The Vs. Thread

[Formula51]

Those Motortrend Numbers were a little off. These are the actual numbers.

0-60mph: 3.5
1/4 mile: 11.5 @ 127.1
Lateral Accel: 1.05 Avg 1.18 Best
60-0mph: 104ft
weight: 3147lbs
weight dist.: 51/49
EPA: 19/28
Price as tested: $65,800

I am very pleased with the acceleration, but a little disappointed in the braking distance. 104ft makes it a foot shorter than the C5 Z06, but as this is the first test, I think we will see some better numbers in future. I really wish they would put some good tires on the Vette. Can you imagine the track times, g's, and braking distances then!?!?!

FGT 6.4lb/hp
Z06 6.2lb/hp

FGT vs. Z06
0-60mph: 3.3 vs. 3.5
0-100mph: 7.4 vs. 7.9 (Z06 time from C&D, dont have MT's)
60-0mph: 110ft vs. 104ft
1/4 mile time: 11.2 vs. 11.5
1/4 mile speed: 131 vs 127
Top speed: 205mph vs. 198mph (GM claim for the Z06, yet to be tested)
Lateral G's: 0.99 vs. 1.05 (assuming the .99 is an average)
weight: 3480lb vs. 3147lb
weight dist.: ?47/53? vs. 51/49
EPA: ??/?? vs. 19/28 (whats the FGT mileage?)
price: ~150,000 vs. 65,800 (anyone have exact FGT MSRP, no options)


Keep in mind that this is the first test of the Z06 vs. the best test of the FGT over an entire year. The two cars are absolutely competitors!

 

[Big 8]

You are missing so much Big8. The FGT's heat soak, weight, and less than impressive stopping distances compared to its competitors will really hurt it on a long track like the Ring. You mentioned all these track the FGT has been too, you do know it went to those tracks for PHOTO SHOOTS. Try and find me some lap times from those tracks (post your links), no one has been able to find me any so far and I really want to find them.

The FGT and the Z06 are actually very different when it comes to important track characteristics. They have different weight distribution, the FGT is heavier, the Z06 stops faster and its brakes are proven not to fade, the Z06 is NA which helps eliminate heat soak. Drag strip numbers tell you very little about what the car will do on the track. We cant do anything but guess at how these two cars would compare on the track until someone tests them.

I have not heard anything about a Z06 that ran a time comparable to the CGT at the ring? The stock Z06 on stock tires ran 7:42.9 at Nurburgring.

I will look for the times tonight when I get home. The car has posted faster times then many of its competitors on a road course including the new F430. I would also mention in everything I have read about the car not once has there been a complaint or mention of heat soak. Not once. ( yes one guys spit up its coolent at Hockenhiem?) Plus I would add that 8 min of WOT isnt going to experience a ton of heat soak. The cars ducted to all get out and at 100-175 mph hot air isnt going hold in the engine bay for long. The car also dynos in at 520 plus WHP? Thats closer to 600 crank so say it gave up fifty to heat soak its still 550 hp car?

Brake fade Z06 vs FORD GT, Whos to say? Arnt both Brembo units? Plus the GT's earns a hell of a lot of praise and in numerous test out breaks Porsches PCCBs. ( Obviously the PCCBs get better as they go) But the fact is the car has great breaks.


Lastly everyone here is clamering to the Carrera GTs 7:35 time? I have said it before thats with Walter behind the wheel. I dont care who you get Schuee himself would not be faster then Rohl at the ring in a Carrera GT. No body else in the world will match that mans time in the same car. Nobody!

Dont get me wrong I am not saying for one second that the FGT would be faster, but what I am saying is it is a supercar that would put up super car performance numbers at the ring.

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

call me nuts but i think the Z06 will beat the GT on nearly any race track. they are really close performance wise yet we already know the Z06 can brake better and its actually been tuned at the nurb. just because they may have the same brand brakes(or same brakes all together even) doesnt mean that they will brake evenly. the Z has a, what, 2-300lb advantage? now the weight distribution can be argued(some say mid is better, others say front...). we already know that the carrera GT is faster than the GT and, more than likely, faster than the Z(although the Z will give it a little better competition due to the brakes and handling tune). dude, just give it up the ford GT is not the best car to touch pavement. im as big a fan as any one else here(or else i wouldnt be here) but you gotta know when your wrong. now these arent solid numbers for the Z since its only the first 2 tests and, like the GT, it really helps when theres numbers from more than just those 2 tests. i still say the Z has it though even if you dont like chevy, dont like the corvette, dont think they can sell a car with this much performance for this price, what ever other reason, etc.

