. A PD is instant and peaks and plateaus faster. My goal of 600 rwhp is obtainable with an entry level kit. The kits use air-to-air H/E’s unlike the VMP air-to-water.
Summary
For my goals the entry level boost of a Centri or PD will get me there. It really is a question of “where do you want your power?” If you are going all out all the time and stay in the upper RPM range a centri is more geared to that style. If you drive between 2k and 5k you would be leaving a lot on table with a centri and a PD may be a better fit.
My goals are low enough that neither kit really strains the engine more than the other. The costs are close (within about $1000) of each other. I just need to decide where I want my power. Yes it can be accomplished with RPM management (down or up shifting). But I usually gravitate to a certain RPM range when driving around town.
Conclusion
For the last few days after talking to both companies I have thought about where I want the power and where the needle is normally positioned on the tach. For me I am usually around 2,500 – 6,000. Reviewing dyno curves of a PD (VMP TVS), the Vortech ones I can find, and my current car’s dyno, I find myself more suited toward a PD style blower. I feel the torque curve is more suited for my driving style with a PD and that I will get more bang for the buck with a PD over a centri. In addition a PD style blower looks better to me.
It was great to be able to spend that much time with BJ and Gary!! I really do appreciate it guys.
I hope I conveyed the information correctly and that someone else will benefit from this. My plans are to get a TVS kit before the end of the year and try to do the install over around Christmas when I don’t need my car for a few days.
^^^^ Very insightful review. Thank you for sharing the information and your thoughts. I think the questions you asked are ones that a lot of us have. Did VMP say that you would be limited to 7,000 rpm? Not that you would necessarily need to go above that...I'm sure the TVS peaks and there is no advantage to spinning it faster.
Wayne
Wayne
When BJ understood it was a boss he indicated that with the forged internals I could go much higher boost and rev to 7500 -8000 easy. I have no plans of that and instead just put the forged internals in the reliability column.
The Roush & VMP TVS don't really peak out on a Coyote motor. They just keep making power! A Boss can rev even higher...
Here's my graph when I first installed the Roush... It has an extra 25 or 30whp now...
Attachments
Torque curve looks a little weird. What's with the double peak and dip in the middle?
JaboohI,
Good info and thanks for passing it on. I thought that I would never go Supercharger on my Boss, but recently, I've decided to make the plunge and really enjoy the added performance.
For me, the decision will be Whipple or VMP.
Good info and thanks for passing it on. I thought that I would never go Supercharger on my Boss, but recently, I've decided to make the plunge and really enjoy the added performance.
For me, the decision will be Whipple or VMP.
Thanks for posting....Guess I thought the centri type blowers were the high rpm units and the pd's were good from the get go but starting losing at the top end. Now I know better...thanks. I don't think it would be necessary to spin a boosted Boss to the absolute max....just nice to know 7,000-7,500 is very reasonable.
Thanks Again,
Wayne
I am leaning VMP. The shop I heard of likes Kenne Bell though. The KB just has a lot more potential but with my concern of reliability potential is usually dangerous!
We need to get a group buy on VMP.
We need to get a group buy on VMP.
I think it's just the way Lidio eases into the throttle on a dyno pull...
My GT is an auto, and it shifts itself around 7300 to 7500rpm on the stock motor... No worries on a Boss!
I agree with you....but for me...it's going to be 2015 upgrade. Also, have you factored in for billet oil pump set? I'm thinking the one from TSS is what I'll ultimately go with.
Wayne
I need to do my oil pump gear research. I thought it was a higher hp issue.
I think the issue can be both HP and crank strain, I think since those blowers put extra strain on the crank you could get a failure.
Honestly I hadn't considered it because you don't need to get into the engine when adding a VMP TVS I don't believe. Parts and labor are probably another $1,000.
Depending how you drive, I think you could get by running in cooler weather and keeping the RPMs down. Heat is already for a lot of Bosses once the ambient temp is over 80* or so.
But if you drive like your hair is on fire at the track...then I think you should either forget the blower or forget about track duty with your Boss.
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