 

[Big 8]

call me nuts but i think the Z06 will beat the GT on nearly any race track. they are really close performance wise yet we already know the Z06 can brake better and its actually been tuned at the nurb. just because they may have the same brand brakes(or same brakes all together even) doesnt mean that they will brake evenly. the Z has a, what, 2-300lb advantage? now the weight distribution can be argued(some say mid is better, others say front...). we already know that the carrera GT is faster than the GT and, more than likely, faster than the Z(although the Z will give it a little better competition due to the brakes and handling tune). dude, just give it up the ford GT is not the best car to touch pavement. im as big a fan as any one else here(or else i wouldnt be here) but you gotta know when your wrong. now these arent solid numbers for the Z since its only the first 2 tests and, like the GT, it really helps when theres numbers from more than just those 2 tests. i still say the Z has it though even if you dont like chevy, dont like the corvette, dont think they can sell a car with this much performance for this price, what ever other reason, etc.

Like or dislike has nothing to do with it. I think the Z06 will be one if not the best performance cars in the world and factor in price and its a done deal. What I am simply saying is what I said above the Ford GT is a super car. Its the same car that put to shame a GT3 that has run 7:50s at the ring? Its raped the Challenge stradle which is no easy feat and beats the F430 on a road course. As well as a gallardo. I have never said the FORD gt is the best to touch pavement. IMO it is because of the way it looks and other factors not measured in performance numbers. But thats just my opinion.
Fact is what it will and wont do at the ring is also my opinion and in all honesty its also just everyone elses opinion. Heat soak, tires, 200 or three hundred pound advantage, its all open to debate. I have also said I dont think it would ever beat the CGTs time. I dont think at this point any car could because of the fact the CGT was tunned for the ring and Rohrl drove it at the thing.

But like I have said if you think the Ford Gt would falter and stumble at the ring your nuts!

 

[Big 8]

OK just have to come clean. Rohrl ran a 7:28 at the ring. I dont think any other driver will ever beat that time? ( in a carrera GT)

Looking at the difference a driver makes the time for the Merc SLR by sport auto 7:52 the time for a ring master like Klaus Ludwig works Merc driver 7:40, 12 seconds!

I do not think the Ford GT has a 7:28 lap in it. I believe it could best Rohrl's GT3 best of 7:49 for sure. With a great driver I would bet on Ludwigs SLR times. 7:40 area.

 

[GTSpartan]

I do not think the Ford GT has a 7:28 lap in it. I believe it could best Rohrl's GT3 best of 7:49 for sure. With a great driver I would bet on Ludwigs SLR times. 7:40 area.

Sorry man, no way 7:40

 

[Formula51]

I agree, no way a 7:40 for the Ford GT.

Now, heres my opinion on why no 7:40. For the Top Gear junkies, I am certianly not one, they tested the McLaren SLR faster than the FGT on their test track and the McLaren ran 7:40 in the hands of a very skilled driver.

My line of thought.....The FGT has relatively similar acceleration numbers to the Z06 from 0-150mph or so, yet the Z06 has a better weight distribution, was developed at the Ring, holds higher lateral G's in tests, and most importantly has a higher slalom speed and stops shorter. If we assumed that both the FGT and the Z06 have zero or equal brake fade throughout a lap, then 110ft for the GT and 104ft for the Z06 translates into roughly a half a car length a turn if that braking distance relationship is linear. Let me repeat that, roughly half a car length a turn. Now, with these factors, and the few previous tests I am puting the FGT between 7:45 and 7:49.

Who know's, maybe one day I will find out if I am close.

 

[fordification]

and the Z06 has 6-piston, GT has 4. so advantage vette for sure.
one other consideration is taking the average mph on a comparable car for comparison.
say up to 105mph x number of straights (assuming linear for both). ~7.4(FGT) vs 7.9(Z06). ~1/2 car length x how many straights? what track?

 

[fordification]

kind of offtopic a little but I wonder if they based the Z06 price on GM financial situation? with all the exotic materials and topend parts used, I can't see much of a profit margin.
\
never knew this before but the rear shell on the GT is carbon fiber. all the weight must be from all the structural reinforcement for the torque I'm guessing.

 

[fordification]

is there tc on the z06? guess we need some reviews as to how the car reacts with the driver since some are very difficult as the power goes up and the weight goes down. ex.viper
we know Jan Magnusen can drive it.

 

[Big 8]

Sorry man, no way 7:40

Only time will tell? The GT had a 2.4 second advantage over the GT3 at Gingerman. Thats a small tight little course which would strain the brakes and not allow the Ford to employ its larger power curve. The GT3 had the PCCBs. As well as the pilot cup R rubber. It Had two seconds plus on Challenge straddle with R-comp rubber as well, P zero Corsas. If the GT3 can peg a 7:49 at the ring and lose to the FGT on a tight course by more then two seconds? I see no reaason at all that the FGT couldnt run close to a 7:40 :shrug: Besting the GT3 at the ring by 9 seconds.

The FGT also bested The F430 with Better brakes and R comp rubber on the Willow Springs course. 1.7 Miles and Bested the Porsche Turbo again equipped with PCCB. Six pots versus Four? Doesnt matter much here. Swept area copound of the pads and contact patch and rubber are far more note worthy then piston count.

In straight up braking tests the car is within feet of the CGT, and Enzo.

The Ford can out accelerate the Porsche GT3, its up close to 200 HP, it handles better, lower coifficent of drag, superior power band, is easier to drive and it out brakes the car. On a short course of about 1.5 miles its beats the Carrera GT3 by 2.4 seconds! You honestly believe adding some huge long straights over 8 miles at the ring would reduce the FGT's advantages :shrug: No Way! If anything it would give the Ford a greater advantage. The defeat of the Carrera GT3 would be by a greater margin then it were at the short course.

 

[GTSpartan]

Only time will tell? The GT had a 2.4 second advantage over the GT3 at Gingerman. Thats a small tight little course which would strain the brakes and not allow the Ford to employ its larger power curve. The GT3 had the PCCBs. As well as the pilot cup R rubber. It Had two seconds plus on Challenge straddle with R-comp rubber as well, P zero Corsas. If the GT3 can peg a 7:49 at the ring and lose to the FGT on a tight course by more then two seconds? I see no reaason at all that the FGT couldnt run close to a 7:40 :shrug: Besting the GT3 at the ring by 9 seconds.

The FGT also bested The F430 with Better brakes and R comp rubber on the Willow Springs course. 1.7 Miles and Bested the Porsche Turbo again equipped with PCCB. Six pots versus Four? Doesnt matter much here. Swept area copound of the pads and contact patch and rubber are far more note worthy then piston count.

In straight up braking tests the car is within feet of the CGT, and Enzo.

The Ford can out accelerate the Porsche GT3, its up close to 200 HP, it handles better, lower coifficent of drag, superior power band, is easier to drive and it out brakes the car. On a short course of about 1.5 miles its beats the Carrera GT3 by 2.4 seconds! You honestly believe adding some huge long straights over 8 miles at the ring would reduce the FGT's advantages :shrug: No Way! If anything it would give the Ford a greater advantage. The defeat of the Carrera GT3 would be by a greater margin then it were at the short course.

I don't care, no way 7:40 and I've been to Gingerman many times and there would be no comparision between the two.

If I remember correctly that was when the GT first came out and was REALLY fast, so it was probably the same "ringer" car that M/T had when it tested it against the Enzo & CGT. Every recent test with the GT against the F430 is VERY close on the road course and the F430 is way down on power compared to the GT. I just have a gut feeling that the Z06 is just faster on a road course. They did a lot more testing and spent a lot more money on development than the GT program, and it is much more crucial for the vette to be successful than the GT

 

[Big 8]

I don't care, no way 7:40 and I've been to Gingerman many times and there would be no comparision between the two.

If I remember correctly that was when the GT first came out and was REALLY fast, so it was probably the same "ringer" car that M/T had when it tested it against the Enzo & CGT. Every recent test with the GT against the F430 is VERY close on the road course and the F430 is way down on power compared to the GT. I just have a gut feeling that the Z06 is just faster on a road course. They did a lot more testing and spent a lot more money on development than the GT program, and it is much more crucial for the vette to be successful than the GT

Well I dont know how a lot of that fits in here? Comparing Gingerman to the ring? Ya I agree, buts its all we have and a car that supposedly went 7:49 The GT3 at the ring was walked on by the Ford. While I havent been to Gingerman I have been on the ring? I cant say other then they are both road courses and one is much longer. MT test against the CGT and ENZO was a fleet press car. Ringer? As they stated at the end of the articale, the car was driven to Texas by a car jocky while the enzo and CGT were boxed up for the truck ride home. Not sure why you would build a ringer for a 10,000 mile press fleet car?

The F430 is close to 500 hp and is a far sharper instrument then the 360M or 360CS ever dreamed of being. Even though its within hairs, the Ford has beaten it as well. Even when you use the secret lauch modes? :shrug: The F430 was bested on the course at Willow. 1.7 miles. As you stated the F430 is way down on power its at 490HP? Thats 15 away from the Z06???? and 60 away from the Ford. Thro in a nice 3/4 mile straight and let the Ford use that extra power ( the ring) versus not allowing it too (willow) and its still came out on top.

I am not atttempting to argue that one car is faster then the other. Way too many variables. The only thing I am trying to say is that the FORD gt can more then hold its own. It has it will continue to do so and we all know that youll see head to heads very soon with the Z06. However I would venture it would be arguable that the Z06 is going to trounce the F430 on a road course?

I am also of the opinion that one can deduce a lot from what is known. The FGT walked the GT3 at Gingerman. Was it a ringer? Its times that test were 11.7 at 128 and 3.7 to sixty. Pleanty of cars (ford gt's) have had the same if not better times. The Porsche wore R comp rubber and PCCBs. The Ford was asked to kick its ass inside a box (gingerman) and it did. The Ford GT can out accelerate, out brake, out slalom, out grip, the Porsche GT3. It beats it on a short road course. You put it on the ring, give it the room to open up and stretch its leggs and its simply going to do what it did before but even better. The ring is long and technical, but its not magical. Its just another race track. I think that the Ford GT has it in it to best the Porsche GT3 time of 7:49 with out a doubt!

Corvette I have no idea? The Blue car is still said to be a super charged proto type. Numerous articales have stated that after the numbers were published and the claims made it was a stocker?

Which car will be faster? I dont really know, Like I said way too many variables. Driver being the biggest. What is the car capeable of? To me thats the question. To me I think the Ford GT is quite capeable of leaving the Porsche GT3 and its 7:49 behind it. op:

 

[Big 8]

and the Z06 has 6-piston, GT has 4. so advantage vette for sure.
one other consideration is taking the average mph on a comparable car for comparison.
say up to 105mph x number of straights (assuming linear for both). ~7.4(FGT) vs 7.9(Z06). ~1/2 car length x how many straights? what track?

The F430 has six pots front and rear, ceramic composites and it couldnt lap faster the the Ford at Willow springs? :shrug:

 

[fordification]

take a ride in the new Z06 at the ring. M/T test.

 

[Formula51]

is there tc on the z06? guess we need some reviews as to how the car reacts with the driver since some are very difficult as the power goes up and the weight goes down. ex.viper
we know Jan Magnusen can drive it.

Yes there is traction control and it has a competition mode that will let the car get a little slideways, but then reel you back in and keep you on the track. Car and Driver's article should give you an idea. They were very pleased with it.

 

[Formula51]

Ford GT can out accelerate, out brake, out slalom, out grip, the Porsche GT3. It beats it on a short road course. You put it on the ring, give it the room to open up and stretch its leggs and its simply going to do what it did before but even better. The ring is long and technical, but its not magical. Its just another race track. I think that the Ford GT has it in it to best the Porsche GT3 time of 7:49 with out a doubt!

Corvette I have no idea? The Blue car is still said to be a super charged proto type. Numerous articales have stated that after the numbers were published and the claims made it was a stocker?

Remember, that in the tests thus far, the Z06 can essentially equal the acceleration of the GT (depending on what GT test you go with), out brake, out slalom, and out grip the Ford GT. Therefore it would likely fall in my 7:45 to 7:49 range.

The blue car has been confirmed and reported by Dave Hill himself as a stock Z06 on stock tires. The early articles were media crap. The Blue Devil does not exist remember, but when it does, expect it to challenge the Carrera GT!

 

[FordGTGuy]

lmfao so you think just because you supercharge a car that it makes it faster on the ring?, What about wheelspin, suspension, and everything else that could be turned bad if that extra power is let out. They would have to make a whole new tune just to compensate. And it wouldn't be a supercar it would be a hypercar then the Saleen S7 will just kick its ass. The Top Gear time on the samll track was very biased since he drove the car like it was a golf kart.

 

[fordification]

I'm pretty sure the S7 was never tested on top gear.

 

[fordification]

not sure if this is relevant but the Z06 bested 1.18g at the ring and the GT hit 1.34 at willow during near 100f temps. the willow track is the only test of the GT I have numbers on so..